The Official 'Trade Brady' Debate Thread - Do Not Start Another One

[scout]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

Right, and when people post "trade Seymour" threads, or "we should sign X player that some crappy team just cut (probably because the poster recognized their name based on the fact that the player was pretty good 5 years ago)" those threads get called out for being dumb too. If anything, it should actually be pretty telling that the majority of us find this thread even more stupid than those ones.

How is this thread stupid? Why is it stupid to look at ALL of your options? The majority of posts ridiculing a trade have holes in their reasoning. Scroll up:
Steeler says "Brady is the greatest qb ever to play" (it's an opinion, it's nice, kind, etc, but does not mean another championship).
"he's not going out there and single handley beat teams like Brady has". (which is why we won the last Super Bowl, correct).
"trade Larry Bird" yada, yada. (never mind the numerous other trades of megastars which brought championships).
"Brady has been refining his long ball........" (so Matt Cassel doesn't get to refine his longball?)
"my eyes tell me Brady was a better qb in 2001 then Cassel" ( everyone has their opinion, it doesn't trump a person's opinion to look at trade options).
"the day that Brady is no longer a Patriot will truly suck...worse day to be a Patriot fan in history" ( no emotion there, I cherish the glory days but would rather deal with the cold hard facts of moving on if that is an option).

 

[BradyFTW!]

I am a fan of the New England Patriots football team. The New England Patriots, that is who I am a fan of.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Bob Kraft. I was a fan of the team before Kraft bought the team and will continue to be a fan if he sells it. This is not to say I will not forever be greatfull to him for what he has done for this team, I will be. But if Kraft was to sell the Patriots and then a few years later buy the Colts, I am still rooting for the Patriots. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Scott Pioli. I was a fan of the Patriots before Scott was hired. I appreciate all he has done for New England and wish him well. But to the extend his drafting well hurts the Patriots drafting I wish him only misery and busts. I hope each and every meeting between KC and NEP is heartwrenchingly horrible for him to watch as his team gets destroyed by 50 or more points. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Bill Belichick. I hated Bill Belichick when he was the defensive coordinator for the New York Jets. My love for the genius with poor fashion sense is solely based on him being the coach of the New England Patriots. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Adam Vinertari. I rooted for him when he won us superbowls and root against him now that he is Colt. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Wes Welker. When he was playing for the Dolphins, I hated that little sneak that our secondary could not cover. Only now that he is a Patriot do I love our little sneak. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

Are you a fan of Tom Brady or a fan of the New England Patriots?

First off, I want 30 seconds of my life back. Secondly, how can a fan of the New England Patriots NOT be a fan of Tom Brady? He's the best player to ever put on a Patriots uniform, and has led our team to four Super Bowls and 3 lombardis. If you're not a fan of Tom Brady, then you're not a fan of the Patriots.

That said, if letting him go was the right thing for the team, I'd support it. But it very obviously isn't. The fact that there are people on this thread suggesting otherwise is pretty astounding. We have the best QB in the history of the game, and we still have fans suggesting that we might be better off with Cassel over the long term. You'd rather have a 26 year old one-year starter who played pretty well, all things considered, as opposed to a 31 year old HOF QB who is in his prime, completed the best statistical season in NFL history exactly one year ago, and is rehabbing from an injury that QBs come back from successfully every year. How does that not sound crazy to you? I just don't get it...

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

"the day that Brady is no longer a Patriot will truly suck...worse day to be a Patriot fan in history" ( no emotion there, I cherish the glory days but would rather deal with the cold hard facts of moving on if that is an option).

Since I actually posted this one, I'll comment on it. It's called context. Go read the entire post. I explicitly point out that this sentiment has absolutely nothing to do with why Brady should not be traded. I literally could not have been more explicit about that.

It sucked when the Sox didn't resign Pedro- in a lot of ways, it was a miserable day to be a Sox fan... but it was the right move. It sucked when the Sox traded Nomar... but it was the right move. It sucked when Bird retired... but it was better for everyone involved. It sucked when Adam Vinatieri signed with the Colts... but it was the right move.

You're assuming that everyone else is incapable of separating their emotions as fans from good business sense, but we're very clearly not. In fact, we've gone very far out of our way to show concretely and beyond legitimate dispute that it would be undeniably dumb to take Cassel over Brady, without ever once invoking emotion. That's an entirely separate argument, and one that a couple of us responded to separately when it was posed to us.

Keep building your straw men, though- it's overwhelmingly clear that you have absolutely no evidence to back up a single word that you're saying, so that's what you have to resort to.

