Content Post Idle thoughts: A new era.

[1960Pats]

strong disagree. if Belichick is the greatest coach of all time, why is his record way below .500 when you examine his record without Tom Brady? Andy Reid won without Mahomes, Shula won without Marino, Parcells won with multiple qbs, Landry won before/after Staubach, Jimmy Johnson won SBs in Dallas and then went to the playoffs 3 straight years w Miami (and won 2 games)...Bill Belichick is absolutely nothing but a good defensive coordinator without Tom Brady.
Please, I'd love all the IBWT idiots to wax poetic about his record setting Cleveland stint....and how about that electrifying 29-39 period post Brady?
I'm all ears....

I did a little research recently and one thing that stuck out to me was how Bill's record mirrors Tom Landry's. Landry had 5 losing seasons to start his HCing career and 3 to end it, the exact same as Bill. No other HC is even close. I think Reid has 3 total.

 

[mgteich]

.

Jayden Daniels or Drake Maye. Both exciting choices. Maye could be the 'safer pick' due to his more classic pocket passing style, big size at 6'4 230, with a strong arm, he has been compared favorably with Justin Herbert. But Jayden Daniels is just a different beast. He's a freak of an athlete who is a threat both on the ground and in the air. The 2023 Heisman trophy winner could bring a lot of excitement to New England's offense. Of course Marvin Harrison Jr. is also a viable choice at #3. But most likely we go with the QB based on Mayo's statement to the press.

It feels really hard to pass on top tier talent when as a franchise you rarely get that opportunity at such a rarefied pick. Let's say you pass on the next Herbert or Lamar Jackson, but you draft a solid OT. You're still missing the KEY piece to turn around your franchise and will likely have to give up a LOT of draft capital the next year to move up for a top QB. Sooner or later you need to be brave and just bite the bullet. You miss 100% of the swings that you don't take.

I agree. Pick a QB at the top of the draft and then take 2 years to build. I don't expect our new QB to start for at least half the year. That is what we'll have a free agent transition QB for.

As an aside, I could see us considering Nix in the mix even in the top few picks.

Also, we might trade down one or two picks. Both teams want Harrison.

 

[venecol]

I did a little research recently and one thing that stuck out to me was how Bill's record mirrors Tom Landry's. Landry had 5 losing seasons to start his HCing career and 3 to end it, the exact same as Bill. No other HC is even close. I think Reid has 3 total.

Bill is now tied with Landry for most career loses (incl. playoffs): 178

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Welcome Back!
Go Jumbos!
Younger granddaughter is a Tufts freshman EE major.

 

[Nikolai]

I haven't been contributing the last several months for a few reasons. I have had to deal with some health and personal issues, and the board had become so negative and predictable. But I have been lurking and since the Pats are starting a new era, I have a overload of thoughts and opinions that need to be expressed or my head will explode. So here I am. Hope you find it worth the read since it might be long. (what a shock) '

1. Bill Bellicheck - Bill the coach is STILL an excellent HC. You only had to see how hard the players kept playing and how close most of the games were with a subpar roster DESPITE the adversity of playing on a bad team. to clearly see that. However , Bill has to also take the full responsibility FOR that subpar roster too. All teams go through a draft drought. In the end it;s a crap shoot and teams spent an enormous amount of time and money to lower those odds, and STILL pick more losers than winners. Most teams usually have 6-9 picks each year and their ideal outcome that they hope to get is 2 starters and 2 rotational players THAT's a great draft by any measure, EVERY team misses on about 50% of their picks and EVERY team bypasses guy who turn out to be great players elsewhere.

Make no mistake about it Bill can STILL coach and game plane at an elite level. But I have come to terms with him leaving because of the drafting, player acquisitions, and staff mistakes have become too obvious to overlook. I would have been OK to keep him, IF he was agreeable to giving up his final say on the draft and FA decisions and having a GM. I believe that's the issue that is holding up him getting another job.

