Why do people want to replace BJGE???

[mcgraw_wv]

Well I don't think we BJGE is a RB that can run very successfully out of I formation. I like the guy a lot, but I think running out of a spread offense is a lot different than being a factor from typical running situations and running some power packages.

And Again, I think my issues that I have stated on this thread are more that fact that BJGE is the focal point of an entire running game that can't exert it's will on a defense.

Which is what I want to see the Pats get back to. I know everyone loves 07, but to me, there was no better team than 04. We got every crucial first down, we had so many long drives, defenses had 0 answers, becuase we had the ability to run it at will and pass at will.

Since 04, we can pass at will, until someone shuts that down... and then...

 

[muslimman]

I think the answer to this question is simple. BJGE is very upgradable. I agree he has been great starter for us this year. His non-fumbling is amazing, he is a hard worker and pretty productive. But at the end of the day it is obvious that he can be upgraded and I doubt anyone here is going to argue that he isnt upgradable.

So instead of thinking of it as trying to replace BGJE.. think: Why would we not want to upgrade one of the most important skill positions in the game?

Now the more important question here is how and when we would do such an upgrade. Relative to the teams needs I definitely dont agree on spending a 1st on RB right away, but I definitely think the RB position needs an overhaul (as in Morris, Taylor need to go) pretty soon.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

No player is guarenteed to be elite. For some reason Ingram will be the next stud back no question. I have a few problems with this.

3. Ingram isnt even guarenteed to be a top 25 pick. So I dont see how hell be sure fire bet.

No 1st Rd Rb.....

Just watch film of him at Alabama. He has shifty speed, and he can be a bruiser, as well.

He is the best back coming out of college this year.

 

[Tunescribe]

How many times this season did Law Firm carry the ball two or three times in a row? We need a guy who can gain yards and first downs (and a line that can support him) even when the other team KNOWS we're running. Law Firm is not a feature back, he's a change-up to the passing game. We need a guy that defenses fear enough to worry about defending the run even in apparent passing situations. Being steady and reliable enough not to fumble or lose yards is great, but not the legitimate threat needed to take pressure off Brady.

 

[DaBruinz]

Just watch film of him at Alabama. He has shifty speed, and he can be a bruiser, as well.

He is the best back coming out of college this year.

Many people have watched him.. And Many people have conflicting opinions about him.

There are even conflicting opinions about whether or not he's the best back coming out of college this year. Some say that Mikel LeShoure is a better back.

Also, just because he's the "best back coming out of college" doesnt' mean he's better than what we have or that he'll be successful in the NFL.

 

[DaBruinz]

How many times this season did Law Firm carry the ball two or three times in a row? We need a guy who can gain yards and first downs (and a line that can support him) even when the other team KNOWS we're running. Law Firm is not a feature back, he's a change-up to the passing game. We need a guy that defenses fear enough to worry about defending the run even in apparent passing situations. Being steady and reliable enough not to fumble or lose yards is great, but not the legitimate threat needed to take pressure off Brady.

Now you are talking about something different. You are talking about their game plans and how they use their personnel. The fact is that the Pats are a Pass first team and have been with Brady at the helm for 9 of the 11 years.

How do you know that BJGE can't be a feature back?? In fact, I'd say that BJGE has proven he CAN be a feature back if the Pats were willing to commit to the run. If you look at his stats from this year, in all the games where he had 16 or more Runs, he averaged 4.0 YPC or greater. In fact, he averaged 4.89 YPC in those games (166 rushes for 812 yards).

If the Pats used BJGE more and committed more to the run, then it would take pressure off of Brady. But they also would have to get Brady to change his thinking because I've seen him audible out of running situations too numerous times to count, and some of them to the detriment of his teammates..

 

[chicowalker]

No player is guarenteed to be elite. For some reason Ingram will be the next stud back no question. I have a few problems with this.

1. Runningback has been a risk in the first round and this has been shown numerous times. The most sure bet at RB in the last decade (admit it ) was Reggie Bush. We know how that turned out.

2. I watched a couple of Alabama games and he looked unimpressive against SEC defenses. I was more impressed with his teammate he split carries with. Perhaps Kontra could help us here being a big Gators fan.

3. Ingram isnt even guarenteed to be a top 25 pick. So I dont see how hell be sure fire bet.

4. Legarrete Blount and C.J Spiller.

No 1st Rd Rb.....

