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Idle thoughts - the payback edition


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Bloody Fouts was ridiculous. Kept going on and on about the Hightower tackle on Taylor that should've been unnecessary roughness, then brings it up again when Amendola gets absolutely nailed right by the stands.
'Wow - that was the exact same spot that Hightower got away with one before' - how insightful Dan...

Great write up BTW.

He's like the "Baghdad Bob" of game announcers.:rolleyes:
 
Fouts was simply horrible. Every chance he could he made excuses for the Bills and how lucky the Pats were. He was properly laudatory when it was obvious, but ONLY when it was obvious. He made it seem like the refs never threw a flag against the Pats, when it was flags that got the Bills 17 of their points. The final straw was when they threw the flag on the White drop. It had to be the most obvious hold in history, and Fouts not only said it wasn't much of a hold, he said White was pushing off.

Fouts is sickening even when you factor in the anti-Pats bias. The White drop hold should have been labeled as an attempted drag down.

The punt that wasn't a punt troubles me. It shouldn't have happened and points to something that could be exploited in the future with a fake punt play from another team.

I think they were setting up for another big punt return and hurried to get back into coverage.

I missed the whole bildo incident. Didn't know anything about it until I read this forum. Funny thing there is a quote about it from Gronk which looks like it came from his press conference but when I watch the video, I don't recall him saying anything about it. Did they cut that part out?

Yes they must have cut that out. It was his last question.


Imo, the O line looks much improved over last season but still gives up too much pressure from time to time but I hadn't considered the fact that Brady was trying to long which makes sense.

The Refs called a tight game but some of the calls/non calls were just outright ridiculous.
 
Going in this game reminded me about the time in 2003 when the Pats played the Bills in the "they hate their coach" game and lost 31-0, then in the rematch at the end of the year, the Pats subs played their ass off in a goal line stand to maintain a 31-0 victory. It was perfect symmetry to what turned out to be a perfect year. This game wasn't as symmetrical, but it was a VERY satisfying payback win for the Pats.

More symmetrical than you think.
We lost 16-0
We won 41-25

Both games decided by an exact 16 point margin

Trivia question. Who made the EZ INT to preserve the Pats 31-0 payback win in 2004?
 
Going in this game reminded me about the time in 2003 when the Pats played the Bills in the "they hate their coach" game and lost 31-0, then in the rematch at the end of the year, the Pats subs played their ass off in a goal line stand to maintain a 31-0 victory. It was perfect symmetry to what turned out to be a perfect year. This game wasn't as symmetrical, but it was a VERY satisfying payback win for the Pats. Lets break it down.

1. Offense:

a. Oline: The OL is going to get a lot of grief this game by the "sky is falling" crowd, because of the 4 sacks and the "can you believe how well the Bills are putting on Brady" talk coming from the inept analysis of Dan Fouts. But if you watch with a bit more critical eye, it wasn't nearly as bad a you may think.

A good example was the sack that Solder gave up to the Bills Rookie DE. Solder tried to cut him. That is NOT the technique he'd use if he didn't think the pass was going to come out quickly. Brady did have time to throw the ball in rhythm, but when he pulled it down, the DE had time to wrap him up. I would opine that on 3 of the 4 sacks they got on Brady, the OL did its job, but the play broke down due to either failures by the receivers to get open, the Bills were in the right D, or Brady couldn't find the open man.. Remember that is a VERY good defensive front for the Bills. They are going to get upfield, but not every sack is a failure of the OL.

NOT a great day for the OL in opening any holes for LG. He never really had to the room to get started. Way too many times he was getting hit behind the LOS It was better in passing situations with some successful runs by White. But in regular run situations, the OL failed to create the push they got the last 2 weeks.

The OL is going to get a lot criticism after this week, but I think people will be looking at the wrong area to criticize.

b. TE/FB - Gronk's pass per catch average is perhaps the most surprising thing about this season so far. Once again he was over 20 yds/catch which is a number you associate with elite speedster WR's, not 265 lb TE's. Bennett is a great TE in his own right, but Gronk is even at another level.

Bennett is clearly hampered by his ankle. I'm surprised they didn't rest him for this game. But he muddled through with 4 more traditional TE catches.

