What's the story with Vereen?

[moosekill]

OK I'll type this slowly so some of you can comprehend this. We were 21/2 running backs shy coming into this season. We drafted two running backs in the draft. Running backs get hurt a lot. Therefore they needed to get two.

Couple that with the fact that, my belief is, running backs are very difficult to draft and easy to miss on. So much of their success is based upon their line and their qb. Why wouldn't you pick up 2 rb's with higher picks if you thought they could both be very good in the long run.

So far this year our two main running backs haven't gotten hurt, that coupled with Faulk's return has meant we haven't needed to use all of the running backs we have on the roster. The rookie who was hurt in preseason hasn't shown enough yet to beat out our other 4 backs. Does that mean it was a bad pick, no, does it mean it was a great pick, no, it means we have no clue yet, and some of the brilliance expressed on this thread has once again exposed the great reasoning abilities of some of our posters here.

 

[mgteich]

You posted that
"BJGE was never going anywhere, he was an exclusive rights FA."

The implication was that we had nothing to worry about since Green-Ellis had no choice but to sign with us for chump change for a starting running back. Well that simply wasn't true unless we were willing to match any ridiculous contract that was offered to Green-Ellis.

Green-Ellis was a RESTRICTED FREE AGENT.
================================
TO BE CLEAR

1) Do you disagree? Or do you still think than Green-Ellis was an exclusive rights free agent?

2) Should Belichick have really just ASSUMED that no one else would give this 1000 yard back a lot of cash, given the amount of money some teams had available (money was NOT an issue for many teams)?

3) Was Belichick so out of line using the 2nd and 3rd round on two different kind of running backs? I understand that some would have preferred Ingram instead. Should Belichick be faulted because only one of his two choices has contributed so far in their rookie seasons? Should Belichick be faulted because Vareen was injured?

MY BOTTOM LINE
I would have been OK with drafting Ingram. I am OK with drafting Vareen and Ridley (actually Ingram would ahve cost a bit more draft value than the pair that Belichick chose).
===============================

Is there some sort of group discount this board could get on a reading comprehension class?

BB told Faulk before the lockout he wanted him back on the team, Woodhead was already signed and BJGE had no chance at unrestricted free agency. We don't need a fifth RB if he never sees the field or play much special teams.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK I'll type this slowly so some of you can comprehend this. We were 21/2 running backs shy coming into this season. We drafted two running backs in the draft. Running backs get hurt a lot. Therefore they needed to get two.

Couple that with the fact that, my belief is, running backs are very difficult to draft and easy to miss on. So much of their success is based upon their line and their qb. Why wouldn't you pick up 2 rb's with higher picks if you thought they could both be very good in the long run.

So far this year our two main running backs haven't gotten hurt, that coupled with Faulk's return has meant we haven't needed to use all of the running backs we have on the roster. The rookie who was hurt in preseason hasn't shown enough yet to beat out our other 4 backs. Does that mean it was a bad pick, no, does it mean it was a great pick, no, it means we have no clue yet, and some of the brilliance expressed on this thread has once again exposed the great reasoning abilities of some of our posters here.

The team needed 0 running backs in the draft. It could have gotten them in free agency (including UDFAs), as it's done so often. It chose to use 2 picks in the draft, and one of the two picks has yet to have his first carry this year. I think it's too soon to be calling Vereen a bust, but your "I'll type this slowly so some of you can comprehend this" was a ridiculously wrong way to go.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I don't buy it...how is keeping the 185 pound Woodhead in there better than what Vereen can provide?

Just the last game against the Jets i recall Woodhead getting blown up by one of the jets scrubs for a sack.

Yeah - but the point isn't that a backup defensive player seriously outweighs and overpowered a RB.

The point is was that Woodhead was where he needed to be.

Whether its Vareen or Woodhead, they're not much more than speedbumps to slow, not stop a player in their blocking assignments.

