Welcome to PatsFans.com

Why Deion Branch over Julian Edelman ?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by satz, Sep 20, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. satz

    satz Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Julian played outside and in 2 WR set aligned outside alot. On 3 Wr set he was the outside guy , Wes the Slot guy .

    Any one have any idea why Branch is resigned to play the outside spot which julian has lined up on the other side of lloyd.

    In 2 WR set will branch i think will take snaps from Julian as the outside guy.
    in 3 WR set he might be Outside guy again with WES/Julian as the slot guy.

    Julian is lossing his outside snap to branch.

    satz
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
  2. Nehalem

    Nehalem Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    355
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Who said it is Branch over Edelman?

    With the Patriots likely to play more 3 WR sets it would seem to be a good idea to have more than 3 WRs who Brady is comfortable with.
  3. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,846
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Yeah, likely a depth issue. I expect Edelman to keep getting what he's been getting. I doubt Branch eats too much into his snaps. (which probably means BB will bench Edelman altogether).
  4. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    It's not Branch over Julian. It's Julian is a slot receiver, and the team maybe wanted to see if he was more. I doubt that he is, since that is not his skillset.

    This probably has more to do with the fact that we have no 2nd outside WR in the 3WR set. With Hernandez injured, we'll need to run a 3WR set much more often.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
  5. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,446
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +88 / 1 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    I would hope that it's Branch over Edelman. Branch is a much better WR as a whole, nevermind as a flanker. The 3 WR set should be Lloyd at split-end, Welker in the slot, and Branch at flanker. Edelman should come in as the other slot after that if we go four or five wide (assuming Gronk is in on both sets). That's where Edelman belongs on this team. As the second slot receiver opposite Welker.
  6. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,446
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +88 / 1 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    The team was lining Edelman up as an outside receiver. In that case, it would be Branch over Edelman. That's assumed. After that, it's Edelman vs. Welker, which Welker *SHOULD* win comfortably.
  7. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Well, true. I just don't even think Edelman should be on the outside from the getgo, so that's where I'm coming from.

    Before Hernandez went down, before Hooma proved completely ineffective, and before the line struggled in run blocking, the plan was to not use a 3WR set often, so the team probably thought Edelman was decent enough depth there.

    Granted, a lot of people on this board would say I'm underestimating Edelman, but I just don't see the skillset or the production from him when not in the slot.
  8. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    Part of the reason I think Edelman was receiving a few more snaps than Welker was using him in the 2 TE set was a way to keep Welker fresher throughout the year. He plays a tough position and is on the wrong side of 30, so they make use of Edelman in the formations where it makes sense. Hernandez going down meant leaving Edelman in there even when Welker would normally be on the field.

    I think something similar will happen with Branch. While Edelman isn't the ideal guy to have on the outside, there are a few things he can do there (long crossing routes, quick screens, etc), so I expect they'll be giving him a healthy number of Branch's outside reps, as well as some of Welker's slot reps, in an effort to keep both of the older WR's fresh come the end of the year.
  9. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,391
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    How do we know that Deion isn't WR#4?
  10. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,446
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +88 / 1 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    Because he's more suited and has a better history of playing flanker than Edelman has. Branch should be the WR3 behind Welker and Lloyd (unless Welker is benched for some unfathomable reason again this week).
  11. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,079
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    You read my mind. I was thinking the same thing. I guess we'll find out on Sunday.
  12. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,761
    Likes Received:
    53
    Ratings:
    +72 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    I think that it's just guesswork on this right now, and even what we see for the next few weeks could just be part of a holding pattern set up to get the team through until Hernandez returns.
  13. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,446
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +88 / 1 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    There's no doubt that this will be a patchwork offense until November. I expect more 3WR sets at first, then more 2TE sets once Winslow gets completely comfortable with the nuances of the offense (should take a couple of weeks, estimated).
  14. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,781
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +19 / 1 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    You guys are missing the obvious.we were 2 TE last week but we will be more 3 wide until Ahern is back so we needed Branch back in order to still be able to sit Wes. Edelman slides to the slot and Branch fills Edelmans role this way we don't need to see Wes.
  15. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    22,515
    Likes Received:
    75
    Ratings:
    +86 / 0 / -0

    Disable Jersey

    Yah as to patchwork. But BB's theme has always been situational match ups, so i would caution folks into not reading whatever combos the Pats use vs the Ravens as cast in stone. The defense has been re-engineered to be able to do all kinds of different things with versitile players swapping assignments and I think that the offense's goal is to be similar.
  16. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,446
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +88 / 1 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    Wes shouldn't be seated unless he needs a breather for a few plays or is injured. Otherwise, he should always be in the game. He's the best possession receiver in the NFL and the best receiver we have on the team.
  17. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,446
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +88 / 1 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    I agree with this wholeheartedly, but Winslow is brand new and it make take some time to get accustomed to the offense and the option routes that he'd be responsible for on any given play. With that in mind, we're more apt to throw more 3WR sets out there to lessen the amount that Winslow is responsible for right away. If he's confused on even one route, it could turn into a game-turning INT.
  18. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,761
    Likes Received:
    53
    Ratings:
    +72 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    Here's the thing, IMO