The results tell me that the TE's didn't have a great blocking day, and my eyes tell me that Devlin did either. I saw on 2 occasions when he whiffed on his block. Not his finest hour.

c. RB's get a meh. The only good thing you can say about the running game was that it took up 22 of the offensive snaps and didn't turn over the ball. It certainly wasn't all the RB's fault, but sometimes you have to make that one guy miss even if he's not blocked to get the one or two big running plays that makes it work.

White had that huge 3rd down drop. Granted he was brutally held before it, but it was a bad drop nonetheless. He's to be forgiven since it might have been his first of the year (or second)

d. QB- By this time anything laudatory you have to say about Tom Brady is going to sound trite and overused. His 66% completion rate was the worst of this season, and still the results were just terrific with 4 TD's and STILL no picks. But he continues to surprise us with 2 more 5o+ yd TD throws, That will ONLY make the offense more effective as defense are going to HAVE to deepen their coverage to protect against these big plays.

I swear he looks both quicker and faster at 39 than he did at 29. He actually made a cut on his 15 yd run. Maybe his mom is right, and he always has been fast, and we just didn't notice . ;)

e. WR's - Stephan Gilmore was a high first round pick with a can't miss tag. He was big, fast, who actually turned into a pretty good #1 CB for the Bills

Chris Hogan was a #1 draft pick..... but for Major League Lacrosse.(which may or may not be true, but it sounds right so I used it ;) ) And he just blew right by Gilmore for that TD. If he'd been some big time draft pick coming out, maybe it would quiet all the WR mafia who continually and annoyingly plead for a WR in the first round. :rolleyes:

Almost better than the TD was the great move he made on Gilmore to create separation and a first down on the first TD drive. Hogan has turned into a legit outside receiver for the Pats. FINALLY a guy who has some size (6'2) and strength to get by initial press coverage and the speed to run by even good CB's.

Edelman was his usual effective self. Clearly he doesn't need to be a 10+ catch guy anymore with all the other options Brady has. Amendola once again had just a few touches, but made the most of all of them. He's a guy you'll never want for your FF team, or someone who can go to the GM and show him his "stats" and get a raise. He simply has risen to the occasion this season time and time again. He has really been an impact player for the Pats this season.fd

One comment: Brady threw a successful back shoulder throw to Gronk in this game. I would like to see him us this pass more often with not only Gronk, but Bennett and Hogan as well. It is just so effective when executed well. Too often Brady refuses to throw the ball unless a guy is clearly open. Most of the rest of the league's QB, have no problem throwing 50-50 balls out there. Joe Flacco earned over 100MM doing exactly just that, the year they won it all.

2. Defense -

a Front 7 - I think the most obvious criticism for the front 7 was allowing 160 rushing yds to the Bills. Now the Bills DID have an interesting concept going with 2 and sometimes 3 RB's in the backfield that often gave them an extra blocker at the hole, It's a great concept because you have to protect against the QB going wide on the fake, which widens the holes. But I would have thought that that we would have adjusted better in the 2nd half better, (especially the stuff up the middle).

The DL and LB's actually got there enough times to have had 5 sacks of their own, except that Taylor kept getting out of their grasps so often. It makes me very wary given the fact that we will be facing an equally elusive QB next in Wilson. The difference being he will not only have better receivers, is also a better passer.

It was good to see Mingo get some late game snaps with the regular D. He got well into the backfield on a couple of inside rushes and made a nice tackle on the last GL series. I can see him being a potential factor before the season ends, if only providing dependable depth

Trey Flowers continues to develop. 2 sacks and 4 tackles in limited snaps will only earn him more play as the season goes one and that can't hurt.

Ninko is great at tackling RB's,and sets the edge better than anyone, but seems to have this block about getting QB's to the ground. That's like the third of fourth QB he's had 2 hands on and let go. The same can be said of Sheard as well. An awful lot of close calls by those 2. Still I'd rather have them have those now.

c. DB's. I may complain from time to time about our midget secondary, but DAMNED those guys hit hard and are uniformly great tacklers. Malcolm Butler hits so hard he scares the piss out of me, but somehow it's the guy he hits that gets up slowly, while I just thought he might have killed himself hitting him. ;)

Speaking of Butler, his coverage seems to be getting better and better as the year goes on. He totally shut down Woods when he was manning him. I don't think Woods had a catch until they went to the prevent zone late in the game.

