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Why do people want to replace BJGE???

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DaBruinz, Jan 24, 2011.

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  1. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here is a guy who worked his way into the line-up with hard work and a can do attitude. He became the 1st Patriots RB since Dillon to put up 1000 yards in a season. He had a 4.4 YPC AND scored 13 TDs.. Yet, all I hear is people wanting to draft Mark Ingram or Mikel LeShoure as if that is going to make the running game better with the huge questions on the O-line with Neal, Mankins, Light and Koppen..

    I ask this because he won me over. Yes, I was a Maroney supporter. I ate my crow on him.. Just like I did with Randy Moss back in 2007 and 2008.

    So, seriously, why is it that people want to replace this kid who did a helluva job this year?
  2. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Rookie

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    I don't want to replace him. But I think it would be a good idea to have another running back for depth. The Pats will probably sever ties with Taylor and Morris.
  3. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    I like a guy who works hard, but man, this is the NFL... I want someone who can take over a game.

    Look, the guy got over 1000 yards, which in a 16 game schedule isn't very impressive. And how many of those yards were when the game was out of hand and the other teams defense had for th emost part already given up.

    Most people on this board do NOT take into account inflated stats... in 07, and since then, we have had certain areas of statistics which were way out of the norm due to the situation. Our Defense was considered very good at stopping the run in 07, even though within 4 minutes of a game, the other team had to stop running the ball.

    BJGE does not, and has done nothing to scare a defense, and does not have any break away take it to the house ability. I want a RB that can grind down a defense, and can, by the end of the 3rd quarter, have DBs worred to make the tackle.

    I want Marshawn Lynch after he threw porter to the ground... did you see how Porter wanted nothing more to do with him even though he had a chance to make that tackle again... he wanted nothing more to do with it.


    Our 2 primary running backs, due to their size, don't take the hits, and slide down... they do nothing to wear down a defense, and they are built to get yards in a spread offense. I want someone who can run it in 3rd and 2 when the defense has 8 in the box.
  4. Marqui

    Marqui Rookie

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    I don't want to relace him, just pair him with a true franchise back.
  5. edboc

    edboc Rookie

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    They need the threat of a running game, and bruiser that can break tackles in open space and in short yardage.
  6. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Not replace but some teams are like the jets ,steelers and gb can be run on on the outside perimeter BJGE is a purely inside runner.He does not have that extra gear when breaking outside.

    Did you not see the game where we kept trying to bounce outside but could get anything as he does not explode out.Its top end speed.

    Its not a knock on him but we need 1 young RB , also resign faulk.He is bigger that woodhead and is better inside runner.
  7. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you regarding the Pats RBs. BJGE isn't small by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you consider 5'10 5/8 and 215-220 lbs to be small.

    As for BJGE getting his 1000 yards, he did it on 229 carries. Or about 14 carries a game. And that includes several games where he didn't start and 3 games where he ran the ball less than 10 times.

    This idea that a 215-220 lb RB doesn't do anything to wear down a defense is silly. But I believe that you also ignore the fact that the Pats are a Pass first team and will be with Brady at the helm. I think you also ignore the fact that the Pats only have one MAULER on the O-line and that is Mankins.. The others aren't maulers. They are adequate with their run blocking and they open the holes up for BJGE to hit guys at the second level.

    OH, btw, Lynch is supposedly the same height/weight as BJGE.. Kinda throws a wrench into your argument..
  8. MustaphaM0nd

    MustaphaM0nd Rookie

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    We need a running game that is a threat by itself, not just a complement to the passing game. No one is putting an extra man in the box to stop BJGE.
  9. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    i dont think we want to replace him (i know i dont)...i would rather add another RB (Ricky Williams, Mark Ingram etc) and change the Offensive game plan to be more run oriented. I personnally would like that better than TFB throwing the ball all the time. Run the ball, control the clock, and give your D a break.
  10. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think they need to replace him, but they certainly can upgrade the position. I think the RB by committee approach is still the best unless you have an Adrian Peterson. This team needs to replace Fred Taylor and Sammy Morris and possibly Faulk (although that is Woodhead).