In conclusion, I believe Bill is the GOAT HC in the NFL. He fielded a Championship contender for close to 20 years, in a league that was designed to make that impossible with players and coaches constantly moving, and the cap. He DID the impossible. This is the first year we have had a pick inside the top 10 since 2001. Don't forget even in the last 4 seasons since Tom left, the Pats, on the last game of the season, either were in contention to get into the playoffs or got in, in 3 of them. The nitpickers and 2nd guessers can shout away the fact that literally had a GENERATION of great, competitive teams to root for. That CANNOT be wiped out by one horrible season.

2. Mac Jones. We broke Mac Jones. The universal wisdom is that Mac Jones sucks and the last 2 years are proof of that. But I cannot get out of my head the QB I saw back in 2001 who was smart, accurate and tough. The guy who had great numbers without a great supporting cast. The guy who NONE of us didn't think he had a great future going forward. THAT guy is still there and IMHO will be a capable NFL starter some day, but likely not here.

However there are a few scenarios where I can see him being on the roster nextt season. If last season proves anything, you better have a quality back up at QB because you are going to need him at some point in the season. So even if we draft a QB at #3m, IF Mac has a good camp, he could end up being that quality back up. In an ideal situation, Mac gets a chance to show he is the guy he was in 2021 and we can get a decent pick or player for him. Remember he's only played 3 seasons. The Packer QB was in his 4th when he broke out.

3. Who of OUR free agents to sign.

I think there are guys I'd LIKE to resign and guys that I think are priority signings and we NEED to keep. You can't keep them all
a. Owenu - quality performer at 2 positions. He WILL get some offers in the 18-20M range
b. Duggar- is a top 3 safety in this class. He too will have to get a market deal
c. Mills - Mills played an important role in our 7th ranked D and his versitility brings flexability and depth to the D
d, Henry - Henry was solid again and we need to keep something at a depleted TE position. But I wouldn't break the bank for him
e. Uche - He's a solid Robin to Judon's Batman, but he isn't a batman alone. I'd like him on the team but I wouldn't break the bank for him
f. P Brown- I liked what I saw for him. He's a solid #3 or #4 TE. He seemed to catch everything thrown to him and was decent after the catch
g. Wilson- Mac was much improved this season when he got his chance and we need speed at the LB spot.
h. Bryant- the kid has improved every year he's been here and 2023 was his best yet. He's a great guy to have around as secondary depth

I think the first 2 are MUST signs and as for the last six I would like to see at least 4 comming back. Your list my have different rankings, I look forward to your thoughts

4. FA's to sign in Feburary

The first thing we have to realize is that we are not the FA destination that we have been the last 25 years. We have a rookie HC, a losing season, and a LOT of holes to fill. Players want the money of course, but they also want to win. With the kind of money players make these days, it doesn't take a career to become financially independent, they can do now in a season. So it might take 2 years to rebuild the roster to the point where we are ready to compete for the playoffs constantly. So if we want to sign any February FA's we are going to have do overpay.

I was looking at a list of FA's and there was only ONE OT in the first 20 (T Smith at 14) he's the only lock LT available and HE has a long history of injuries and missed games) The next OT on the list was TBrown at 22 with Owenu the next at 25. So clearly the BEST option is to sign our own guy as our OL FA signings. Unfortunately this isn't a great OT FA class and I have mixed feelings about Trent. He's great when he plays and is motivated, but he is a guy who seems to play when he feels like it. I'm not sure I want that kind of selfish guy on my team. But maybe Mayo HAS a connection to him that will get to be the guy we saw in 2018 again.

The WR group looks decent, but our current QB situation again doesn't make us a destination for any true #1 WR's However there is a deep class of DL/Edge guys who I think would be an upgrade over Uche. Guys like Allen, Burns, and Huff. Guys who would be #1s on most teams. Signing one of the make our pass rush simply DANGEROUS.

First of all, welcome back!

As alluded to earlier, I did make an attempt to provide content, but was too drunk to do anything that useful, especially compared to your insights. Please don't leave again lol

Outstanding write up and I agree with a fair amount of it. While a decent percentage of the forum is dancing on BB's grave, it's good to see the recognition. The man is the GOAT coach, even if he was only a passable GM at his best. I find the perspectives of fans outside New England to be more charitable than some of our own, which is unfortunate.

