Is Pioli as good as some teams think?

[Kontradiction]

Blocking is very important. But how much are you willing to invest in a TE who is a good blocker but a suspect offensive threat.

Do Watson or Graham in hindsight have 1st round value or the right to be paid what Denver paid for Graham? No way.

And you don't think Graham or Watson would have caught more passes if their respective offenses (which are the same blueprint, ironically) concentrated on that more OR if they weren't surrounded by elite calibur WRs? A good blocker is very important especially at the tight end position in today's NFL where speedy pass rushers are the chic thing to have. Just ask Tom Brady how much he would have given to have had a Daniel Graham protecting him in the Super Bowl last year.

 

[Deus Irae]

So....Deion Branch got a huge deal from Seattle and Asante got a huge deal from Philly. Ask those teams if they were worth that money.

Hobbs and Watson have gotten alot of playing time...because like on any team....you play what you have. And what a team has at certain positions sometimes isn't even close to good or even serviceable. If Watson got hurt, Thomas would get all those snaps.

Hobbs was arguably the team's best DB last season, and that included Samuel. As for whether or not Samuel or Branch has been worth the money, who cares? What they do on another team has nothing to do with whether or not they were busts for the Patriots.

Look, maybe it's just because you misuse the term "bust", because none of the group of Samuel, Branch, Watson, Graham and Hobbs has been one for the Patriots.

 

[PushnPencils]

And you don't think Graham or Watson would have caught more passes if their respective offenses (which are the same blueprint, ironically) concentrated on that more OR if they weren't surrounded by elite calibur WRs? A good blocker is very important especially at the tight end position in today's NFL where speedy pass rushers are the chic thing to have. Just ask Tom Brady how much he would have given to have had a Daniel Graham protecting him in the Super Bowl last year.

The crux of my argument was where they were drafted.

If Dan Graham or Watson were available at #31 in the first round and you one of your needs was TE, would you still take them or address other needs?

Neither player, even a great blocker like Graham has produced at a level of a 1st rounder.

As first rounders, they are both busts. As 3rd or 4th rounders and the money's associated with those positions, they then have value.

 

[Deus Irae]

The crux of my argument was where they were drafted.

If Dan Graham or Watson were available at #31 in the first round and you one of your needs was TE, would you still take them or address other needs?

Neither player, even a great blocker like Graham has produced at a level of a 1st rounder.

As first rounders, they are both busts. As 3rd or 4th rounders and the money's associated with those positions, they then have value.

Ok, it IS talent evaluation that's your problem.

Maybe this link can help you, at least with the tight ends:NFL Draft History: Full Draft - by Position

Again, you don't seem to understand what a "bust" is.

 

[Absurdly Metro]

A good blocker is very important especially at the tight end position in today's NFL where speedy pass rushers are the chic thing to have. Just ask Tom Brady how much he would have given to have had a Daniel Graham protecting him in the Super Bowl last year.

IIRC, most here thought Kyle Brady was a better blocker than Grahambo.

 

[Kontradiction]

Hobbs was arguably the team's best DB last season, and that included Samuel. As for whether or not Samuel or Branch has been worth the money, who cares? What they do on another team has nothing to do with whether or not they were busts for the Patriots.

Look, maybe it's just because you misuse the term "bust", because none of the group of Samuel, Branch, Watson, Graham and Hobbs has been one for the Patriots.

This is what I think of when I see the term "bust" being used...

 

[PushnPencils]

Hobbs was arguably the team's best DB last season, and that included Samuel. As for whether or not Samuel or Branch has been worth the money, who cares? What they do on another team has nothing to do with whether or not they were busts for the Patriots.

Look, maybe it's just because you misuse the term "bust", because none of the group of Samuel, Branch, Watson, Graham and Hobbs has been one for the Patriots.

Watson and Graham are and were busts with regards to the value of a 1st round pick.

Hobbs is a complete and total bust as a starting corner and the tip of the iceberg with regards to the overall issues our secondary had.

Easily one of the worst 1st string corners in the league.

He does have value as a KR, but his production there does not come close to outweighing his deficiencies on defense.

