PostGame Thread Week 12 PostGame Thread: NE Loses 10-7 to NYG

[goheels22002]

I am still kind of impressed with this defense. It’s still a pretty solid unit. They’ve lost a lot of guys but are still playing good football and held teams to 10 points in two straight weeks. Those are not games you should be losing.

This defense is tied for 9th in defensive points allowed with the Vikings and the Packers. The defense is allowing 19.8 points/game while being 29th in Time of Possession. The Patriots' ineptitude and turnovers does not sustain drives and puts way too much pressure on the defense.

If the Patriots could score just 23ppg they'd be over .500.

 

[Ivan]

Mac is broken. He has been given a crap deal the last two years and it has broken him. A mentally tough QB could overcome it. Mac isn’t mentally tough.

Mac also hasn’t improved as an athlete. You can make your throwing arm stronger just as you can as a pitcher, or as a golfer can gain club head speed, he’s shown no improvement in it at all. You can also learn how to process plays quicker, and improve your mobility in the pocket, he’s done neither.. Has he been dealt a tough hand at time? Yes, he has, but ultimately you have to take responsibility and improve individually to succeed at anything, and he hasn’t done that. Maybe he will do so, catch on elsewhere, and turn into a back up, but he’s toast in New C England, and they will move on next April.

 

[denverpatsfan]

I disagree with you about yesterday. The Pats had a shot to win in regulation and didn't even try to take a shot for a TD. Granted having Zappe was the biggest issue in that because they don't trust him to make much more than quick dump offs because he cannot read defenses. But when you are 2-8, it is worth taking a shot.

Plus they wasted a time out that could have have come back to bite them in the arse doing that stupid wild cat fake trying to get the Giants to go offsides. I don't think he should have done that and just punted the ball, but when they did they were better off taking the delay of game penalty.

I am sorry, but I question far too many of Belichick's coaching decisions these days than ever. He seems to make a lot of bad decisions. He is way too overly cautious when the league is becoming more aggressive especially going for it on 4th downs. The fact that Belichick rarely goes for it on fourth downs probably is the reason why they didn't bite on the fake wild cat.

Can't agree more. Why line up just to waste a time out? The team stinks. Run the play. Go for it on 4th down. Throw to the end zone rather than meekly go for OT.

 

[venecol]

They do have Douglas which kinda makes up for that, and I don't think Nucua would have had 900 there if Kupp had been healthy.

Yea, obviously not but I believe he's still the leading receiver since Kupp returned.

 

[goheels22002]

People bashing the defense after losing at the time their two best players at two crucial positions. SMH

I'd add Marcus Jones to the loss of Matthew Judon and Christian Gonzalez.

I posted this a few minutes ago, but it's worth dropping it in again:

The Patriots are 9th in the NFL in defensive points allowed and 29th in Time of Possession. This offense is not doing its part to sustain drives and keep the defense off the field. The Patriots defense is doing its part.

 

[goheels22002]

I disagree with you about yesterday. The Pats had a shot to win in regulation and didn't even try to take a shot for a TD. Granted having Zappe was the biggest issue in that because they don't trust him to make much more than quick dump offs because he cannot read defenses. But when you are 2-8, it is worth taking a shot.

Plus they wasted a time out that could have have come back to bite them in the arse doing that stupid wild cat fake trying to get the Giants to go offsides. I don't think he should have done that and just punted the ball, but when they did they were better off taking the delay of game penalty.

I am sorry, but I question far too many of Belichick's coaching decisions these days than ever. He seems to make a lot of bad decisions. He is way too overly cautious when the league is becoming more aggressive especially going for it on 4th downs. The fact that Belichick rarely goes for it on fourth downs probably is the reason why they didn't bite on the fake wild cat.

We can certainly argue both points. I think they should have snapped the ball to 6'5", 248 lb Hunter Henry and let him and the line surge for the first down. But, so it goes.

As far as the field goal try to get into OT, it was the right call to me particularly after the TD scoring drive that Zappe and the running backs manufactured. I just don't see the proof that Zappe could get a TD late with less than a minute to work with. They needed to run the ball and did not have the time to do that.

But that's just a couple of plays. They didn't lose because of those two judgement calls. The major reasons they lost were the interceptions and maybe because they elected to have Mac Jones throw 23 passes in the first half instead of a run-first offense.

It's hard watching this team play so poorly.

 

[patsinthesnow]

The barmore breakout season is here. The pats run defense is #1 in the NFL at 3.4 ypc against. He’s playing starter snaps, has 20 run stops & 5 batted passes. Probably the biggest positive of this mess of a season.

