Reiss: Patriots pick 23rd in first round

[upstater1]

Why are people projecting Vrabel inside now? If he has lost a step as so many claim, why would you play him at a position where he would be "less" effective? Whom do you project to play OLB in his place? Puzzled minds would like to understand?

He's played there before, been decent, and that's clearly a position that requires braun for stacking up the run, anticipation, and smarts. That'S Mike VRABEL RIGHT THERE.

 

[upstater1]

I don't see anything wrong with what you said...that's the reason why Pittsburgh is in the Super Bowl...Edge Pressure! I want the Patriots to try and get Everette Brown or Aaron Maybin either would solve our problems.

Hopefully not Maybin. I'm a big PSU fan. The young man is not strong, and he's not ready. He's Shawn Crable with stronger legs, but upper body needs mucho work.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

At OLB you need to have speed and quickness to be able to get to the QB as well as excel in coverage. At ILB it is more about reading the play and finding your gaps which is more about smarts then athletic ability. I think that's why most (me inculded) expect him to transition to ILB. He has the smarts, but he just can't keep up in open space anymore.

I'm afraid I don't see the argument. Open space isn't what NE's 3-4 LBs are about, Vrabel has his own gaps to manage. The complaint that Vrabes has lost a step on the pass rush may have some validity, but I think there are at least two mitigating factors: 1. Bru was no longer a pass rushing threat from ILB and Mayo & Guyton were rookies. That affects the "mystery" element for the offense when predicting where the pass rush is coming from. 2. The unconfirmed report of a shoulder injury (which I tend to believe based on my observations of Vrabe's struggle setting the edge on the defensive right vs. the job he was able to do on the defensive left). Moving Vrabes inside isn't like moving a CB to S because he's lost a step, it just moves him to where he'll be less effective than he was outside. If he's that bad cut him (and I'm not expecting him to be cut).

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

He's played there before, been decent, and that's clearly a position that requires braun for stacking up the run, anticipation, and smarts. That'S Mike VRABEL RIGHT THERE.

He has played there and took ILB reps in certain situations last season, and I agree about the ability to stack & shed, but he's much less instinctive inside, which becomes a trade-off where I don't see the value. Additionally, if he has lost the step people are complaining about, he becomes a two-down LB, and I again don't see the improvement against the run over a much more instinctive Bruschi.

 

[PatsFan2]

I'm afraid I don't see the argument. Open space isn't what NE's 3-4 LBs are about, Vrabel has his own gaps to manage. The complaint that Vrabes has lost a step on the pass rush may have some validity, but I think there are at least two mitigating factors: 1. Bru was no longer a pass rushing threat from ILB and Mayo & Guyton were rookies. That affects the "mystery" element for the offense when predicting where the pass rush is coming from. 2. The unconfirmed report of a shoulder injury (which I tend to believe based on my observations of Vrabe's struggle setting the edge on the defensive right vs. the job he was able to do on the defensive left). Moving Vrabes inside isn't like moving a CB to S because he's lost a step, it just moves him to where he'll be less effective than he was outside. If he's that bad cut him (and I'm not expecting him to be cut).

Box_O_Rocks get off your soap box TE's were blocking Mike Vrabel effectively last year...that was unheard of in 2007 and even before that. The man has lost a step on the Outside not good for a OLB. We have gotten alot out of Mike he's just not a Starter anymore. OLB Clint Sintim is a fine prospect to replace Vrabel.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box_O_Rocks get off your soap box TE's were blocking Mike Vrabel effectively last year...that was unheard of in 2007 and even before that. The man has lost a step on the Outside not good for a OLB. We have gotten alot out of Mike he's just not a Starter anymore. OLB Clint Sintim is a fine prospect to replace Vrabel.

Fine, when NE drafts Sintim (and I'm on record wanting him) then you can cut Vrabel. Until then I need people to quite whining about how much he sucks and start telling me how to improve on his roster slot. Prior to drafting Sintim - who on the present roster is a better option at OLB? If NE drafts S William Moore in round one, can they still get Sintim in the 2nd? What does NE do if BB chooses an OT or a CB in round one? Sintim is the only kid in this draft whom I see capable of taking significant reps as a rookie. If NE doesn't get him, who is the starter penciled in at OLB?