Maybe Vareen could be a better speedbump but if he doesn't have his blocking assignments down he could be in the wrong parking lot.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

You posted that
"BJGE was never going anywhere, he was an exclusive rights FA."

The implication was that we had nothing to worry about since Green-Ellis had no choice but to sign with us for chump change for a starting running back. Well that simply wasn't true unless we were willing to match any ridiculous contract that was offered to Green-Ellis.

Green-Ellis was a RESTRICTED FREE AGENT.
================================
TO BE CLEAR

1) Do you disagree? Or do you still think than Green-Ellis was an exclusive rights free agent?

2) Should Belichick have really just ASSUMED that no one else would give this 1000 yard back a lot of cash, given the amount of money some teams had available (money was NOT an issue for many teams)?

3) Was Belichick so out of line using the 2nd and 3rd round on two different kind of running backs? I understand that some would have preferred Ingram instead. Should Belichick be faulted because only one of his two choices has contributed so far in their rookie seasons? Should Belichick be faulted because Vareen was injured?

MY BOTTOM LINE
I would have been OK with drafting Ingram. I am OK with drafting Vareen and Ridley (actually Ingram would ahve cost a bit more draft value than the pair that Belichick chose).
===============================

You're right about the restricted as opposed to exclusive right FA and no I don't think anyone would have signed him once the Pats tendered him at the second round level. The days of teams losing restricted FA's are over and I don't believe another team would have given up a 2nd rounder for BJGE in a million years.

My issue that I have repeated a hundred times now is using the 2nd rounder on a RB that can't block for a team that having the RB block is a necessity and requirement, therefore it is very unlikely that he will be able get on the field.

I don't have a problem drafting a running back if there is a chance he would play. Vereen can't block, so the Patriots won't play him. It's a predictable outcome and that is what I have a problem with.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

OK I'll type this slowly so some of you can comprehend this. We were 21/2 running backs shy coming into this season. We drafted two running backs in the draft. Running backs get hurt a lot. Therefore they needed to get two.

Couple that with the fact that, my belief is, running backs are very difficult to draft and easy to miss on. So much of their success is based upon their line and their qb. Why wouldn't you pick up 2 rb's with higher picks if you thought they could both be very good in the long run.

So far this year our two main running backs haven't gotten hurt, that coupled with Faulk's return has meant we haven't needed to use all of the running backs we have on the roster. The rookie who was hurt in preseason hasn't shown enough yet to beat out our other 4 backs. Does that mean it was a bad pick, no, does it mean it was a great pick, no, it means we have no clue yet, and some of the brilliance expressed on this thread has once again exposed the great reasoning abilities of some of our posters here.

Running Backs are probably the easiest to draft and the most ready to contribute coming out of college.

 

[moosekill]

Running Backs are probably the easiest to draft and the most ready to contribute coming out of college.

No, linemen are easy to draft, running backs aren't.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Alot of us wanted RB's drafted in the lower rounds for depth. This run game was fine last year with BJGE and Woodhead, one was a UDFA and the other was waived by the Jets. Nobody's going to argue the fact that depth was needed but you can very well argue the use of a 2nd and a 3rd rounder, especially given the lack of production from the 2 picks despite injuries to BJGE and Faulk/Woodhead not being as effective as usual. If we had a stacked team with no weaknesses, yeah I could see using a higher pick or 2 for depth or a chance at an upgrade. But this team is CLEARLY not in that position now we have several bigger needs. If RB was a glaring weakness or our main ballhandler was on his last wheels that's also understandable, clearly not the case here either. People have every right to question the picks. There were plenty of depth options available to sit on the sidelines in case we needed them.

 

[moosekill]

The team needed 0 running backs in the draft. It could have gotten them in free agency (including UDFAs), as it's done so often. It chose to use 2 picks in the draft, and one of the two picks has yet to have his first carry this year. I think it's too soon to be calling Vereen a bust, but your "I'll type this slowly so some of you can comprehend this" was a ridiculously wrong way to go.