 

[Lifer]

Brady. Hes just a system QB. All He can do is dink and dunk. Hes overated. lets release him. lets put in O'Connell.
One time I was watching a Patriots game and Brady missed an open receiver. Cost us a touchdown. He sucks. I wish we had a real QB in there like Steve Grogan.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

If you're not a fan of Tom Brady, then you're not a fan of the Patriots.

At one time couldn't the same be said of Scott Pioli, Drew Bledsoe, Adam Vinateri, and Bill Parcells.

 

[BradyFTW!]

At one time couldn't the same be said of Scott Pioli, Drew Bledsoe, Adam Vinateri, and Bill Parcells.

Not really. Maybe in Bledsoe's case (and I am a big Bledsoe fan, as all Pats fans should be), but Pioli, Vinatieri, and Parcells all chose to leave. Nice try though, you almost made a point.

 

[Lifer]

At one time couldn't the same be said of Scott Pioli, Drew Bledsoe, Adam Vinateri, and Bill Parcells.

No. comparing those guys to Brady is like comparing McHale and DJ and Parish to Larry Bird. Some guys, like Brady and Bird transend the others.

 

[BradyManny]

At one time couldn't the same be said of Scott Pioli, Drew Bledsoe, Adam Vinateri, and Bill Parcells.

I'm still a fan of Bledsoe, Willie, Troy, etc. I have favorite players, and they remain my favorites whether they still play for the Pats or another team (or just retired in Troy's case). Its normal.

 

[Grizzafted]

For a while mid-season I was thinking that we should keep Cassel, but now that the dust settled and McDaniels/Pioli is gone, we need Brady back. Here's hoping that knee gets better. We need the time to get a good OC in place, maybe draft someone and enjoy the remaining 3-4 years of brady (hopefully) that we have and begin grooming someone.

I think we will have a competitive team for some time, but QB moving into the future is going to become a question mark. It's going to be time to start thinking about the post-brady era, but it's not quite yet.

Here's in solidarity with that ACL, Tommy.

 

[Lifer]

For a while mid-season I was thinking that we should keep Cassel, but now that the dust settled and McDaniels/Pioli is gone, we need Brady back. Here's hoping that knee gets better. We need the time to get a good OC in place, maybe draft someone and enjoy the remaining 3-4 years of brady (hopefully) that we have and begin grooming someone.

I think we will have a competitive team for some time, but QB moving into the future is going to become a question mark. It's going to be time to start thinking about the post-brady era, but it's not quite yet.

Here's in solidarity with that ACL, Tommy.

I agree. I think Tom Brady would make a good quarterback for the New England Patriots. I also hope his knee gets better. And at this draft I think a good strategy for the Patriots would be too draft some good, young players.

But still. I think a real key player for this team is Tom Brady. He's good.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It is an unreasonable comparison b/c Cassel was taking over for the most explosive passing offense in history stacked with receiving weapons.

Then there is no possible way to compare not merely 2007 Brady and 2008 Cassel, but to compare Brady and Cassel at all. Brady, about as pure a pocket passer as you can get versus the far more mobile Cassel; Brady with far more game experience v. Cassel with more pro-style training but basically zero in-game experience; Cassel playing with a "Who's Who" of playmakers v. Brady playing with "Who's That" receivers.

And, for the record, I'm not in favor of trading Brady.

 

[groganbootleg]

See, inherent in your statement is that Brady is comparable to Bledsoe and Kosar. If you honestly think that, then you know absolutely nothing about football.

Yawn......fanboys.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

How is this thread stupid? Why is it stupid to look at ALL of your options? The majority of posts ridiculing a trade have holes in their reasoning. Scroll up:
Steeler says "Brady is the greatest qb ever to play" (it's an opinion, it's nice, kind, etc, but does not mean another championship).
"he's not going out there and single handley beat teams like Brady has". (which is why we won the last Super Bowl, correct).
"trade Larry Bird" yada, yada. (never mind the numerous other trades of megastars which brought championships).
"Brady has been refining his long ball........" (so Matt Cassel doesn't get to refine his longball?)
"my eyes tell me Brady was a better qb in 2001 then Cassel" ( everyone has their opinion, it doesn't trump a person's opinion to look at trade options).
"the day that Brady is no longer a Patriot will truly suck...worse day to be a Patriot fan in history" ( no emotion there, I cherish the glory days but would rather deal with the cold hard facts of moving on if that is an option).

Simple question #1: When was the last time in the NFL that a player coming off ACL surgery was traded before that player had gotten back on the field and played, and what was gotten in return?

Simple question #2: When was the last time in the NFL that the reigning MVP was traded after blowing out his knee the following season and requiring acl surgery, and what was gotten in return?