There is really only one thing I'd probably pick a nit with in your opening. Concerning Mac, some of the signs of his undoing were there in 2021. His field vision was not great, and while we could have chalked that up to a rookie being overwhelmed by NFL game speed, it wasn't something that necessarily improved. Granted, running for his life precludes that to a degree, but even with clean pockets, he struggled to find the open man. And while we can certainly attribute the "happy feet" to abysmal OL play, his reaction to pressure has always been subpar. Not that Zappe is even a starting level QB, but contrast his handling of pressure and Mac's.

One thing I pointed out in a drunken rant was that it appeared Zappe was sharper at setting protections, which was also a factor, and if it's true, then another strike against Mac's vision of the field. He did not appear to make improvements to some of his mechanics, and actually appeared to regress since 2021. That's probably one of the things that worries me most about him. I haven't seen the year-over-year improvements, whether it's because he lacks the desire to make those changes or is incapable of them. I'm not saying he can't be in the league, or that he can't even be on the team. However, those factors are enough for me to believe he cannot consistently elevate his game to the level necessary to lead a team that can realistically compete for the playoffs, let alone in them.

Great post. Again, welcome back.

 

[btdrnks]

I want Josh to run the Offense and mentor the coaches and players.

He could be Asst Coach-Offense; he could be OC, or he could be Senior Advisor-Offense.

My preference would be to have Josh as an Asst Coach and Caley as the OC, learning from Josh.

I dont undstand anyones thinking on Josh. He only has familiarity with the modified Erhardt-Perkins system. Caley has a completely different background in the shanahan system now. Josh only makes sense if you want to continue to run what we've run for 20+ years. I thought we wanted a fresh start with a modernized offense?

 

[Hyped]

Good to know you are alive and kickin', @patsfanken. Hope the health issues work out in your favor. My comments:

a.) Yup, Belichick absolutely can still coach. He isn't done, IMO. Maybe a year on TV making comments about how some coaches do dumb **** will make him a desirable candidate in 2025 to get some team "over the hump". I am actually worried about him going to the Bills in 2025.

b.) Yup, re-sign Onwenu. It's the only way we can at least shore up the RT position with 100% certainity. Even then, I still draft some OT's and sign some more in FA as well...hopefully we can get some competition at OT while Strange, Andrews, and Onwenu hold down the middle of the OL. If not, we move Onwenu out to RT...and insert Sow. Slide P. Brown to the left side a lot to double block.

c.) Agree, wouldn't break the bank for Henry...but want one of our 3 TE's resigned...at minimum P. Brown.

d.) We are stuck with Parker and Smith-Schuster. I just hope that we can relegate Parker to a #3/#4 WR and that Smith-Schuster's knee gets better enough that he can put up good competition with Bourne for the #2 spot (if we re-sign Bourne). But we absolutely have to bring in a #1....we have the cap money to do so...even if we overpay for Onwenu. At minimum, I am hoping for one of Higgins, Pittman, and Evans (in that order of preference).

e.) Yes, we need some clarity as to the make up of our coaching staff and front office. Think that will come in due time, but two things.... No to Josh McDaniels. I'd like to move away from Perkins-Erhardt and all of its variations. I want something more modern with zone blocking as well.... McDaniels is a good OC no doubt, but don't feel like he is a fit for what I hope will be a different approach. And second, our front office will be the SAME one with the SAME data until the draft.....I expect a GM to be named at least....then I expect many scouts being let go after the draft...and some more changes.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

I haven't been contributing the last several months for a few reasons. I have had to deal with some health and personal issues, and the board had become so negative and predictable. But I have been lurking and since the Pats are starting a new era, I have a overload of thoughts and opinions that need to be expressed or my head will explode. So here I am. Hope you find it worth the read since it might be long. (what a shock) '

1. Bill Bellicheck - Bill the coach is STILL an excellent HC. You only had to see how hard the players kept playing and how close most of the games were with a subpar roster DESPITE the adversity of playing on a bad team. to clearly see that. However , Bill has to also take the full responsibility FOR that subpar roster too. All teams go through a draft drought. In the end it;s a crap shoot and teams spent an enormous amount of time and money to lower those odds, and STILL pick more losers than winners. Most teams usually have 6-9 picks each year and their ideal outcome that they hope to get is 2 starters and 2 rotational players THAT's a great draft by any measure, EVERY team misses on about 50% of their picks and EVERY team bypasses guy who turn out to be great players elsewhere.