Kudos again for our Safeties. To see how Chung has developed in to this multi-use swiss army knife that is so consistently reliable is truly a beautiful thing to see. It's a LONG way from the camp fodder talk from when he first resigned.

Rowe had a tough day with the multiple penalties. The Pats had over 115 yds in penalties and he might have been responsible for almost half of them. But I was happy to see him in great position to defend passes. His head was usually turned back to the ball, and on at least one of the PI's it was the WR pushing off that was what I saw. Basically, he's been doing fine. He just needs to refine his technique and not feel that he has to be perfect to stay on the team. It is NOT all on him for this team to win, and all CB's get passes caught on them. Just relax and do what you do and he'll be fine.

3. Special Teams

a. What a difference a week makes. With the exception of one KO return back to the 35 the special teams at the end of the game, ST's were virtually flawless at every stage. GOOD punt coverage. GOOD KO coverage (with the one exception), GOOD KO's and FG's, GOOD punting by the specialists.

The 2 most impressive plays were the 51yd FG, into a crossing wind, and the 70 yd KO return from Amendola. Whatever ailed Gotskowsi, he is clearly working through it. You could tell from the opening point after that a lot of the movement we've seen on his kicks wasn't there. On his long FG, the ball got caught in the wind at the end that made it close, but the kick was center cut to start out with. Clearly this was the kind of day he needed. He plays a position that is perhaps more mental than any other.

b. I should comment on the Punt that wasn't. It started out lucky for the Pats in that the guy just dropped a perfect snap. Then they got unlucky when he fumbled it again, and it bounced in a direction that literally lead him in right direction to run. Unlucky that they had a return on and that side of the field was open.

Bottom line - Very good job by special teams. Not perfect, but you really don't want to be at this time of the year,

4. General Comments

a. Watching the number of people the Bills had limping to the sidelines throughout this game, you'd have to conclude that the Pats symptomatically just beating the piss out of them. ;) Once again one of Rex's teams won the war of tough words, but failed miserably to win the game of toughness on the field. THAT belonged to your New England Patriots

b. The PI on Coleman was a bad call. Even though he did make contact after 5 yard, the last person to make contact was the Bills WR who simply pushed him away. Clearly the official must have been listening to Dan Fouts and wanted to even up the penalty yards. :rolleyes:

c. Fouts was simply horrible. Every chance he could he made excuses for the Bills and how lucky the Pats were. He was properly laudatory when it was obvious, but ONLY when it was obvious. He made it seem like the refs never threw a flag against the Pats, when it was flags that got the Bills 17 of their points. The final straw was when they threw the flag on the White drop. It had to be the most obvious hold in history, and Fouts not only said it wasn't much of a hold, he said White was pushing off. :rolleyes:

d. EVERY scoring drive that the Bills had after the first one, were materially aided by multiple PI's and holding calls.

e. I really, REALLY hated the garbage time TD, especially since so much of it was aided by very ticky tack calls all the way down the field

f. Tyrod Taylor is a very interesting player. His escapability is unbelievable. His long ball is excellent and usually pretty accurate (as far as long balls go). Given the lack of top grade weapons, I thought he did pretty well today under adverse conditions. He does need to work on developing some touch on his shorter passes, but that is an easy fix in the right system, and good coaching I think he's in the right kind of offense with Lind as his OC, But I wonder if Rex has the patience to develop him

g. I waver on my feelings on Rex Ryan. Sometimes I'm up because you see him create a great defensive game plan, and, of course, his very entertaining pressers. Sometimes I consider him a horrible coach, especially on game day. A buffoon who's teams may like to play for him, but NEVER seem to have the discipline to avoid dumb penalties, or other things you rarely see around a BB team. On balance, we will ALWAYS have an advantage when BB plays him. If you listened to his post game presser, I think even HE has come to believe that's true now.

h. The Gronk TD was especially rewarding because it game against Robey. IIRC, he's one of those 'tough guys' who was chirping all week.

