The Official 'Trade Brady' Debate Thread - Do Not Start Another One

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: If we got #1 pick for Brady - what would BB do?

It's not hypocrisy, and it's not your call. You don't own the site. Ian chose to do it, and he gave his reasons for doing so.

As for the discussion, you have had the ability to discuss that idiocy all along. Instead, you've decided to go the route of turning yourself from one of the best posters on the site into a clown.

says the guy who leads by example

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: If we got #1 pick for Brady - what would BB do?

Two things.

One, I would like to have an intelligent conversation about the possibility of trading Brady and keeping Cassel long term. I am not saying that I am committed to that route, but anyone who doesn't think BB is seriously considering it is a fool. Not saying that is the route he will take but BB is not dismissing as the joke than many on this board has. Instead of allowing that conversation to occur the mods have stiffled that discussion by creating a thread that is unmanageable with all the trollish posts contained therein.

Two, while I don't believe we need one single thread on a topic that spans 2 months. There is absolutely no reason for four threads a day on the potential Cassel trade.

My method of protest is to duplicate the multiple trade Cassel threads word for word as trade Brady thread. The merging of one and not the other shows the utter hypocrisy going on.

sorry, dude.......no chance............you'll get crushed by the 'intelligentsia'

I simply believe that cassel goes to the highest bidder regardless of brady's condition.......with a year in the system, o'connell will be an improvement over cassel

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

Again, THERE ARE NO POTENTIAL SUITORS FOR BRADY RIGHT NOW SO THIS WHOLE DISCUSSION IS MOOT. right now no one--including McDaniels, Pioli, OR BB for that matter knows what sort of player Tom Brady will be when he next walks onto the field.

Thank god that we are "stuck" with Tom until he gets into game situations and either shows that he still has it [and if he does, how do you possibly trade him?], or that he's not ready to go [in which case no team in their right mind would trade for him].

Right now the only relevant discussion is what kind of plan B the Pats are going to come up with if needed.

There are plenty of potential suitors. Any team without a franchise QB and who has $8 million in cap space that they don't have plans for is a potential suitor for a deal such as.....

2009 3th round draft pick to NE

If in 2009 Brady does not take a single snap in 2010 that team gets NE 4th round draft pick

In 2010 NE gets an additional draft pick based on % of snaps in 2009
10%+ 3 rd round
40%+ 2nd round
60% + 1str round
In 2011 NE gets an additional draft pick based on % of snaps in 2010
10%+ 3 rd round
40%+ 2nd round
60% + 1str round
In 2012 NE gets an additional draft pick based on % of snaps in 2010
20%+ 3 rd round
50%+ 2nd round
70% + 1str round

 

[scout]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

Yes, it would be. You're finally starting to figure it out.

Nobody ever stated on this thread that we should trade Brady. The posts have wondered what Brady would bring in a trade. For keeping those options open, people have been branded moronic, not intelligent in football matters, disloyal to the Patriots, trolls, etc.
Congragulations on having a closed mind, not looking outside the box, doing things the same way, because that's the way we've always done things, having the only opinion that is fact, etc, etc.
I'm glad to have a different opinion on this matter and honestly am pretty amused by the slander.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

There are plenty of potential suitors. Any team without a franchise QB and who has $8 million in cap space that they don't have plans for is a potential suitor for a deal such as.....

2009 3th round draft pick to NE

If in 2009 Brady does not take a single snap in 2010 that team gets NE 4th round draft pick

In 2010 NE gets an additional draft pick based on % of snaps in 2009
10%+ 3 rd round
40%+ 2nd round
60% + 1str round
In 2011 NE gets an additional draft pick based on % of snaps in 2010
10%+ 3 rd round
40%+ 2nd round
60% + 1str round
In 2012 NE gets an additional draft pick based on % of snaps in 2010
20%+ 3 rd round
50%+ 2nd round
70% + 1str round

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

There are plenty of potential suitors. Any team without a franchise QB and who has $8 million in cap space that they don't have plans for is a potential suitor for a deal such as.....