They could have traded for one too, not quite sure what your post has to do with anything, they needed 2, they got 2.

I just get so tired of people *****in about draft picks that don't immediately become starters. When you come to a 14-2 team, or whatever they were last year, it is tough to beat out the starters, it doesn't mean you are a bust.

 

[Reckedtrek]

I assume you get all of your Patriot news directly from Bill Belichick, that is when you're not attending the closed team practices yourself.

No, wise ass. I just realize that BB and the Pats do not typically give out info to the media. Therefore I find it reasonable to assume that unless it comes from BB or a Pats rep or player (and even then I'm skeptical because BB & Co. have been known to through a curve ball in their quotes) that most of what is said in the media is based on speculation, or at least incomplete information at best. As a result, I don't take them seriously. You do. I'm not sure why you're getting so dramatic with the extra large bold fonts, etc... lighten up, Francis.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

No, wise ass. I just realize that BB and the Pats do not typically give out info to the media. Therefore I find it reasonable to assume that unless it comes from BB or a Pats rep or player (and even then I'm skeptical because BB & Co. have been known to through a curve ball in their quotes) that most of what is said in the media is based on speculation, or at least incomplete information at best. As a result, I don't take them seriously. You do. I'm not sure why you're getting so dramatic with the extra large bold fonts, etc... lighten up, Francis.

I guess you're the answer man then, only you have the secret decoder ring.

It's getting very tiring even responding to you because all you do is throw out ridiculous accusations that I'm reporting this as fact and that as fact. You asked for a link and I provided a link. Doesn't mean I think anything reported by on a website is fact. Who's the dramatic one? It's childish hyperbole from you because you can't debate someone with distorting the facts.

The quote from Stripes - how clever, I bet you're the first person to use to it. Very original.

 

[sbpatfan]

I'm not sure who I hate more between Shane Vereen and Taylor Price.

 

[RayClay]

Has anyone called him a bust? Nobody should be called a bust 9 games into his rookie season. However Patriot second and third picks that don't work out all seem to follow this all too familiar path.

And then the question of whether drafting the "5th RB in a passing offense" in the second round was the best use of the pick when there were clearly other more pressing needs.

Zero losing seasons in ten years. Low to worst picks every year.

Could be the home team has some inkling how to acquire players. Just saying...

Perhaps you should follow some teams that have the top pick in the second round every year and analyze why they still continue to suck.

 

[RayClay]

I'm not sure who I hate more between Shane Vereen and Taylor Price.

Hate is a self destructive emotion. Perhaps you should take up a hobby like crocheting. I hear it's very relaxing.

Meanwhile the local team is looking pretty good these days. Despite having no idea how to stock the roster, that is.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Zero losing seasons in ten years. Low to worst picks every year.

Could be the home team has some inkling how to acquire players. Just saying...

Perhaps you should follow some teams that have the top pick in the second round every year and analyze why they still continue to suck.

Sorry having a discussion or debating the merit of a draft pick is so offensive to you and some other members of the board. What do you want to have 100% agreement in every thread? Are you so fragile that you can't handle an opposing opinion without telling someone to go root for another team?

All of the other 17 RBs drafted through round 5 this year have seen the field. The only one who hasn't is Vereen and it's not like we haven't been down this road before.

Very simply, his blocking most likely is keeping him of the field, his blocking was a known weakness but they drafted him anyway and what do you know, he hasn't seen the field yet. Predictable outcome.

 

[alvinnf]

Sorry having a discussion or debating the merit of a draft pick is so offensive to you and some other members of the board. What do you want to have 100% agreement in every thread? Are you so fragile that you can't handle an opposing opinion without telling someone to go root for another team?

All of the other 17 RBs drafted through round 5 this year have seen the field. The only one who hasn't is Vereen and it's not like we haven't been down this road before.

