Unnamed team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick

[Tasco]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

Would it be crazy to trade up for Derrick Morgan?

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

Ohh, no no. I was talking about Suh. People were talking about trading up for him, and I just don't see how he'd fit into our system unless we switch to a more permanent 4-3. So I was wondering if he could play end in a 3-4? I'm guessing he has played 3-4 at Alabama with Cody at nose?

obviously, people missed this one.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

Think of McNabb as a #1 pick, because that's what he's worth. The Eagles have screwed this up and blown his price.

Trade this year's #1 for Next year's #1 and this year's #2 (that's the O.P. rumor)
Trade this year's team #2 for Mcnabb

That nets the Raiders a #1 value this year (McNabb), a #2 this year (untraded #2), a #1 next year and a #2 next year. That's not bad maneuvering. Whether they can pull it off or not remains the question.

As for the Patriots, why wouldn't they give up a #2 if they were getting a #1 from the same year in its place? That's not the whole trade, but that's the part that you brought up.

McNabb is going to be 34 in November and is in the last year of his deal. You really think the Eagles could get a first rounder for him? I think think they are going to have a tough time getting a top 44 pick like they are asking. McNabb is a top talent, but he is in his mid-30s, has been injured a lot in the last few years, and is a free agent in 2011.

How many years does he have left? Remember he is a guy who throws better on the run than standing still and has only been healthy enough played a 16 game season one season (2008) since 2004 (he sat out one game in 2004, but I think it was to rest not health issues). I am guessing 2-3 years. Why would someone like the Raiders ever give up a top 10 pick for a guy who's career may be done before they actually become a Super Bowl contender.

I think if the Eagles get the Raiders' second rounder, it is coupe for the Eagles. I think Davis would be stupid to trade for McNabb because word is that he will not do a new deal for the Raiders and the Raiders would be forced to franchise him next year which could cost them close to or potentially over $20 million for one year (not sure what the franchise number for QBs will be next year since Brady, Brees, and Manning will all probably have new deals by then). That is a lot of money for a QB who will be 35 at the end of the season and has had only one injury free year in five season prior to acquiring him.

If McNabb was 30 and willing to redo his deal with the Raiders, I think it would be a coupe for the Raiders. At 33 (34 in November) and not willing to redo his contract in the last year of the deal, I don't think the Raiders win in a trade like that. Trade a high second rounder for potentially an one year rent a player who might get them to 8-8 or 9-7. Sounds like a trade Davis would do, but most GMs with their faculties wouldn't.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

Just want to re-post something I noted upthread:

BB is willing to make a trade before the draft without having a specific target in mind.

I'm not saying he's the one making the offer, but he could be.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

Just want to re-post something I noted upthread:

BB is willing to make a trade before the draft without having a specific target in mind.

I'm not saying he's the one making the offer, but he could be.

Is is not necessarily correct. BB has the temperment and sack to do so but whether or not BB is willing to make the pre draft trade this April is completely unlnown to us. As you say, could be, but I for one seriously doubt it, and certainly not the possible terms cited.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

There is no way we trade up to #8 to get JPP. I think he will fall big time come draft day. He's a project and at #8 id want a day one starter

Mclain/Spiller I could understand just about but when was the last time BB gave away picks to move up?

I still think were after Odrick at #22

 

[mgteich]

This year's 22 and next year's 32 for #8

Would you trade our 22 and next year's first for the #8?

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

If it's between McClain and Spiller, I'd go with McClain. ILB isn't as pressing of a need as other positions, but McClain and Mayo next to one another behind Wilfork will make this defense almost impossible to run on up the middle.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: This year's 22 and next year's 32 for #8

Would you trade our 22 and next year's first for the #8?

This thread is useless without a poll.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

Is is not necessarily correct. BB has the temperment and sack to do so but whether or not BB is willing to make the pre draft trade this April is completely unlnown to us. As you say, could be, but I for one seriously doubt it, and certainly not the possible terms cited.

That's not quite my point.

My point is that a fair number of posts are saying, "The Patriots must be targeting X." All I'm saying is that if BB is willing to make the offer, it doesn't mean he has someone specific in mind.

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

Re: This year's 22 and next year's 32 for #8

Ehhh I dunno is there anyone we'd be targetting in particular?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: This year's 22 and next year's 32 for #8

Considering the CBA situation and the depth of this years draft vs. the potential shallowness of 2011's, nope. I would trade this years 22 for a package of second, third, fourth round picks and/or possibly a player this season though...

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: This year's 22 and next year's 32 for #8

I've been saying for a few months that I would trade our Raiders 2011 pick next year

for a pick in round 1 this year if we can get at least into the top 15. If I could do that then

I would trade our own pick at #22 for a #1 next year and a #2 or a package of others.

We would then have a higher #1

Still have 2 #1's next year.

