PostGame Thread OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD: Patriots lose to Raiders 21-17

[venecol]

Let me say this, hopefully for the last time:
KRAFT IS NOT CHEAP.
Yes, the salary cap and cash spending aren't the same. But it doesn't change a simple fact: every team gets a certain number of dollars each year to spend. The only way that a team ultimately doesn't end up spending every dollar of that is to refuse to roll over excess cap dollars to the following year. The Patriots aren't doing that. If the Patriots are rolling $10M over every year, that doesn't mean Kraft is pocketing $10M every year. It means they're rolling the same $10M every single year.
If you look at the teams that have the most cash spending over the last three years, here's where they rank in 2024 cap space:
1. Browns: 25th in cap space
2. Bills: 29th
3. Ravens: 22nd
4. Jaguars: 19th
5. Dolphins: 30th
6. Broncos: 28th
7. JEST: 21st
8. Chargers: 31st

I wonder why it is that the teams that have spent the most all rank in the bottom half of free cap space. In fact, every team has to spend a certain amount over specified periods, and has to pay out any shortage to the players who were on that team. [By this measure, BTW, the Patriots are 20th over the last three years, and 1st in cap space.]

If you want to make the argument that they are mis-spending money—spending too much on X, too little on Y—that's fine. But saying they're cheap is just bull.

It's all about the guaranteed money. Patriots are not known for contracts with large guarantees. Aside from '21 when they spent the most cash in the league, when Kraft said he never had to write so many checks. We saw how that turned out.

 

[venecol]

Man I love you, but Mac hasn't had close to perfect at any point since he's been here. He currently has the worst offensive line in the league, a horrible running back set, and the worst WR corp at getting seperation.

And let's be real.... you need people to show to have 4QC. When you receivers can't make toe touches (Eagles) or drop dimes that should get you at the edge of field goal range (Raiders) you aren't making those comebacks.

Hoyer played like crap and he was throwing to Adams and Meyers and had Jacobs as a running back. Hoyer routinely underperformed with Hopkns in Houston. Hoyer stunk it up last year on this team.

This is just a bad team. Independent of QB, this is a bottom tier team.

I'm not disputing the team is bad. I've been saying that for 3 years. That's on Bill. Mac is on Bill also. Bill needs to go first, followed by Mac.

 

[venecol]

 

[lancerman]

I'm not disputing the team is bad. I've been saying that for 3 years. That's on Bill. Mac is on Bill also. Bill needs to go first, followed by Mac.

I agree with this. That is the order. Get rid of Bill, have someone else do the team building. Drop Mac next.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Not really sure why people give a crap about BB being fired in season. Did they cry about players being released or traded?

Bill has lost the locker room, lost his mind, and lost any benefit of the doubt. He should be gone now. The 3 yr contract to Cunningham is atrocious and could be a foreshadowing of more insane moves to pretend he has some kind of master plan.

He’s already ****ed the team so badly with backloaded contracts and can kicking extensions while bringing in no draft capital.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Reddit - Dive into anything

reddit.com

What pressure does to even the “elite” quarterbacks.

 

[sb1]

This is a weird hill to die upon, but okay, let's look at this.

Trey Lance was drafted in 2021 and played 6 games, then 2 more in 2022 - these were all due to injuries to Jimmy G. He threw for 5 TDs and 3 Interceptions. He wasn't great, but for a rookie/2nd year guy who missed all of 2020 due to COVID cancelling the season and playing as a backup it wasn't horrible. More like Zappe, he played like a rookie backup QB

But one thing he didn't do was demonstrate that he had somehow completely forgotten how to play football. He wasn't throwing bonehead pick-sixes across the field that had a chance to gain 2 yards on a 2nd and 10 if it all worked out somehow. Hell, do a search on "Mac Jones Pick Six" and choose whichever one you like, there's plenty! I was just reminded by that search of this gem from last year:

Pick 6 against Jets Called Back

That is so not an NFL play it's hard to fathom what was going through his mind. The backfoot lobs to nowhere, the panic from ghost rushers, the inability to spot open receivers, the weak arm that doesn't drive the ball...which GM who has seen his film would consider anything other than a late round pick-swap? I highly doubt you'd even get that.

But don't worry, we'll see who's right soon enough because he ain't gonna be this team's QB after this year and hopefully before too many more games.

Zappe blows so I'm not sure you want to make that comparison. All Lance has is "potential" he's shown nothing so far in the NFL, he's not a starting QB and thus he was deemed worthy of a 4th round pick in a trade after the team spent 3 first rounders to pick him. Tells you everything you need to know about him. I think too many people are going back in a time machine to April 2021 and saying Lance is great because potential and high draft pick. I suspect if that's what he was , we would already know. At this point in time he isn't even better than Mac Jones.

The Patriots problems on offense go way beyond the QB. This ain't a one man fix no matter what fans think and it's gonna take time. And what is Mac's ceiling, do we know? How can any team evaluate any young QB playing behind an OL where 3/5th of them don't belong in the league, no running game so far and some of the worst collection of skill players on offense in the league. I can definitely see a team look at this situation and think Mac would be a better QB with a team in a better position on offense and I don't see why I should disagree with that. I agree with you that the team's patience with Jones is running out and he's probably not going to get the opportunity to prove himself with a better Patriots team around him. And I'm not saying Jones is awesome and he's the future, I'm saying that if I'm the Pats and I put Mac on the trade block, I would ask for a 3rd and accept a 4th like Lance got as the bare minimum. The market is set. Mac is a starting QB, Lance isn't so he really should fetch more in a trade.