2009 3th round draft pick to NE

If in 2009 Brady does not take a single snap in 2010 that team gets NE 4th round draft pick

In 2010 NE gets an additional draft pick based on % of snaps in 2009
10%+ 3 rd round
40%+ 2nd round
60% + 1str round
<etc.>

With all due respect, if BB agreed to trade Brady for a deal where the only absolute guarantee was a 3rd in 2009 (and about $1M in cap savings), I don't think Kraft would have to worry about firing him; I think angry Patriots fans would tear him limb from limb first.

 

[JSn]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

With all due respect, if BB agreed to trade Brady for a deal where the only absolute guarantee was a 3rd in 2009 (and about $1M in cap savings), I don't think Kraft would have to worry about firing him; I think angry Patriots fans would tear him limb from limb first.

But it makes a pretty good point. Cassel is worth more in trade than Brady in the short term.

Sports teams, especially one where athletes have a short shelf-life, need to always think about winning now AND winning in the future. So which QB has better chances of helping us to a Superbowl in '10 ('09 season)? Tough one. If Brady is full strength, he does, obviously. If he's out for even half the season, I'd rather see Cassel play the whole year.

Who gives the team a better chance of getting a superbowl in five years?

Brady @ 38 or Cassel @ 33? At that point, I'd be surprised if Tom hadn't retired, but Cassel would be around the QB sweet spot and Tom would be old for the position. My hunch is he'd still be great at that age, but I don't know that for sure.

The team has a lot more to think about than "Gosh, Tom is a swell QB, greatest ever, (well, back in 2007) and we mustn't think of moving on."

This is major moment in football history folks. It won't be evaluable for about 3-5 years, but these decisions (pup/play for Brady, who and who with to trade either QB, retain 2 starting QB's, etc...) are monstrous and not as simple as ANY of us break them down to be. The proof is in the fact that most of the people who won't even look at the Trade Brady scenario only respond emotionally.

I did say most, because I believe a healthy Brady is the best way to proceed from a marketing standpoint and MAYBE a competition stand-point. Still, Tom's return would require some adjustment by the players again. He can't save a bad O-Line by sprinting for a first down or running away from a Linebacker. He can however squeeze passes into the deep area of the field and make highlight reels.

After watching Cassel deal with pressure and do all he could to salvage that Jets game, I don't believe either one is more clutch than the other, and I think Brady wins the battle for most by virtue of his ability to appear on highlight reels with the deep ball.

I'm ranting now, but I'm just saying, it's not a simple decision like some of the screamers here would like to make it out to be.

 

[swheeler23]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

But it makes a pretty good point. Cassel is worth more in trade than Brady in the short term.

Sports teams, especially one where athletes have a short shelf-life, need to always think about winning now AND winning in the future. So which QB has better chances of helping us to a Superbowl in '10 ('09 season)? Tough one. If Brady is full strength, he does, obviously. If he's out for even half the season, I'd rather see Cassel play the whole year.

Who gives the team a better chance of getting a superbowl in five years?

Brady @ 38 or Cassel @ 33? At that point, I'd be surprised if Tom hadn't retired, but Cassel would be around the QB sweet spot and Tom would be old for the position. My hunch is he'd still be great at that age, but I don't know that for sure.

The team has a lot more to think about than "Gosh, Tom is a swell QB, greatest ever, (well, back in 2007) and we mustn't think of moving on."

This is major moment in football history folks. It won't be evaluable for about 3-5 years, but these decisions (pup/play for Brady, who and who with to trade either QB, retain 2 starting QB's, etc...) are monstrous and not as simple as ANY of us break them down to be. The proof is in the fact that most of the people who won't even look at the Trade Brady scenario only respond emotionally.