    In week one, Edelman had one catch as the WR2 under the new system. In week 2, even with Hernandez going down early and Welker not getting targeted until the 2 minute warning at the end of the first half, Edelman only managed to ring up 5 catches for 50 yards. For all the sunshine McD was trying to blow about Edelman, he's been a failure through 2 games. Now, it's only been 2 games, and maybe Edelman really is all that the team is claiming, but we're certainly not seeing it on the field. On top of that, for all the "Edelman is great after the catch" claims, Edelman's averaging less than 10 ypc for his career to date. So, it's not being patchwork that's the issue to me, because I expect Winslow to be an adequate replacement for Hernandez in 3 of the 5 "use" positions/functions (tight receiving/tight blocking/slot receiving). The issue to me is whether they use this time of being patchwork to pull back on the Edelman experiment.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
  19. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,781
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +19 / 1 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    Really? Care to elaborate?
  20. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    21,845
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ratings:
    +18 / 0 / -1

    More than a breather for a few plays IMO, but more like a limited amount of snaps to cut down on the wear and tear.
    He played 90% of the snaps last year, which was much higher than any other season.
    The best use of Welker is to have him out there for around 75%-80% of the snaps so that he stays healthy and as close to 100% all year long.
    He will wear down faster at this age than he did 3 years ago.
  21. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    I'm not sure 5 for 50 should be considered a failure per se, as even with Hernandez out he should be the fourth option after Lloyd, Welker, and Gronk. But I agree that Edelman isn't the ideal candidate for any position on this team, be it outside (where Branch should be better) or slot (where Welker is clearly better). His real value lies in being able to fill in for both, allowing them to limit both player's reps to save some legs.
  22. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,446
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +88 / 1 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    No arguments here.

    What do you want me to elaborate on? I thought that what I said was pretty straight forward.

    I wouldn't mind seeing Welker pulled back under 90% either, especially with Lloyd now on the team and Branch back. I would say that it needs to be more than 75%, especially with Hernandez now out a few weeks at the very least. He's too much of a weapon over the middle of the field to sit out for 25% of the snaps each game.
  23. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    I think that decision will be made not voluntarily, unfortunately, but only if their hand is forced. That will start with Winslow. If he can't pick up this offense or develop chemistry with Brady, all bets are off for staying the transition course until Hernandez is back and 100%. Secondary factor will be Edleman's performance. And what level of growing pains they are stubbornly committed to withstanding. They were so committed to this particular approach out of the gate that they removed any alternative they could be tempted to resort to until an injury forced their hand. Threw out the baby with the bath water as you termed it. Except they couldn't remove Welker largely because of the tag, although had Hernnandez not been lost for a substantial period in week 2 I now don't doubt they would have indeed at least persued a scenario that accomplished that before the trading deadline, too.
  24. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,446
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +88 / 1 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    Bingo. Though I see Branch needing more rest at this point than Welker.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
  25. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    40,761
    Likes Received:
    53
    Ratings:
    +72 / 3 / -1

    Disable Jersey

    You're saying "should", and I hear you but, with the snap totals that Edelman had in that game, he wasn't getting much in the way of targets until the second half. The play-by-play has Edelman with only one target in the first half. If that's all he's going to be good for, he needs to get off the field. It was bad enough seeing this sort of thing with Aiken and Tate. We don't need to be seeing it again.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
  26. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    Based on just the two athletes themselves I would agree, but I think the gap narrows because Welker plays a rougher position. He's generally getting hit by bigger bodies in the middle of the field than Branch is on the outside. Overall, I think you're right though.
  27. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    8,781
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +19 / 1 / -1

    #24 Jersey

    I was just messing with you because you missed my sarcasm;)
  28. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,446
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +88 / 1 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    Aye, you got me. :bricks:
  29. Sicilian

    Sicilian Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    The offense in general really had no rhythm in the first half, so I'm inclined to weight the numbers a little bit. Not ignore them mind you, you're definitely right that a guy playing all the snaps only getting 1 target in a half is never a sign of good things. But the adjustments made in the 2nd half lead to believe he's better than Tate or Aiken, who not only had poor first halves, but followed them up with poor second halves as well.

    Again though, so long as Lloyd, Branch, and Welker are healthy, they should be in the vast majority of 3 WR sets, with Branch filling in in spot duty to keep them at reasonable snap counts (around 80% for Welker, and probably 60-70% for Branch). Some of those snaps can be managed with a 2-TE set, especially once Winslow is back, but Edelman will need to play unless we bring in another WR.
  30. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    Rappaport views this as all about Edleman and determining if he is indeed a replacement for what Welker brings including more versatility to play outside. How long the in season experiment continues will depend on lots of factors, including wins and losses and individual performance and injuries which out of the gate in Hernandez case has certainly limited their perceived capacity to assume short term risk in favor of some long term answers...

    Never made any sense this was about Welker per se. This is about transitioning to a 99% "12" personnel offense. I just think when you commit to doing anything that exclusively you just invite situations like this.

    What is going on with the New England Patriots and Wes Welker? Well… - NFL.com
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page