    You look at the top running teams in the NFL this season and a lot of them had a committee approach including the top running team (KC). Having two RBs capable of rushing for over 1,000 yards isn't a bad thing.

    The one thing that does concern me about BJGE is whether this was a fluke year or not. Odds are it wasn't, but we cannot be sure.
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I too, was not a fan of Green-Ellis when we started the season. We needed a solid runner, who could dependably gain a couple of yards and who could take care of the ball. Also, I thought that we need to get a 3rd down back to eventually replace Faulk.

    We now have a 1000 yard runner (as be did with Antowain Smith) who NEVER fumbles. We have Woodhead as our Faulk for this decade. Sure, we would like to have a Dillon, but we are fine with what we have as our starters on 1st and 3rd downs.

    Most agree that we need more than two dependable running backs on the team. Consider what happens if either is injured. It is not about subtraction (getting rid of Green-Ellis). It is all about additions.

    As of now, we have THREE open running back positions. Barring injuries, we have TWO rb positions filled for the 2011 roster.

    We can debate what the roles are that need to be filled by these three running backs. We can argue on who they might be? We can argue with regard to how many, if any, of our ancient ones for 2011. However, it seems clear that we have 2 running backs for 2011 and we need to fill 3 positions.

    And just by the way, I feel better about the running back situation than anytime since Dillon left. How about you all? A 1000 yard runner and a top 3rd round back is great!

  12. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    Only if you think weight and height are the only factors... Lynch is a "Mauler", sorry but BJGE is not.

    Not once did I see him punish anyone on the defense.

    Your points are solid, and my points are based on the want that I don't want to be a passing offense, and to rely only on Brady to win games. I want Brady to be the Clutch TD maker, but not on his shoulders to jump o an early lead and hold it.

    We need a power running game, and I want to invest a draft pick in adding another mauler on the Oline.

    I don't want to go into next year with modest RBs. I want someone the Defense has to game plan around.
  13. JackBauer

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    I don't want to replace BJGE. I want to augment him with speed to waste and the ability to score from anywhere on the field (e.g. Jamaal Charles, my pipe dream).

    If BJGE ever gets injured, we'd be between a rock and hard place.

    Ideally I'd jettison Morris and Taylor, sign Kuhn, pick up another RB in FA/draft, draft Pouncey, sign or draft another OG/OC, re-sign Light and Mankins.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  14. Patspsycho

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  15. JoeShmoe

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    I think he's great but what he needs are a FB to both split some carries and let us play out of the I formation and a few road grader types to replace Koppen and Connoly on the OL
  16. Marqui

    Marqui Rookie

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  17. sebman2112

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    What I really want is another Corey Dillon, but I don't see many players who fit that mold coming out of the draft this year. I like Ingram's footwork, and vision, but he lacks top end speed, and isn't really a big bruising back. Don't get me wrong, I like Ingram, NE simply has more pressing needs to spend their first round picks on. Maybe if he falls to 33.

    DeMarco Murray has good height, nice vision, good footwork, and top end speed, but he could gain a few pounds, and has an injury history. I could see Murray turning into a top 10 RB if he stays healthy, but with his running style that's a question mark. Murray could be around in the third, so he might be someone NE takes a look at, especially since he's such a versatile athlete (KR/RB/WR).

    I don't want to replace BJGE. I want to replace Morris, and Taylor. Woodhead will replace Kevin Faulk.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  18. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

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    My real question is not why "people" want to replace him, but why BB still doesn't think he's a 20 - 25 CPG player. He he averaged 14 carries per game. I understand we have Woodhead to augment him, but in the biggest game of the year, when the Jets were playing 6 DBs against the Pats offense, BB decided that Law Firm should get a total of 9 carries, the entire game.

    So, to answer your question, at least from where I'm standing, BB doesn't see Law Firm as a Corey Dillon type - 345 carries a year. Or even Atwoine Smith one year with close to 300 carries. It seem like he's able to get 4.4 yards per carry, by using him judiciously.