I did say most, because I believe a healthy Brady is the best way to proceed from a marketing standpoint and MAYBE a competition stand-point. Still, Tom's return would require some adjustment by the players again. He can't save a bad O-Line by sprinting for a first down or running away from a Linebacker. He can however squeeze passes into the deep area of the field and make highlight reels.

After watching Cassel deal with pressure and do all he could to salvage that Jets game, I don't believe either one is more clutch than the other, and I think Brady wins the battle for most by virtue of his ability to appear on highlight reels with the deep ball.

I'm ranting now, but I'm just saying, it's not a simple decision like some of the screamers here would like to make it out to be.

Did you read this?"Patriots rivalry pains Steelers."(In the Boston Herald.) What teams players think says alot. You do not just trade a player like that unless you are sure he is done.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

There are plenty of potential suitors. Any team without a franchise QB and who has $8 million in cap space that they don't have plans for is a potential suitor for a deal such as.....

2009 3th round draft pick to NE

If in 2009 Brady does not take a single snap in 2010 that team gets NE 4th round draft pick

In 2010 NE gets an additional draft pick based on % of snaps in 2009
10%+ 3 rd round
40%+ 2nd round
60% + 1str round
In 2011 NE gets an additional draft pick based on % of snaps in 2010
10%+ 3 rd round
40%+ 2nd round
60% + 1str round
In 2012 NE gets an additional draft pick based on % of snaps in 2010
20%+ 3 rd round
50%+ 2nd round
70% + 1str round

This is precisely the sort of post that shows why this discussion is ridiculous. You, and others hawking this, just keep tossing out numbers without anything approaching a factual basis. Seriously, where are you pulling these numbers/picks from?

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

This is precisely the sort of post that shows why this discussion is ridiculous. You, and others hawking this, just keep tossing out numbers without anything approaching a factual basis. Seriously, where are you pulling these numbers/picks from?

That wasn't meant to be an actual offer sheet, but a potential format to structure a trade.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

With all due respect, if BB agreed to trade Brady for a deal where the only absolute guarantee was a 3rd in 2009 (and about $1M in cap savings), I don't think Kraft would have to worry about firing him; I think angry Patriots fans would tear him limb from limb first.

Yes, I would expect the backlash from the media and angry fans to be greater than from Kraft. Just like it was when BB benched a healthy Probowl QB back in 2001.

 

[JSn]

I hate to put this here as it will get missed by lot's of people, but it'll just get merged if I don't, right?

Here's an article from December 6, 2001 on Brady vs. Bledsoe, before they even entered the playoff's. Some of the screamers here are mis-remembering or ignoring the facts of that trade deal, improbable and unthinkable as it was at the time:

Bledsoe vs. Brady: Who should the Patriots pick? - By Jonathan Cohn - Slate Magazine

Excerpts:

The Bledsoe-Brady controversy is a perfect example of how the introduction of a salary cap has turned NFL conventional wisdom on its head. Indeed, the irony of the situation is that all the Boston talk-radio cranks convinced that Brady is a better quarterback are almost certainly wrong. Sure, the guy has fine mechanics and uncanny poise in the pocket. But despite his torrid start, four teams with solid pass defenses—Buffalo, Denver, Miami, and St. Louis—contained him handily. Brady's rolled up his biggest numbers against the Colts, whose pass defense would have trouble keeping some 1-AA college teams out of the end zone.

Bledsoe, on the other hand, has about as good a stat sheet as you can compile in nine years of professional play. He made the Pro Bowl in his third year and led the Patriots all the way to the Super Bowl in his fourth. In 1995, he became the youngest player ever to throw for 10,000 yards; his current career stats include 136 touchdowns and nearly 30,000 yards. And he's done all this despite an ever-changing roster of coaches that would make George Steinbrenner blush. Belichick is Bledsoe's third head coach; the Pats' current offensive coordinator, Charlie Weis, is his fourth.