 

[Clonamery]

Box_O_Rocks get off your soap box TE's were blocking Mike Vrabel effectively last year...that was unheard of in 2007 and even before that. The man has lost a step on the Outside not good for a OLB. We have gotten alot out of Mike he's just not a Starter anymore. OLB Clint Sintim is a fine prospect to replace Vrabel.

I like his soap box. Makes his arguments that much clearer.

 

[PatsFan2]

I like his soap box. Makes his arguments that much clearer.

And he likes Clint Sintim too so what's your point?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Look for the Pats to get a veteran OLB in FA to compete with Vrable,I dont see a rookie taking Mike's place - Not in a BB defense who frowns on rookies making an immediate impact - Mayo was a rare exception

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

And he likes Clint Sintim too so what's your point?

Your gentle and kindly remarks left me hard pressed to approach this as a civil exchange of viewpoints. I'm projecting, but I believe Clonamery felt a similar aggravation with the "soap box" remark in the midst of vigorous debate. :confused2:

 

[PatsFan2]

Your gentle and kindly remarks left me hard pressed to approach this as a civil exchange of viewpoints. I'm projecting, but I believe Clonamery felt a similar aggravation with the "soap box" remark in the midst of vigorous debate. :confused2:

Sorry if i offended you didn't mean to...the Pats missing the Playoffs still aggravates me.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Sorry if i offended you didn't mean to...the Pats missing the Playoffs still aggravates me.

I'll bet you are walking around your house just like the Felix character in your avatar,depressed

 

[Water Boy]

At OLB you need to have speed and quickness to be able to get to the QB as well as excel in coverage. At ILB it is more about reading the play and finding your gaps which is more about smarts then athletic ability. I think that's why most (me inculded) expect him to transition to ILB. He has the smarts, but he just can't keep up in open space anymore.

I think you are a little too quick to right off Vrabel at OLB. He played hurt this year.

Do you have any instances in mind when he "couldn't keep up in space" this year?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Sorry if i offended you didn't mean to...the Pats missing the Playoffs still aggravates me.

Accepted. I know the taste of my own feet entirely too often, and we agree on the top two LB targets for the NE picks (Sintim & Barwin). :eat3:

 

[mmasterkillah]

There will be plenty of defensive talent available IMO. Pick 23 is looking very good when salary is considered with other picks and whatever we do with Matty "Prince of the" Castle

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

We should be picking 19th. Only 4 spots back from where we should be, so it's not the end of the world.

Actually it's 20th (I just counted in my head backwards from 32 ). So only 3 spots, and with our drafting methods (taking guys we want as opposed to where they are valued) 3 spots is nothing IMO.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Was Ty Law the 23rd pick?

Yep, and Wilfork was 21. Great chance we can get a guy who can contribute alot by midseason.

 

[Urgent]

On Vrabel and moving inside:

One of the skills an ILB needs is faster change of direction.

Half the time, the OLB is simply moving forward toward the QB, using whatever moves he chooses. Or he is setting the edge on the run outside. Occasionally he drops in coverage, but often on a TE who is the same size.

The ILB is reacting quite a bit more, and needs more rapid change of direction and agility, picking the gap and tackling an elusive runner. In coverage, he is covering RB's as well, who are often much shiftier.

At 6-5, 260+, Vrabel is very good at rushing like a DE, and has been excellent at setting the edge. However, that length is a detriment inside, and when forced inside he was less effective than he has been on the outside.

That's basically why you don't see many 6-3+ ILB's.

 

[IcyPatriot]

23rd is a crappy position for a team that didn't make the playoffs, but when you consider that we went 11-5, you realize that it could have been worse. We should be picking 19th. Only 4 spots back from where we should be, so it's not the end of the world.

With the expected huge OT run this draft 23 will be very sweet and affordable.

 

[RayClay]

That affects the "mystery" element for the offense when predicting where the pass rush is coming from.

No mystery last year. Seymour.

I'd like to add a monster rusher too. Vrabel and A.D. are versatile and we need talent at ILB and OLB.

People get injured too, but even healthy we need talent in the pipeline for the very near future.