 

[PushnPencils]

This is what I think of when I see the term "bust" being used...

That's a bust that shouldn't be allowed to cover!

 

[Deus Irae]

Watson and Graham are and were busts with regards to the value of a 1st round pick.

Hobbs is a complete and total bust as a starting corner and the tip of the iceberg with regards to the overall issues our secondary had.

Easily one of the worst 1st string corners in the league.

He does have value as a KR, but his production there does not come close to outweighing his deficiencies on defense.

Ok, so you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Thanks, this clears it up.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is what I think of when I see the term "bust" being used...

If all busts were like that, Matt Millen would be the most sought after GM in NFL history.

 

[PushnPencils]

Ok, so you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Thanks, this clears it up.

......

........says the forum genius.

 

[cstjohn17]

It is a valid question, having BB as your coach and Brady as your QB makes personnel decisions easier. But if you were a rebuilding team why not bring in someone who ran the front office of a 3 time Superbowl champion. The GM in Atlanta reported to Pioli and it worked out pretty well for the Falcons.

Possible GMs... if I was an owner who would I hire.... hmm... Matt Millen is available and so is Scott Pioli... hmmm... tough decision unless your last name is Ford.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Watson and Graham are and were busts with regards to the value of a 1st round pick.

Hobbs is a complete and total bust as a starting corner and the tip of the iceberg with regards to the overall issues our secondary had.

Easily one of the worst 1st string corners in the league.

He does have value as a KR, but his production there does not come close to outweighing his deficiencies on defense.

Perhaps this will help you...

 

[Deus Irae]

......

........says the forum genius.

Compared to you, there are a lot of draft geniuses on this forum. You keep calling a 3rd round pick who's been a multi year starter on the best team in football a bust, so belittling just highlights your folly.

 

[PushnPencils]

Perhaps this will help you...

No thanks....I don't need it and more importantly it looks like its been read a lot and hasn't helped you.

 

[Kontradiction]

Perhaps this will help you...

She was so hot in that movie/back then.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

People need to think. Obviously the Pats thought highly of Pioli giving him a major position and pay scale. I'd rely on the Pats org judgement ahead of some internet GM wannabe second guessers, especially folks characterizing the Pats 1st rnd picks as busts and Hobbs as the worst starting corner in the league, a major misread of performance. Most Pats 1st rounders aren't pro-bowlers. Why? Because the vast majorty of the other 31 teams earlier drafted 1st rounders aren't either. First round should be a guy who can get PT year one and earns a starting position certainly by year 2. Pats have succeded with their 1st round picks.

 

[Tunescribe]

Suddenly Ernie Adams is the Messiah. Yes, the whole key to the dynasty is Ernie Adams.
The Father, The Son, and Ernie Adams.

Pioli sucked. Ernie Adams was the whole key the entire time. Belichick could leave and we would be ok if Ernie Adams stayed.

Why are you acting like this?

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

What Tune said

Lifer, what exactly is your gig?

Ryan Leaf was a bust.

I think you need some serious downtime.

 

[PushnPencils]

People need to think. Obviously the Pats thought highly of Pioli giving him a major position and pay scale. I'd rely on the Pats org judgement ahead of some internet GM wannabe second guessers, especially folks characterizing the Pats 1st rnd picks as busts and Hobbs as the worst starting corner in the league, a major misread of performance. Most Pats 1st rounders aren't pro-bowlers. Why? Because the vast majorty of the other 31 teams earlier drafted 1st rounders aren't either. First round should be a guy who can get PT year one and earns a starting position certainly by year 2. Pats have succeded with their 1st round picks.

Apparently the standards for a 1st rounders optimum expected level of production has diminished on the board somehow.

If a 1st rounder makes it as a starter on your team doesn't automatically mean they are a great player.

What if that position was extremely weak on your team to begin with and the drafted player offers a marginal upgrade to the position.....and he starts.

Does that make that player a great draft pick?

As for Hobbs. He sucks as a starter. Period. Not his fault though.....as the team is putting him in a position he is not cut out for due to necessity.