Jettisoning Bledsoe would also take his $7.5 million per year contract off the books—Brady makes only $300,000 per year—next season or the season afterward, freeing up money for a desperately needed offensive lineman or two, plus a playmaker at wide receiver. (Because of the complicated rules of the cap, the Patriots could get rid of Bledsoe next year or the year after without taking a debilitating hit, though it depends in part on how they get rid of him.) In other words, you're trading proven greatness at quarterback for four or five starters. Even if Brady turns out to be mediocre, all the extra quality players make the transaction a net winner for the team, and the surest way to turn this year's squad—which is performing far beyond its talents, thanks to good coaching and a bit of luck—into a serious Super Bowl contender.

Here's a quote from a Boston Sports Hub... Blog? Dated Dec. 12, 2001
http://www.bostonsportshub.com/notes_dec01.htm

As a Patriots fan, I can't help but get that bad feeling that whatever the team does with Tom Brady and Drew Bledsoe, it will work out badly. If Bledsoe is traded (or exposed in the expansion draft) he will end up with a good team and win a couple of Superbowls while Tom Brady turns out to be a one-hit wonder. On the other hand, if the Pats trade Brady and keep Bledsoe, Brady will go on to become one of the great quarterbacks for someone else and Bledsoe will continue his slow descent to mediocrity.

I'm not saying anything but that history bears remembering.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

That wasn't meant to be an actual offer sheet, but a potential format to structure a trade.

But the whole point is that you have no basis to even create a potential format. There is NOTHING upon which to build.

 

[BradyManny]

I hate to put this here as it will get missed by lot's of people, but it'll just get merged if I don't, right?

Here's an article from December 6, 2001 on Brady vs. Bledsoe, before they even entered the playoff's. Some of the screamers here are mis-remembering or ignoring the facts of that trade deal, improbable and unthinkable as it was at the time:

Bledsoe vs. Brady: Who should the Patriots pick? - By Jonathan Cohn - Slate Magazine

Excerpts:






Here's a quote from a Boston Sports Hub... Blog? Dated Dec. 12, 2001
BostonSportsHub.com - The Unofficial Home for Boston Sports




I'm not saying anything but that history bears remembering.

I hate to say it b/c you've been a very valuable poster here, but I don't think you were following this team then, and I don't think you have the perspective to talk about it. Bledsoe was 5-11 the year before, started the season off 0-2. Don't get me wrong, I was a huge Bledsoe fan, almost as big a Brady fan as I ended up being, but I was on the Brady bandwagon from pretty early on and pretty much everyone I knew was as well.

Add to that there were rumblings Brady was going to take over the job whether Mo Lewis laid that hit or not. Add to that the team was really struggling, the offense was anemic, and Brady came in and delivered win after win, posting something like the above is not an accurate representation of what transpired in that time period. Comparing the two scenarios shows that you are not understanding the huge differences between the two.

2000/2001: Bledsoe was struggling greatly, Brady came in and flourished.
2007/2008: Brady was flourishing, Cassel came in and did not produce to nearly the same level.

I hate to play the "I was a fan of the team then" card, but I will. Anyone who lived in New England and followed the team in 01 would scoff at the notion you are trying to assert.

 

[JSn]

I hate to play the "I was a fan of the team then" card, but I will. Anyone who lived in New England and followed the team in 01 would scoff at the notion you are trying to assert.

I'm asserting no notion. I'm re-posting stuff from the time it went down.
I'm all about Brady staying, but I wouldn't get emotional or depressed if he WAS moved. That's how I feel about it.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

Yes, I would expect the backlash from the media and angry fans to be greater than from Kraft. Just like it was when BB benched a healthy Probowl QB back in 2001.

Please re-read what I wrote:

With all due respect, if BB agreed to trade Brady for a deal where the only absolute guarantee was a 3rd in 2009 (and about $1M in cap savings), I don't think Kraft would have to worry about firing him; I think angry Patriots fans would tear him limb from limb first.