BTW- I would be interesting to know if Brady did his traditional 100 yd sprint to start the game. Not that it mattered, but I's still curious

i. Someone better tell the WHINING Dan Fouts, that the Pats had over 110 yds in penalties and over 30 yds more than the Bills. Many that were key in all but one of the Bills' drives. According to him all the flags were going against the Bills. :rolleyes:

j. I was thinking that one of BB's standard remarks in the post game locker room is that 4 wins won't get you anything in this league, or 5 wins, or 6 wins, and I'm sure he made the same remark today. But the reality is that 7 wins might very well get ypu the division crown in the AFC and NFC south divisions. ;)

k. Happy to see Indy go down again and nice to see NO win. The Brownies lost another heart breaker to the Jets, who aren't even on my radar of caring about, and I'm sorry to see Denver eek out another win. But Denver is over a month away, so it will be few weeks before it comes into focus.

l. Bye weeks are great for the players, but they suck for us. Some of us will have to do overtime work to find things to complain about. We are really very good at it. ;). In the end another solid and workman-like job by our team. Looking forward you your thoughts and a healthy Marty Bennett in 2 weeks.
It was another solid win for our Pats....that's pretty much all we need to know

Belichick and Brady have created a spoiled Pats Nation. But that's not our fault

I said to a buddy of mine that even if we stink after Brady is done, I'm ok with that. As a Pats fan, I gotten more than a lifetime of pure football joy since 2001.

We're football fans, not analysts or GM's
 
Malcolm Butler hits so hard he scares the piss out of me, but somehow it's the guy he hits that gets up slowly, while I just thought he might have killed himself hitting him

Best thread on the board, Ken! Win or lose, I look forward to your observations every week. Thank you!

This was a big Division road win!

With half the season concluded, I'm thinking that this is as physical a Patriots team as I can recall. Hightower is the "Frank Castle" of the gridiron. Butler, for his size, packs an amazing wallop. Opponent's receivers are earning their paychecks. Perhaps "Bend Don't Break" is misnamed. ;)

Tom Brady is so F*&King good it's incredible. He's the crown jewel of the league, bar none.

I thought Tyrod Taylor played with heart, making the most of what he had. I think he's arguably the best non-Pats QB in the AFC East.

One Bills fan in their forum sarcastically lamented: "Why can't we get good receivers like Chris Hogan?" :D

Best laugh of the week was the "bildo on the field" video taken by a fan in the endzone :D. 1. Watching what the ref did was hysterical! 2. Who brings a bildo to a football game? :eek:

7-1, with the best record in the league, and relatively healthy at the mid point. Birds are singing!
 
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The Hightower hit on Taylor was definitely borderline but on the legal side. The hit on Amendola was blatant out of bounds.
 
The Hightower hit on Taylor was definitely borderline but on the legal side. The hit on Amendola was blatant out of bounds.

nahhhhh hightower should have been flagged....he continued to follow through far out of bounds.....I think he meant to do it since it would have cost only a couple of yards

hightower was smashing things early....he set the tone for the pats pounding the crap out of the bills
 
front 7 was allowing 160 rushing yds to the Bills. Now the Bills DID have an interesting concept going with 2 and sometimes 3 RB's in the backfield that often gave them an extra blocker at the hole

Take away Taylor's rushing yards, as all all his yards came from escaping pressure and the punter's run, bills had 100 yards on 20 rushes. 45 of those yards came on the 1st drive. So post 1st drive on designed runs bills only had 55 yards on 17 carries.

So I think the stats kind of lie in this instance, on paper it looks like the Pats run defense had a bad game. But in reality they had 1 bad drive. I know it doesn't work like that but I just can't put Taylor's rushing yards on the run defense. People complain about playing contain against mobile QBs and two of the times the Pats brought the heat Taylor made them pay with his legs.

Chung had him and he escaped for 17 yards
Patricia brought Hightower and Collins on blitzes on 4th and 3rd and after Collins got pulled by his facemask out of making the stop Taylor walked in for a 26 yard TD

43 yards rushing right there because he escaped when Pats brought extra pass rushers.
 
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Our offense truly is a giant toy for McD right now.

Maybe that is what the fan, who threw the "toy" on the field, was trying to express.

:rolleyes:
 
More symmetrical than you think.
We lost 16-0
We won 41-25

Both games decided by an exact 16 point margin

Trivia question. Who made the EZ INT to preserve the Pats 31-0 payback win in 2004?