 

[upstater1]

Cam Newton was resigned with the Patriots on March 12, 2021. Free agency started on March 17. How do we know he didn't have any suitors when he never hit free agency. He wasn't going to be a guy who was going to be signed day one of free agency.

And he was the starter all training camp and all preseason and Belichick said he was going to be the starter. Of course he could very well have been the starter going into the season. What if they didn't Jones, all the first round starters were gone by the time the Patriots picked at 15, and they didn't draft a QB until the second or third round. Odds were good that Newton would have been the starter potentially all of 2021.

Newton was never the long term starter, but it seemed pretty clear the plan was he was going to be the starter to start the 2021 season and potentially the entire season. Hell, right up until the end of preseason, it was believed he would start and Mac would eventually take over during the season.

And Mac wasn't awful all last year. He had stretches where he was average to good last year.

You're allowed to talk to teams on March 1st.

In fact, we signed Algholor on the 15th.

We signed Newton to backup money.

We totally disagree on Mac. He was absolutely putrid last year. You're one of the last remaining Mac holdouts.

 

[upstater1]

Why can't there be a middle ground here in where we recognize Bill's past greatness, but also can be honest about his major shortcomings in the present?

Bill is one of the greatest coaches of all time, and no it wasn't JUST all Brady. I watched way too many defensive masterclasses, 2008 when he lead Matt Cassel to an 11-5 record, and 2016 when he was plugging in QB after QB and still dominating quality opponents. There's endless proof that he has been an amazing coach.

But recent results do matter for right now. Coaches can decline the way players decline. There are countless all-time great HC's who dipped off at the end of their careers. (Landry, Noll, even Shula underachieved big time late in his career with Marino in his prime) Bill is clearly hitting that same decline. His decline as a GM has been ongoing for a decade now, and now it looks like his coaching capability is hitting that same decline as well.

His advanced age has coincided with a total rebuild.

50+ players on this team joined in 2021.

 

[sb1]

I disagree with you about yesterday. The Pats had a shot to win in regulation and didn't even try to take a shot for a TD. Granted having Zappe was the biggest issue in that because they don't trust him to make much more than quick dump offs because he cannot read defenses. But when you are 2-8, it is worth taking a shot.

Plus they wasted a time out that could have have come back to bite them in the arse doing that stupid wild cat fake trying to get the Giants to go offsides. I don't think he should have done that and just punted the ball, but when they did they were better off taking the delay of game penalty.

I am sorry, but I question far too many of Belichick's coaching decisions these days than ever. He seems to make a lot of bad decisions. He is way too overly cautious when the league is becoming more aggressive especially going for it on 4th downs. The fact that Belichick rarely goes for it on fourth downs probably is the reason why they didn't bite on the fake wild cat.

That was ridiculous. Why on earth would BB be playing "safe" now. The season is over. And the miss is exactly what they deserved for that.

Inexcusable.

 

[Rob0729]

You're allowed to talk to teams on March 1st.

In fact, we signed Algholor on the 15th.

We signed Newton to backup money.

We totally disagree on Mac. He was absolutely putrid last year. You're one of the last remaining Mac holdouts.

The Pats signed Newton to less money in 2020 than they did in 2021. Was he a back up in 2020? Must have been because he got third string QB money that season.

Again, the Pats didn't draft Mac Jones until April 29, 2021. When the Pats signed Agholor, Bourne, Henry, and Smith, Newton was the only QB on the roster except for Hoyer. At that point, the 49ers hadn't even traded up yet. So there was no way for the Pats to know if they would have a rookie QB who could start day one when they signed those guys. It seemed extremely obvious that Newton was there to start the season. Hell, that is why he asked for and got his release when Jones was named the starter. Because Newton thought he was going to start.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

The people who keep on saying "were throwing out the past 20 years just because of 1 bad season" are deliberately not understanding.

We know he had great defensive gameplans. The point is that Bill's flaws would have gotten in the way of his great defenses if he didn't have a QB specifcally like Tom Brady with:

1) his on-field play, consistency and clutchness

2) him taking paycuts and only getting 1 mega large contract

3) his leadership and getting others to buy in (Brady never publicly threw his coaches under the bus like Rodgers and Big Ben did)


This "1 bad season" isn't a fluke. It's the logical conclusion a Belichick-ran operation is capable of looking like long-term when there's nothing to mask his flaws. Bad receivers, alienated QB, mediocre coaching staff, dejected locker room, questionable decision-making, etc.

 

[RIpats88]

The people who keep on saying "were throwing out the past 20 years just because of 1 bad season" are deliberately not understanding.