Make no mistake about it Bill can STILL coach and game plane at an elite level. But I have come to terms with him leaving because of the drafting, player acquisitions, and staff mistakes have become too obvious to overlook. I would have been OK to keep him, IF he was agreeable to giving up his final say on the draft and FA decisions and having a GM. I believe that's the issue that is holding up him getting another job.

In conclusion, I believe Bill is the GOAT HC in the NFL. He fielded a Championship contender for close to 20 years, in a league that was designed to make that impossible with players and coaches constantly moving, and the cap. He DID the impossible. This is the first year we have had a pick inside the top 10 since 2001. Don't forget even in the last 4 seasons since Tom left, the Pats, on the last game of the season, either were in contention to get into the playoffs or got in, in 3 of them. The nitpickers and 2nd guessers can shout away the fact that literally had a GENERATION of great, competitive teams to root for. That CANNOT be wiped out by one horrible season.

2. Mac Jones. We broke Mac Jones. The universal wisdom is that Mac Jones sucks and the last 2 years are proof of that. But I cannot get out of my head the QB I saw back in 2001 who was smart, accurate and tough. The guy who had great numbers without a great supporting cast. The guy who NONE of us didn't think he had a great future going forward. THAT guy is still there and IMHO will be a capable NFL starter some day, but likely not here.

However there are a few scenarios where I can see him being on the roster nextt season. If last season proves anything, you better have a quality back up at QB because you are going to need him at some point in the season. So even if we draft a QB at #3m, IF Mac has a good camp, he could end up being that quality back up. In an ideal situation, Mac gets a chance to show he is the guy he was in 2021 and we can get a decent pick or player for him. Remember he's only played 3 seasons. The Packer QB was in his 4th when he broke out.

3. Who of OUR free agents to sign.

I think there are guys I'd LIKE to resign and guys that I think are priority signings and we NEED to keep. You can't keep them all
a. Owenu - quality performer at 2 positions. He WILL get some offers in the 18-20M range
b. Duggar- is a top 3 safety in this class. He too will have to get a market deal
c. Mills - Mills played an important role in our 7th ranked D and his versitility brings flexability and depth to the D
d, Henry - Henry was solid again and we need to keep something at a depleted TE position. But I wouldn't break the bank for him
e. Uche - He's a solid Robin to Judon's Batman, but he isn't a batman alone. I'd like him on the team but I wouldn't break the bank for him
f. P Brown- I liked what I saw for him. He's a solid #3 or #4 TE. He seemed to catch everything thrown to him and was decent after the catch
g. Wilson- Mac was much improved this season when he got his chance and we need speed at the LB spot.
h. Bryant- the kid has improved every year he's been here and 2023 was his best yet. He's a great guy to have around as secondary depth

I think the first 2 are MUST signs and as for the last six I would like to see at least 4 comming back. Your list my have different rankings, I look forward to your thoughts

4. FA's to sign in Feburary

The first thing we have to realize is that we are not the FA destination that we have been the last 25 years. We have a rookie HC, a losing season, and a LOT of holes to fill. Players want the money of course, but they also want to win. With the kind of money players make these days, it doesn't take a career to become financially independent, they can do now in a season. So it might take 2 years to rebuild the roster to the point where we are ready to compete for the playoffs constantly. So if we want to sign any February FA's we are going to have do overpay.