Very simply, his blocking most likely is keeping him of the field, his blocking was a known weakness but they drafted him anyway and what do you know, he hasn't seen the field yet. Predictable outcome.

What is there to debate. He is a rookie running back on a passing team. Even if he was Walter Payton, he might not be able to get a look right away based on how the offense works. Secondly, the team is 6-3 with a HOF QB. They obviously feel comfortable with whom they have getting snaps.

 

[RayClay]

Sorry having a discussion or debating the merit of a draft pick is so offensive to you and some other members of the board. What do you want to have 100% agreement in every thread? Are you so fragile that you can't handle an opposing opinion without telling someone to go root for another team?

All of the other 17 RBs drafted through round 5 this year have seen the field. The only one who hasn't is Vereen and it's not like we haven't been down this road before.

Very simply, his blocking most likely is keeping him of the field, his blocking was a known weakness but they drafted him anyway and what do you know, he hasn't seen the field yet. Predictable outcome.

You admit yourself he hasn't played enough to debate his merit, so why bother? He's either going to play more and Faulk less, or they'll use someone else in that role. You can't play everybody and BB prefers to play the guys who know what they're doing. He's always been like that. a new guy who plays a role similar to two vets on the team who was injured in camp isn't likely to play much.

Sorry, if I've offended you, carry on with your suppositions based on not much.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

What is there to debate. He is a rookie running back on a passing team. Even if he was Walter Payton, he might not be able to get a look right away based on how the offense works. Secondly, the team is 6-3 with a HOF QB. They obviously feel comfortable with whom they have getting snaps.

You admit yourself he hasn't played enough to debate his merit, so why bother? He's either going to play more and Faulk less, or they'll use someone else in that role. You can't play everybody and BB prefers to play the guys who know what they're doing. He's always been like that. a new guy who plays a role similar to two vets on the team who was injured in camp isn't likely to play much.

Sorry, if I've offended you, carry on with your suppositions based on not much.

This is getting repetitive and boring now, So you're both saying he's not needed now, that's why he isn't playing? Now if he's not needed and can't block on a team that stresses an ability to block than it raises the question - Was drafting a player that isn't needed and whose main weakness is guaranteed to keep him on the bench the best use of a draft pick and a high one at that? It's the same point I've explained a hundred times in this thread. If we don't need the help at RB, we surely could use at other positions, especially on defense.

And I didn't admit he hasn't played enough to debate his merit, I'd admit he hasn't done anything to warrant playing time which is the only assumption that can be proven. He hasn't earned any playing time but Ridley, drafted after him did and Faulk a 35 yo who missed 8 weeks did.

 

[RayClay]

This is getting repetitive and boring now, So you're both saying he's not needed now, that's why he isn't playing? Now if he's not needed and can't block on a team that stresses an ability to block than it raises the question - Was drafting a player that isn't needed and whose main weakness is guaranteed to keep him on the bench the best use of a draft pick and a high one at that? It's the same point I've explained a hundred times in this thread. If we don't need the help at RB, we surely could use at other positions, especially on defense.

And I didn't admit he hasn't played enough to debate his merit, I'd admit he hasn't done anything to warrant playing time which is the only assumption that can be proven. He hasn't earned any playing time but Ridley, drafted after him did and Faulk a 35 yo who missed 8 weeks did.

I don't know if he's needed, I'm not the coach. I did follow the draft and realize the guy is more of a third down type, very similar to Faulk and Woodhead. Faulk's going to hang it up any time now, and Woodhead seems to me to have a limited upside, but I'm not the personnel and draft expert, I'm just somebody with a keyboard.

 

[sbpatfan]

Hate is a self destructive emotion. Perhaps you should take up a hobby like crocheting. I hear it's very relaxing.

Meanwhile the local team is looking pretty good these days. Despite having no idea how to stock the roster, that is.

When did you learn how to use a computer Grandma?