Trent Richardson

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Just watch film of him at Alabama. He has shifty speed, and he can be a bruiser, as well.

He is the best back coming out of college this year.

We don't play in the SEC...we play in the NFL. Whole other level of competition, speed, size, scheme, etc.

Took Mendenhall who was a first rounder three years and an upgraded OL to have an impact season for the Steelers. The Packers first round RB landed on IR this season and what saved the season was a 6th round rookie coming off PUP. Common denominator is a downhill back who can break arm tackles running behind a solid OL that can open holes. Dillon was a pounder here, but he was running behind some old school roadgraders and a fullback and not a zone blocking scheme and he was one and done...Antoin won twice as many rings. Maroney was shifty and he ran over people until he got hurt...and we changed to a zone blocking scheme and eliminated the fullback because our OL was smarter and more athletic than physically dominant and we were using our TE's primarily as blockers. And we found out you can't hitch a thoroughbred to your snazzy buggy and plow a field with it. The key is to find smart, athletic, physical OL specimens kinda like Wilfork is as a DLman and hitch a tandem of back complimentary backs to 'em. Position versatility is all well and good. Scheme versatility would be awesome, and open up all sorts of possibilities on a true nightmare offense. They tried to achieve that in 2006 via rotational OL and complimentary RB personnel, but abandoned the experiment because it was too complicated and inconsistent and uncohesive. They tried to augment with OL with TE's and found it wasn't enough and it limited Brady's passing targets to consistently.

BJGE is fine as a tandem back. Danny looks fine as the change of pace back. What we need isn't a feature back, it's another downhill back to share the load (what Fred Taylor was supposed to be) and if he had a little more fullback heft that would probably be best (because Morris is likely done and he was never really that). Those players don't usually emerge from the first or even second round. Linemen who are the complete package and game chagers on offense and defense do. That's where you invest your early round draft picks.

 

[upstater1]

I think the answer to this question is simple. BJGE is very upgradable. I agree he has been great starter for us this year. His non-fumbling is amazing, he is a hard worker and pretty productive. But at the end of the day it is obvious that he can be upgraded and I doubt anyone here is going to argue that he isnt upgradable.

So instead of thinking of it as trying to replace BGJE.. think: Why would we not want to upgrade one of the most important skill positions in the game?

Now the more important question here is how and when we would do such an upgrade. Relative to the teams needs I definitely dont agree on spending a 1st on RB right away, but I definitely think the RB position needs an overhaul (as in Morris, Taylor need to go) pretty soon.

What tells me his not easy to upgrade is that the suggestions being made by fans (Mendenhall, Marshawn Lynch and Shonn Greene, for instance) would not work here. Greene is better at breaking tackles, but he's not as fast as Green-Ellis nor is he a homerun threat. Mendenhall is better at breaking tackles and is a homerun threat, but he lacks vision, dances behind the line like Maroney and gets stuffed for losses often. Lynch dances behind the line and is a POS which is why he was given the heave-ho in Buffalo.

People think the grass is greener.

Can we upgrade by going for the all-pros at the position.

Of course, but ever since Sam Cunningham, New England has drafted only ONE player like that.

It's been thirty years. One player. Countless RBs drafted in the top rounds: Tony Collins, Craig James, Robert Weathers, John Stephens, Reggie Dupard, Curtis Martin, Robert Edwards, Lawrence Maroney, JR Redmond, Kevin Faulk, Sedrick Shaw, Leonard Russell, Jon Williams, Vagas Ferguson, Horace Ivory.

The Patriots have drafted 15 backs in the top rounds over a span of 30 years, and of those backs only 1 has been an upgrade over BenJarvus--with the possible exception of Robert Edwards who was injured in his second year.

Now I know that's a poor drafting record, but still... those All-Pro RBs are hard to find.

 

[Patspsycho]

What tells me his not easy to upgrade is that the suggestions being made by fans (Mendenhall, Marshawn Lynch and Shonn Greene, for instance) would not work here. Greene is better at breaking tackles, but he's not as fast as Green-Ellis nor is he a homerun threat. Mendenhall is better at breaking tackles and is a homerun threat, but he lacks vision, dances behind the line like Maroney and gets stuffed for losses often. Lynch dances behind the line and is a POS which is why he was given the heave-ho in Buffalo.