    All that said, Ingram is the same height and weight as Law Firm. LeShoure at 240 LBS, may be more what I'm talking about.

    Just my two cents. Law Firm grew on me too, so I can't be sure what the real deal is.
  19. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    As I said in the other thread, there's at least 5 or 6 areas that need addressed before upgrading BJGE can be thought of, IMO. He's fine as our starter. One more solid draft to shore up the interior OL, DE, and OLB issues... then MAYBE in 2012 we can focus on replacing Light (assuming he gets a short term extension) and can afford to spend a 1st or 2nd on trying to upgrade RB. If we do strike a Dillon type, this offense could be unstoppable. So I wouldn't ignore addressing the situation completely. But until then we're fine with BJGE, an upgrade is a luxury at this point, like Dillon was in 2004 when the team had practically no weaknesses.

    As for this year depth is my only concern at the position, which can be addressed in mid-late rounds.
  20. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Many of us have wanted a fullback since Heath Evans left. Others are content to having a backup RG be our blocking fullback in short yardage situations and for Morris to be a fullback in other roles.

    The bottom line is that we HAVE a fullback. I, for one, agree with you that we should have dedicated fullback as one of our five running backs. Pehaps we will be able to afford to carry such a player when we are not carrying the three oldest running backs in the league on our roster.

  21. patsfan47

    patsfan47 Rookie

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    I agree 100% I would love to have 17,28 and 33 spent on Leshoure, Pouncey and Wisniewski. I honestly think that if we resign Light and Mankins and draft these three all of our offensive problems are solved. With a Ty Warren return and hopefully resigning Gerard Warren for a year I think that our D-Line depth will be fine which will hopefully allow us to sure up the middle of our O-line and get a bruiser back to take pressure off TB. I love BJGE but he works best as a complement to TB more so than being able to take over a game. Having a first round talent back that Maroney was supposed to be for us would really change our dynamic on offense. Just because TB can win you the game with a more spread attack doesn't mean he has to or even should be the focus 100% of the time. Brady may be the best play action quarterback of all time and he truly is in his prime(as was on display this season) he can be even better with a running game that is truly feared. In my opinion having three studs in the middle(Mankins, Wisniewski, Pouncey) with three backs of BJGE, Leshoure, Woodhead is something to be feared. Those three backs would complement eachother beautifully. Leshoure and BJGE grinding down the defense and Woody being able to slice you up would be great especially because Leshoure would bring some big play ability as well.
  22. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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  23. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The fact is that your claim was that "Not once did I see him punish anyone on the defense". Someone posts that BJGE did, actually, punish someone and you call BS with some BS about leverage????

    That's what most people call SPIN or Moving the Goal Posts.

    Reality is that I watched BJGE get 3 and sometime 4 yards after the initial hit would have stopped Maroney, Taylor, or Morris. If you don't think that is punishing on the D-line, then you won't even understand what "punishing" is.
  24. DW Toys

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    I don't want to replace BJGE. I am a fan. I would like to enhance the position. I was not enchanted with Maroney (and got torched) as many were here, but I liked BJGE. I did NOT expect him to perform this well so I am happy for him. I did not consider him a camp cut as some did which I could not figure out. But, another dependable back that has some more explosion would be fine. Maybe it is Woodhead after a full year of camps and schemes for him, but why not make this a three headed monster? We all know BJGE is not going to go the distance in a flash. Woodhead takes some big hits so he is not your bell cow, but he is a great change of pace.

    In all honesty, I think we can all attribute to the strong passing game as some fact of Ben's success. If we had an Ingram or a Pierre Thomas, the 12 yard gains could be TDs. I am not complaining about the BJGE 7 and 12 yarders, just saying. Greene and Mendenhal are about the same size and they are a TD threat every play. I am just saying if we had three backs who get comparable carries, TB does not have to air it out on say a 3rd and 4 as much. We have to not put the whole offense on his shoulders every game. I guess a few OL pieces need to come as an upgrade as well.