Simple question #3: How many NFL trades in the past decade have been made with the physical waived, and what was gotten in return?

Simple question #4: What is the trade value of Tom Brady right now, and where is your evidence that backs up your assertion of that value?

Simple question #5: What is the trade value of Matt Cassel right now, and where is your evidence that backs up your assertion of that value?

Simple question #6: What was New England's record against playoff teams this season with Cassel as the quarterback?

Simple question #7: What was New England's record against playoff teams last season with Brady as the quarterback?

Simple question #8: What is Matt Cassel's playoff record as a starter in the NFL?

Simple question #9: What was the winning percentage of the Patriots' Non-Division opponents this season?

Simple question #10: What was the winning percentage of the Patriots' Non-Division opponents last season?

Simple question #11: In NFL football, is 16-0 better than 11-5, or is 11-5 better than 16-0?

 

[slash83]

Whoever thinks Brady freaking Tom Brady should be traded is fukn dumb and deserves to be slapped.

 

[scout]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

Simple question #1: When was the last time in the NFL that a player coming off ACL surgery was traded before that player had gotten back on the field and played, and was was gotten in return? The trade does not happen unless the player passes a physical. It's hypothetical as is almost everything on this board.

Simple question #2: When was the last time in the NFL that the reigning MVP was traded after blowing out his knee the following season and requiring acl surgery, and what was gotten in return? See the above answer.

Simple question #3: How many NFL trades in the past decade have been made with the physical waived, and what was gotten in return? See the above answer.

Simple question #4: What is the trade value of Tom Brady right now, and where is your evidence that backs up your assertion of that value? Same answer as next question.

Simple question #5: What is the trade value of Matt Cassel right now, and where is your evidence that backs up your assertion of that value? I don't know, nor do I know Brady's. The point being I'd look at both options.

Simple question #6: What was New England's record against playoff teams this season with Cassel as the quarterback? I was really surprised at Cassel's showing against playoff teams given his vast experience...........oh right, he was basically a rookie. My bad.

Simple question #7: What was New England's record against playoff teams last season with Brady as the quarterback? Would that include the Giants?

Simple question #8: What is Matt Cassel's playoff record as a starter in the NFL? Hmmmmm, here's a smart ass answer. How many Super Bowls has Cassel lost?

Simple question #9: What was the winning percentage of the Patriots' Non-Division opponents this season? Don't know, don't really care.

Simple question #10: What was the winning percentage of the Patriots' Non-Division opponents last season? Don't know, don't really care.

Simple question #11: In NFL football, is 16-0 better than 11-5, or is 11-5 better than 16-0?

Simple? Was Brady the only player injured this season? Defense wins championships and the Patriots were banged up more on defense then offense. Unless of course, your of the opinion that offense rules (Go Oklahoma!).

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

Simple? Was Brady the only player injured this season? Defense wins championships and the Patriots were banged up more on defense then offense. Unless of course, your of the opinion that offense rules (Go Oklahoma!).

The questions are, indeed, simple. You claim you want to see actual discussion, let's get those answers instead of the "I don't care" nonsense. After all, you're pissing and moaning about wanting a real discussion, surely you can answer 11 simple questions.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

Simple? Was Brady the only player injured this season? Defense wins championships and the Patriots were banged up more on defense then offense. Unless of course, your of the opinion that offense rules (Go Oklahoma!).

How else would you explain it? Adalius was hurt last year too, Seymour was finally healthy... you think Asante and Gay were worth 5 games?

If you're going to try to argue that Brady wasn't the main reason why the Pats were 5 games worse, then I hope for your sake that you're just being difficult.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

How else would you explain it? Adalius was hurt last year too, Seymour was finally healthy... you think Asante and Gay were worth 5 games?

If you're going to try to argue that Brady wasn't the main reason why the Pats were 5 games worse, then I hope for your sake that you're just being difficult.

The question is not was Brady better in 2007 than Cassel was in 2008. The question is who will be better in 2009-2015. A Brady without an ACL & MCL or Cassel with more experience.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

The question is not was Brady better in 2007 than Cassel was in 2008. The question is who will be better in 2009-2015. A Brady without an ACL & MCL or Cassel with more experience.

No, that's not the question, and it never has been. What is so difficult about this?

Brady ? tradeable

 

[slash83]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

The question is not was Brady better in 2007 than Cassel was in 2008. The question is who will be better in 2009-2015. A Brady without an ACL & MCL or Cassel with more experience.

We've seen what Brady could do without star receivers (Branch, Givens), what do you think Cassel would look like without Moss and Welker? I guruantee you he would'nt make Branch and Givens look as good as Brady made them look those years.