People think the grass is greener.

Can we upgrade by going for the all-pros at the position.

Of course, but ever since Sam Cunningham, New England has drafted only ONE player like that.

It's been thirty years. One player. Countless RBs drafted in the top rounds: Tony Collins, Craig James, Robert Weathers, John Stephens, Reggie Dupard, Curtis Martin, Robert Edwards, Lawrence Maroney, JR Redmond, Kevin Faulk, Sedrick Shaw, Leonard Russell, Jon Williams, Vagas Ferguson, Horace Ivory.

The Patriots have drafted 15 backs in the top rounds over a span of 30 years, and of those backs only 1 has been an upgrade over BenJarvus--with the possible exception of Robert Edwards who was injured in his second year.

Now I know that's a poor drafting record, but still... those All-Pro RBs are hard to find.

This post ought to be made a sticky so that any posters that degrades who we have at RB can easily be directed to read this. It's amazing that 18 TDs and almost 2000 yards by a RB tandem is not good enough for some people and that we need an "upgrade" at the position.

 

[JackBauer]

It's not necessarily an upgrade that people (at least myself) are asking for. It's recognizing the need for better depth at the position and getting a guy with a skill set that both BJGE and Woodhead lack.

 

[chicowalker]

What tells me his not easy to upgrade is that the suggestions being made by fans (Mendenhall, Marshawn Lynch and Shonn Greene, for instance) would not work here. Greene is better at breaking tackles, but he's not as fast as Green-Ellis nor is he a homerun threat. Mendenhall is better at breaking tackles and is a homerun threat, but he lacks vision, dances behind the line like Maroney and gets stuffed for losses often. Lynch dances behind the line and is a POS which is why he was given the heave-ho in Buffalo.

People think the grass is greener.

Can we upgrade by going for the all-pros at the position.

Of course, but ever since Sam Cunningham, New England has drafted only ONE player like that.

It's been thirty years. One player. Countless RBs drafted in the top rounds: Tony Collins, Craig James, Robert Weathers, John Stephens, Reggie Dupard, Curtis Martin, Robert Edwards, Lawrence Maroney, JR Redmond, Kevin Faulk, Sedrick Shaw, Leonard Russell, Jon Williams, Vagas Ferguson, Horace Ivory.

The Patriots have drafted 15 backs in the top rounds over a span of 30 years, and of those backs only 1 has been an upgrade over BenJarvus--with the possible exception of Robert Edwards who was injured in his second year.

Now I know that's a poor drafting record, but still... those All-Pro RBs are hard to find.

I agree with your point but Curtis Martin is the exception.

edit: or is that what you were saying? Curtis Martin after Cunningham? If so, apologies for the confusion.

 

[JackBauer]

I agree with your point but Curtis Martin is the exception.

Plus you'd like to think that the braintrust we currently have is, erm, somewhat better at drafting players than the jabronis like Grier who picked guys in the 1990s.

 

[patsfan-1982]

i think the guy is great he runs hard and dose not turn the ball over give me a FB and draft Mike Pouncey to play right G re-sign Mankins and Light

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

I like our running game with Lawfirm and Woody. But would i like to have a guy who can just dominate the game and take some pressure off Brady? Sure! but those guys cost a lot of money.

 

[Marqui]

I like our running game with Lawfirm and Woody. But would i like to have a guy who can just dominate the game and take some pressure off Brady? Sure! but those guys cost a lot of money.

Pats have plenty of money to spend.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Took Mendenhall who was a first rounder three years and an upgraded OL to have an impact season for the Steelers. The Packers first round RB landed on IR this season and what saved the season was a 6th round rookie coming off PUP.

Ryan Grant was an UDFA.

 

[upstater1]

I agree with your point but Curtis Martin is the exception.

edit: or is that what you were saying? Curtis Martin after Cunningham? If so, apologies for the confusion.

Yes, I worded it badly. I would take only Martin and Edwards over BenJarvus--of all those backs.

 

[upstater1]

Plus you'd like to think that the braintrust we currently have is, erm, somewhat better at drafting players than the jabronis like Grier who picked guys in the 1990s.

But, Kevin Faulk is better than Lawrence Maroney and JR Redmond!

 

[JackBauer]

But, Kevin Faulk is better than Lawrence Maroney and JR Redmond!

Come again?