    I am still not enchanted with Sanders, but I will sit and eat a little crow on him this year right beside DB. I still think he can be easily upgraded because we still got burnt in the middle (see Cotchery), but to be fair he made a few plays. My point is, I think that how good of a season it was for BJGE we can enhance the RB position too, with a Ingram or even a Pierre Thomas. I think BJGE is still a liability in the passing game as a receiver but his pass blocking has improved. If you can give him 12-15 carries and another RB the same and mix in Woodhead for about 5 carries (not including pass. He averaged about 7 carries per game this year) you could dominate almost every game.

    The Chiefs had the #1 running game in the NFL. Jones had about 16 carries per game and Charles about 14 per game average. If you can get up to 35 rushes per game I think you have about a 80% chance of winning that game.

    In his SB year with the Pats. Dillion carried about 24 times per game (Faulk about another 4-5 carries per game) . The important stat was he was about 4.7 YPC. If you add Woodhead and BJGE carries together they are less per game (about 20). I just say enhance the RB element slightly, we are not forcing TB to win every game and let the other Teams game plan for the run as well. We all admit some of the runs this year were a direct benefit of a superb passing game. Top heavy balance one way or the other is no good but give the running game a slight upgrade and this Team is that much better. It carries over to a fresher defense as well.

    So...another top tier back and some added carries and our defense is befitted. Am I wrong here?
    DW Toys
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  25. robertweathers

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    Good post, Rob. I feel the same way.

    BJGE is a good runner. The thing it that you need two of these guys. If you don't have two, you need Corey Dillon. Having those two is part of the solution. The other part of the solution is comitting to the running game and ensuring defenses don't tee of on TB all the time.

    Woodhead is a 3rd down back/situational runner.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  26. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    With 2 or 3 possible RB vacancies, I would expect the majority view would be to bring in a running back who can compete for the position and, if presenting a better option than BJGE, ultimately replace him on the depth chart.

    If BJGE had that second gear that allowed him to take off when he cleared the LBs, then I would say the position is settled (Woodhead has that skill, but cannot bounce off the front 7 due to his size). That ability requires teams to adjust defenses away from a pure passing defense and compensate for that ability. BJGE doesn't offer that skill. I would agree with others saying he nicely compliments a passing game, but does not offer a stand-alone running game if an opposing defense takes out the passing game.
  27. Mike in 333

    Mike in 333 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BJGE fits our current offensive system very well. Partnered with Woodhead and Morris we had our best rushing season in quite a while, I would guess it was better than most of us anticipated at the beginning of the season when Maroney was our #1 back. I think by asking for a "bigger or better" back what some are looking for is a different offensive scheme that isn't likely to happen as long as we have the receiving corps including tight ends that are now on the roster. If we wanted to run the ball more we could have but it just isn't what this offense was all about.
  28. ctpatsfan1

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    BJGE is a nice back, but if you can add a potential superstar RB wouldn't you do it? I know I would. IMHO the RB squad for 2011 should be BJGE, Rookie, Faulk, Woodhead.

    The rookie being one of the big name studs. I would also add 2 OL, 2 DL and 1 OLB (6 picks in first 3 rounds) to the mix depending upon who they signed in F/A.

    games are truely won and lost in the trenches and the Pats need to make their trench players the best they can be.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  29. Dagg

    Dagg Rookie

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    No RBs in the last few years had a chance to get 1000 sice it was a 3 or 4 person time share. 62 yds a game is all it takes to get 1000. He doesnt have Jamaal Charles breakaway speed and he doesnt have great strength like a steven jackson. Hes just very very very average.

    We need a bruiser imo someone you have to stack the box to stop we havent had it since dillon.
  30. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    I don't think running over a guy that had no leverage and just barely got there punishing... Alphonso Smith I bet didn't get up and think... Ouch... that guy is a beast...

    I want to see him bowl over a LB in the hole.
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