I was looking at a list of FA's and there was only ONE OT in the first 20 (T Smith at 14) he's the only lock LT available and HE has a long history of injuries and missed games) The next OT on the list was TBrown at 22 with Owenu the next at 25. So clearly the BEST option is to sign our own guy as our OL FA signings. Unfortunately this isn't a great OT FA class and I have mixed feelings about Trent. He's great when he plays and is motivated, but he is a guy who seems to play when he feels like it. I'm not sure I want that kind of selfish guy on my team. But maybe Mayo HAS a connection to him that will get to be the guy we saw in 2018 again.

The WR group looks decent, but our current QB situation again doesn't make us a destination for any true #1 WR's However there is a deep class of DL/Edge guys who I think would be an upgrade over Uche. Guys like Allen, Burns, and Huff. Guys who would be #1s on most teams. Signing one of the make our pass rush simply DANGEROUS.

Make no mistake about it Bill can STILL coach and game plane at an elite level.


True for defense but I do not believe its true on offense. He could not game plan for offense.
How can you call him a great head coach when the offense was horrendous.
Great defensive coach yes

 

[patfanken]

BTW, can anyone tell me what happened to make us picking at the bottom of the 3rd rather than the top?

Ken, as far as I know they picking where they should.

Round 1: Pick 3
Round 2: Pick 34
Round 3: Pick 68
Round 4: Pick 103
Round 5: Pick 135
Round 6: Pick 181
Round 7 (via Chicago Bears): Pick 22

It just occurred to me after scrolling past Steve's post. Aren't we supposed to get a couple of compensatory draft picks for hiring a minority HC. I kinda of remember other teams getting picks for hiring HC's and coordinators. Am I right or will they be added next year?

 

[venecol]

It just occurred to me after scrolling past Steve's post. Aren't we supposed to get a couple of compensatory draft picks for hiring a minority HC. I kinda of remember other teams getting picks for hiring HC's and coordinators. Am I right or will they be added next year?

You're not right.

First, it has to be an external minority.
Second, it's the team that loses the minority that gets the picks not the one hiring.
Third, the minority has to be with the team that loses them at least two years.

So the Rams will get two picks because ATL hired Raheem as HC.

Bucs don't get any picks for Canales going to CAR as HC because he was only there a year.

Pats get ****.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It is a complete overstatement to say Bill had "contempt for the offense" We consistently had a top 10 offense and it WASN'T just because we had Tom Brady. And he didn't neglect it. Just look at how many first round picks in this decade were on the offensive side. IIRC last season was he first one this decade where we DIDN'T go offensive with our first pick

2006: Maroney (O)
2007: Meriweather (D)
2008: Mayo (D)
2009: None
2010: McCourty (D)
2011: Solder (O)
2012: Jones, Hightower (D,D)
2013: None
2014: Easley (D)
2015: Brown (D)
2016: None
2017: None
2018: Wynn, Michel (O,O)
2019: Harry (O)
2020: None


After 2006, there was only one offensive player chosen in round one until the 2018 draft, and that was a tackle. During that same time frame, there were 7 defensive players chosen, and 4 years without making a first round pick.

 

[neuronet]

Great stuff PFC! Hope your health is on the up and up, and really happy to see you post

Only one thing I recoiled at: McDaniels back as OC?

 

[patfanken]

You're not right.

First, it has to be an external minority.
Second, it's the team that loses the minority that gets the picks not the one hiring.
Third, the minority has to be with the team that loses them at least two years.

So the Rams will get two picks because ATL hired Raheem as HC.

Bucs don't get any picks for Canales going to CAR as HC because he was only there a year.

Pats get ****.

Thanks for the feedback, I am now smarter than I was a minute ago

 

[venecol]

Thanks for the feedback, I am now smarter than I was a minute ago

I was confused about this for a while. It seemed to me that the team hiring/promoting the minority HC should be rewarded. League thought it more important to reward the team that developed him first, to be available for a promotion. That kinda makes more sense.

 

[neuronet]

I was confused about this for a while. It seemed to me that the team hiring/promoting the minority HC should be rewarded. League thought it more important to reward the team that developed him first, to be available for a promotion. That kinda makes more sense.

wonder why has to be external to count.

 

[venecol]

wonder why has to be external to count.

Good point.