 

[Patsgofor4]

I know peak Sebastian Vollmer and peak Marcus Cannon and Vegetarian Lowe is not peak Sebastian Vollmer or Peak Marcus Cannon.

Also, that may be one of the worst TE chip blocks in the history of the NFL by Gesicki. Not only does he whiff on the block, but then falls ass over tea kettle and takes himself out as an emergency option for Mac.

Finally, for all those who blame Mac for the safety, this vantage point gives you a true sense of how quickly two Raiders were on top of him (both interior and edge pressure). 4 missed blocks on the same play….center, LG, RT, TE.

 

[sb1]

I agree with this. That is the order. Get rid of Bill, have someone else do the team building. Drop Mac next.

Or hire the GM first and then let the GM decide on the direction of the team and then BB the coach's future. If the GM decides to make this an offensive focused roster and therefore there's no point having a defensive head coach anymore then BB and Kraft can decide on when to announce BB's retirement or exit from the team. The QB decision can follow from that.

 

[Sciz]

Or hire the GM first and then let the GM decide on the direction of the team and then BB the coach's future. If the GM decides to make this an offensive focused roster and therefore there's no point having a defensive head coach anymore then BB and Kraft can decide on when to announce BB's retirement or exit from the team. The QB decision can follow from that.

I’m pretty sure the Pats can’t even initiate a GM search until Belichick is no longer in that position. Asking Belichick to give up GM powers but stay on as HC long enough for the new GM to decide whether or not to keep him is certainly one of the worst ways to handle this that I can think of.

 

[sb1]

I’m pretty sure the Pats can’t even initiate a GM search until Belichick is no longer in that position. Asking Belichick to give up GM powers but stay on as HC long enough for the new GM to decide whether or not to keep him is certainly one of the worst ways to handle this that I can think of.

Kraft wouldn't need to tell him all of that he just has to tell him the team cannot keep him as GM anymore. Which I guess could be a way of firing him without firing him cause I don't think Bill will agree to being HC only for the team after 20+ years. But if he does then the GM can decide on the new coach whether it's Bill or someone else.

 

[Sciz]

Kraft wouldn't need to tell him all of that he just has to tell him the team cannot keep him as GM anymore. Which I guess could be a way of firing him without firing him cause I don't think Bill will agree to being HC only for the team after 20+ years. But if he does then the GM can decide on the new coach whether it's Bill or someone else.

It’s beyond unlikely. There’s no real reason to talk about Belichick sticking on as HC for a new GM, because it’s obviously not happening. Asking Belichick to agree to revise his contract to give up GM responsibilities and then still maybe not even stick around as HC is just way over the top absurd.

If the Pats want a new GM, Belichick is gone as both HC and GM immediately. It’s the only remotely realistic outcome of that.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I agree with you that the team's patience with Jones is running out

That's really an indictment of Belichick's entire approach to the offense since the end of the 2021 season. "Well, we didn't give you much of anything to help you develop, and put a bunch of obstacles in your path, too. Why didn't you develop into a franchise QB?"

 

[Kontradiction]

That's really an indictment of Belichick's entire approach to the offense since the end of the 2021 season. "Well, we didn't give you much of anything to help you develop, and put a bunch of obstacles in your path, too. Why didn't you develop into a franchise QB?"

Honestly, he might be ruined at this point.

 

[SVN]

lazar talking about route running by our WRs and asking what BOB and troy brown are teaching them

 

[SVN]

Raiders staffer points out concerningly ‘different' vibe with Patriots

The Patriots are still struggling to find themselves in the post-Tom Brady Era, and opponents are noticing, according to Patriots Insider Phil Perry.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

 

[venecol]

Raiders staffer points out concerningly ‘different' vibe with Patriots

The Patriots are still struggling to find themselves in the post-Tom Brady Era, and opponents are noticing, according to Patriots Insider Phil Perry.

www.nbcsportsboston.com

I guarantee a 51 yo Belichick could inspire the young players to assume leadership roles. A 71 yo Belichick, not so much. He's been done, time for all of us to move on.

 

[Uptown]

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Its one of our most important offseasons. Loads of cap space and most likely a top 5 pick. We are a couple years away at the least but very good chance to start building the foundation. Hope Kraft has a good plan in mind for gm, we cant afford to botch this one

tons of good offensive lineman coming out in FA next year

They should go broke fortifying the offensive line, then use the draft to select a QB of the future and a legit WR1 or elite TE1 (if there are any in this upcoming draft?). Regardless of where we go from here, whoever we stick back there at QB needs to have an offensive line that gives them the best chance to succeed

If we keep things the way they are now and just throw a new QB, especially a rookie, into this mess and expect them to magically fix everything then we're in for a long, miserable marathon of suck

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

tons of good offensive lineman coming out in FA next year

They should go broke fortifying the offensive line, then use the draft to select a QB of the future and a legit WR1 or elite TE1 (if there are any in this upcoming draft?). Regardless of where we go from here, whoever we stick back there at QB needs to have an offensive line that gives them the best chance to succeed

If we keep things the way they are now and just throw a new QB, especially a rookie, into this mess and expect them to magically fix everything then we're in for a long, miserable marathon of suck

We’ll have the resources to fix alot of things and set us up well for the future. Question is will we have a good GM in place to hit on it