Additional picks in round 2 or 3 & 4.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

There have been times in the past (particularly back in the day when project QB's were drafted where they should be) when trading up for talent made sense because of the drop off after the first 6-12 players in the first to more or less glorified second rounders. This is a draft where there isn't really a top tier absent the QB's who are a crap shoot and of no interest to us and one or two defensive players who may or may not be worth the added $10M in guaranteed money they will command at #8 vs. similar talent at #22 (if they are even there at #8). There is supposedly otherwise first round graded talent this year midway through the second round, and second round talent midway through the third and third round talent well into the fourth. This is a year when you would not trade up except for a target, and you don't trade up for a target until you're reasonably sure it will be available...and it's worth not only $20M guaranteed but the value of an additional player with a first round grade you'd be giving up in the process.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

because the saints had all the pieces in place. they added a few vets and hired gregg williams who did a masterful job coaching the defense.

the pats on the other hand do not have all the players necessary to win a championship (as of today). they are sorely lacking WR depth, a pass rush, a consistent running game and a solid tight end.

i do agree that we should not have signed any of the big ticket free agents. there are a lot of players out there who get their guaranteed money and then sit.

So an 8-8 team had all the pieces in place to be a champion and didn't need a big move but a 10-6 does not have the pieces in place and is sorely lacking in 4 or 5 areas.

Look I am not saying that this team can do nothing and will be back to 07 form but I also think that plenty can go on internally to fix most of the Patriots problems and allow them to continue competeing for playoffs and SBs.

 

[ferdi1704]

Maybe he wants to trade down and get more 2 rounders or he may want to sign a restricted free agent like ray edwards with the 22 and use the 8 for mcclain or spiller

 

[Triumph]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

It's not about sacking the QB every play, it's about collapsing the pocket, pressuring the QB and forcing him to get the ball off. If a NFL quarterback consistently has 4 seconds or more to throw the ball, he's going to beat you. This is half the reason why our defensive backs played so deep last season, to avoid giving up the big plays since opponents' receivers had time to get down the field and stretch the coverage schemes.

If we can manufacture a decent pass rush then you only allow the QB a couple of seconds in the pocket at most, which means we can be more aggressive with our coverage.


There is some ridiculous thinking out there that each defensive position can be looked at in isolation. This is crazy, and even more so when applied to the defense. The better the corners, the more time the QB has to hold onto the ball, the more chance the pass rush has to get there. The better the pass rush, the quicker the QB has to get rid of the ball, the more chance of forcing throws, leading to incompletions and interceptions. It's exactly the same on run defense, a good defensive line makes your linebackers look good and vice versa.

What good is a pass rush with CBs that cannot cover?

You have Wilhite who doesnt look back for the ball and doesnt even belong on the team. Wheatley who gets hurt putting on his uniform. And, Butler, who you hope can play CB in the NFL. Thus far, he hasnt beat Wilhite out of a job and thats pathetic.

Bodden is mediocre.

Just like a good NT tackle is essential for a stellar run defense a TRUE CB is for a pass defense.

Not these jagoffs NE has been rolling out there like Hobbs and the rest. BUMS.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

Either BB or Kraft said that Al Davis offered a 2011 1 because he didn't want to give up his 2010 2.

At the time of the trade it was said that BB chose the 2011 1 instead of the 2010 1 because of the rookie pool changes. It was never stated anywhere I saw that the 2010 1 wasnt the orignal offer, that BB changed to the 2011 1. If any one has a link to other facts, please provide.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

I am not sure you got what I was saying.

The Seymour trade was big sey for a '11 first round pick.


The proposed trade is a 2010 2nd and 2011 first for a 2010 first (8 overall).


And then you said it didn't make sense for the Pats to part of the rumor because they could have made this so last year. But the truth (or at least so I have heard) is we were never really offered a 2010 first but a choice between a 2010 2nd or 2011 first.

I think the disagreement is that I and others believe the offer was the 2010 1, and BB requested the 2011 1 instead, because he did not want the 1 under these cap rules but under the new cap rules, where it would be much more valuable. Do you have a link to back up your version?

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Unnamed Team (Pats?) looking to trade for the Raiders #8 overall pick.

I think the disagreement is that I and others believe the offer was the 2010 1, and BB requested the 2011 1 instead, because he did not want the 1 under these cap rules but under the new cap rules, where it would be much more valuable. Do you have a link to back up your version?

As far I can remember, there was never indication that the Raiders were offering their 2010 first. It was always that the Pats were interested in the 2011 first. My guess is that if the Raiders were willing to give up the 2010 first, Belichick would have gotten more than just the 2011 first because a 2011 pick has around a round less value than than a 2010 pick.

If I was to lay money, I would bet that the Raiders offered their second in 2010 or their second in 2010 and some other value. Even if Belichick always wanted the 2011 pick, it wouldn't stop him to get fair value.