We know he had great defensive gameplans. The point is that Bill's flaws would have gotten in the way of his great defenses if he didn't have a QB specifcally like Tom Brady with:

1) his on-field play, consistency and clutchness

2) him taking paycuts and only getting 1 mega large contract

3) his leadership and getting others to buy in (Brady never publicly threw his coaches under the bus like Rodgers and Big Ben did)


This "1 bad season" isn't a fluke. It's the logical conclusion a Belichick-ran operation is capable of looking like long-term when there's nothing to mask his flaws. Bad receivers, alienated QB, mediocre coaching staff, dejected locker room, questionable decision-making, etc.

Also, Bills "bad decisions" olin drafting the last 5-10 years have lead to this "1 bad season".

It's a team devoid of talent all over

 

[cmasspatsfan]

The people who keep on saying "were throwing out the past 20 years just because of 1 bad season" are deliberately not understanding.

We know he had great defensive gameplans. The point is that Bill's flaws would have gotten in the way of his great defenses if he didn't have a QB specifcally like Tom Brady with:

1) his on-field play, consistency and clutchness

2) him taking paycuts and only getting 1 mega large contract

3) his leadership and getting others to buy in (Brady never publicly threw his coaches under the bus like Rodgers and Big Ben did)


This "1 bad season" isn't a fluke. It's the logical conclusion a Belichick-ran operation is capable of looking like long-term when there's nothing to mask his flaws. Bad receivers, alienated QB, mediocre coaching staff, dejected locker room, questionable decision-making, etc.

Are you saying because of Bill we only won 6 super bowls?

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Are you saying because of Bill we only won 6 super bowls?

I'm saying that Bill had some good and some bad. And the "bad" would have hurt his effectiveness and success a lot more if Tom Brady wasn't QB.

Some other coach might be better in other aspects, but might have their own flaws. For instance, Bruce Arians playcalling was too over aggressive/vertical, and the operation was a little bit too loose their. But he's a better player's coach and he still knows how to coach on offense better than Bill.

Bill definitely cost us 1-2 super bowls with the Malcom Butler benching and the WR ineptitude in 2006. But he had other great enough moments and gameplans that it is what it is and can be discussed later

 

[Uptown]

 

[Twentytothree]

Why can't there be a middle ground here in where we recognize Bill's past greatness, but also can be honest about his major shortcomings in the present?

Bill is one of the greatest coaches of all time, and no it wasn't JUST all Brady. I watched way too many defensive masterclasses, 2008 when he lead Matt Cassel to an 11-5 record, and 2016 when he was plugging in QB after QB and still dominating quality opponents. There's endless proof that he has been an amazing coach.

But recent results do matter for right now. Coaches can decline the way players decline. There are countless all-time great HC's who dipped off at the end of their careers. (Landry, Noll, even Shula underachieved big time late in his career with Marino in his prime) Bill is clearly hitting that same decline. His decline as a GM has been ongoing for a decade now, and now it looks like his coaching capability is hitting that same decline as well.

QFT.

Arguing that BB was never good is moronic. But recent evidence is not in his favor, and it seems very unlikely that he will suddenly find his mojo again in his mid-seventies. Pats will have a high draft pick and lots of cap space next year. If they squander that, it will be a really long road back to the top. The Krafts should really think carefully if BB at 72 is the right guy to make the upcoming critical decisions and coach a new QB to success over another 2-3 years.

 

[50-yard-line]

The barmore breakout season is here. The pats run defense is #1 in the NFL at 3.4 ypc against. He’s playing starter snaps, has 20 run stops & 5 batted passes. Probably the biggest positive of this mess of a season.

Barmore really stands out. There have been a few other pleasant surprises - Tavai. Jennings, Sow.

 

[Twentytothree]

Barmore really stands out. There have been a few other pleasant surprises - Tavai. Jennings, Sow.

Impressed that the defense is still playing hard, sad to see it go to total waste.

 

[signbabybrady]

The people who keep on saying "were throwing out the past 20 years just because of 1 bad season" are deliberately not understanding.

We know he had great defensive gameplans. The point is that Bill's flaws would have gotten in the way of his great defenses if he didn't have a QB specifcally like Tom Brady with:

1) his on-field play, consistency and clutchness

2) him taking paycuts and only getting 1 mega large contract

3) his leadership and getting others to buy in (Brady never publicly threw his coaches under the bus like Rodgers and Big Ben did)


This "1 bad season" isn't a fluke. It's the logical conclusion a Belichick-ran operation is capable of looking like long-term when there's nothing to mask his flaws. Bad receivers, alienated QB, mediocre coaching staff, dejected locker room, questionable decision-making, etc.

Please point to me the system that works without great QB play?