Trivia answer: Rodney Harrison?
 
The Hightower hit on Taylor was definitely borderline but on the legal side. The hit on Amendola was blatant out of bounds.

I had no problem with Hightower initiating contact on Taylor, as Taylor was in-bounds (barely) and had only just released the ball when contact was initiated. However, after both players were OOB Hightower continued on to wrap Taylor up and take him to the ground. I thought that should have drawn a flag.

And yeah, the hit on Amendola was blatantly late.
 
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Ken - awesome post as always. In regards to you mentioning about Solder on the Cut block and the O-line not being as responsible for the sacks as people think. On one of the sacks (3rd &4) Brady had Bennett wide open to the left and Bennett would have had the 1st down, but Brady looked him off and wanted to go longer. It led directly to Brady being sacked. Had Brady thrown the ball, they'd have gotten the 1st down and could have put more than 3 points on the board.

Brady needs to be willing to take what the defense gives him, especially when it will give the team a new set of downs.
 
Trivia answer: Rodney Harrison?
More symmetrical than you think.
We lost 16-0
We won 41-25

Both games decided by an exact 16 point margin

Trivia question. Who made the EZ INT to preserve the Pats 31-0 payback win in 2004?
Well I remember THAT one clearly. It was Larry Izzo. BB had emptied the bench late in that game and Izzo was getting some rare regular defensive snaps on the Bills last drive.
 
Ken - awesome post as always. In regards to you mentioning about Solder on the Cut block and the O-line not being as responsible for the sacks as people think. On one of the sacks (3rd &4) Brady had Bennett wide open to the left and Bennett would have had the 1st down, but Brady looked him off and wanted to go longer. It led directly to Brady being sacked. Had Brady thrown the ball, they'd have gotten the 1st down and could have put more than 3 points on the board.

Brady needs to be willing to take what the defense gives him, especially when it will give the team a new set of downs.
Yeah, I have had that complaint too from time to time, especially all the open RB's he seems to ignore. However, that being said, we should both temper than complaint because there is value in the QB taking that risk downfield.

And besides, Brady could be the most patient QB there is. I don't know what the statistic is, but I imagine that putting together 13 or 14 play drives is not easy, yet for the Pats long drives are common or at least MORE common than the norm. But then again, it's Brady, and there is nothing normal about his performances. ;)
 
I'm still contending that Bennett, playing the more traditional TE role, is allowing Gronk to be more than just that traditional TE (which he can do as well). Or, Bennett is making Gronk better by taking on more od those short/intermediate/blocking assignments and allowing Gronk to run the seams/downfield more (with the 2 TE sets).

And Bennett is great enough all by himself and seems to have a very good handle on the playbook for a first year in the system guy. Just can't wait to see what they continue to do together.

Of course, adding Hogan to the mix is a real special type of hurt for opposing DCs (Edleman, Gronk, Bennett, Hogan, White/Dion Lewis -- when he's back, and Amendola all having good chemistry with TB).
 
Great write up as usual PFK.



I'm being nitpicky, but I am not willing to give ST as high a rating as you due to the punt. Maybe things are different in the NFL, but I thought there was someone who had the job to make sure the punt was actually kicked. The punter dropped the ball and actually turned around, bent over (effectively mooning the return team) and still had time to run for 15 yards. There had to be at least one person on the return that didn't do their job.

The Pats were not attempting to block the punt. They weren't putting any pressure. They had no one rushing. They were all going backwards to try and give them the best chance at a good return. As Ken mentioned, the bobble took him towards the right side of the field and it helped him escape the likes of Bolden, Grissom and Flowers. So, the idea that one person didn't do their job doesn't see to fly.

What surprised me is that Colton Schmidt outran Bolden. Bolden is a RB with 4.5 speed. Schmidt is a punter.
 
That wasn't even a hold on Collins, it was a blatant facemask. This play made me really angry. One, it was a really bad playcall, there was no one in the middle of the field near the LOS, if Taylor got a lane in the middle it would've been an automatic big gain. And two, how the refs missed the facemask big-time and the garbage announcers didn't even mention it.


I hope this isn't the play that did in Collins.
 
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