If Brady isn't healthy enough to pass a physical, he can't be traded. And if he can pass a physical, how could you justify trading him with the only guarantee being a 3rd in 2009? [And, BTW--there's no guarantee that there'll even be a draft in 2012 right now.]

 

[groganbootleg]

I'm not saying anything but that history bears remembering.

This has been tried before in this thread and made no difference to those who simply, adamantly deny that there is even a possibility that BB would even CONSIDER trading Brady even though he's done it twice before (Bledsoe and Kosar).

 

[scout]

I hate to say it b/c you've been a very valuable poster here, but I don't think you were following this team then, and I don't think you have the perspective to talk about it. Bledsoe was 5-11 the year before, started the season off 0-2. Don't get me wrong, I was a huge Bledsoe fan, almost as big a Brady fan as I ended up being, but I was on the Brady bandwagon from pretty early on and pretty much everyone I knew was as well.

Add to that there were rumblings Brady was going to take over the job whether Mo Lewis laid that hit or not. Add to that the team was really struggling, the offense was anemic, and Brady came in and delivered win after win, posting something like the above is not an accurate representation of what transpired in that time period. Comparing the two scenarios shows that you are not understanding the huge differences between the two.

2000/2001: Bledsoe was struggling greatly, Brady came in and flourished.
2007/2008: Brady was flourishing, Cassel came in and did not produce to nearly the same level.

I hate to play the "I was a fan of the team then" card, but I will. Anyone who lived in New England and followed the team in 01 would scoff at the notion you are trying to assert.

No one is saying that Cassel would step in and perform at the level that Brady had done the previous season. The point is Cassel has the potential judging from his first season as a starter to be pretty dynamic, coupled with a boondoggle of players coming from a Brady trade gives the Patriots a better chance of multiple championships in the future.
A previous post had mentioned Cassels inability to throw the long ball. In the past, there was a thread which many agreed that Brady could not throw the long ball. Judging Cassel on his first year as a starter (let alone playing time) as not being where Brady currently is, is decieving.
I never knew for fact that Bledsloe was going to be benched. Was that from a quote?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

Yes, I would expect the backlash from the media and angry fans to be greater than from Kraft. Just like it was when BB benched a healthy Probowl QB back in 2001.

2001 Bledsoe wasn't even a good QB, and he certainly wasn't healthy (he almost died from that hit).

 

[BradyFTW!]

No one is saying that Cassel would step in and perform at the level that Brady had done the previous season. The point is Cassel has the potential judging from his first season as a starter to be pretty dynamic, coupled with a boondoggle of players coming from a Brady trade gives the Patriots a better chance of multiple championships in the future.
A previous post had mentioned Cassels inability to throw the long ball. In the past, there was a thread which many agreed that Brady could not throw the long ball. Judging Cassel on his first year as a starter (let alone playing time) as not being where Brady currently is, is decieving.
I never knew for fact that Bledsloe was going to be benched. Was that from a quote?

There won't be a 'boondoggle' of players coming in a Brady trade unless and until he's proven that he can still play at an elite level. Once he proves that, there will be no reason to trade him. I'm not a huge fan of statements like this, but I'm just about positive that we'll never get Brady's worth to us back in a trade.

My stance on the issue is also made somewhat easier by the fact that BB and Pioli saw enough in Kevin O'Connell to draft him in the third round last year. If Belichick thinks he's good enough to be the Pats' QB of the future, then I'm fine with that. Until then, though, I want Brady QBing the Pats as long as he can do so at a high level (and if he can't do it at a high level, then we won't get jack for him in a trade anyways).

This has been tried before in this thread and made no difference to those who simply, adamantly deny that there is even a possibility that BB would even CONSIDER trading Brady even though he's done it twice before (Bledsoe and Kosar).

See, inherent in your statement is that Brady is comparable to Bledsoe and Kosar. If you honestly think that, then you know absolutely nothing about football.