The Way We Hear It - Maualuga

[jays52]

So this is a bad write-up?

I didn't ask for regurgitation of cursory information.

 

[BadMoFo]

I didn't ask for regurgitation of cursory information.

So you don't like the stuff that the people at NFL Network are saying about him.

 

[TriplecHamp]

I don't care what Spikes' wonderlic is. What I do care about is the following:

1. Prior to the 2008 season Meyer went to him and openly challenged him with becoming the leader of a young defense. Spikes responded.

2. Spikes has showed excellent ability to take on OT's, including Andre Smith. He is strong, physical, and excellent at shedding blockers.

3. Spikes shows excellent ability to read defenses and drop into coverage. He is a much better pass defender than Maualuga and is able to cover TEs.

How can you criticize one players wonderlic and disregard another's? Anyway this is a quote from walterfootball: "Because of the progression he is shown throughout his career, I'm confident his instincts and leadership will improve even more in his senior season. Can play any scheme in the 4-3, but his ability to blitz and plug the run make him an elite fit for the 3-4." He is also better in zone coverage than given credit four.Long story short,You CANNOTbase a pick in one draft because you want another player in the future because. A: You don't know whats going to happen to that player in the future, Spikes could absolutely blow up and be a top 5 talent much like Curry is now. and B: and this would be unfortunate but injuries are apart of the game what if Spikes(God Forbid) tears an ACL?

I think Spikes is like Mayo, A good play-making, fluid hips LB. A good fit for WILB we need a run stuffing SILB and Mauluga IMO is the best fit in this Draft. A Great Blitzer with a nose for the ball and creates the big play. Maualuga may not be the best coverage LB but that is not what we are looking for in a SILB. Although it is a good quality it is not an absolute necessity. Maualuga also had 5 picks over his USC career so he can get his hands on the ball while its in the air.

 

[jays52]

So you don't like the stuff that the people at NFL Network are saying about him.

I'm really not trying to get into a pissing match here. However, I wrote what I see when I look at Maualuga. I also happen to know a thing or two about the position. I don't like overhyped players who's film doesn't matchup with what is said about the player. I trust my eyes more than I trust a writeup that scratches the surface for the average fan. I asked you to do an intelligent writeup that disproves what I have seen. You have said you are a USC fan, so you must have seen more games than myself. Just type what your eyes tell you and put it into the context of the player playing within the new england 2-gap 34 scheme.

 

[BadMoFo]

I'm really not trying to get into a pissing match here. However, I wrote what I see when I look at Maualuga. I also happen to know a thing or two about the position. I don't like overhyped players who's film doesn't matchup with what is said about the player. I trust my eyes more than I trust a writeup that scratches the surface for the average fan. I asked you to do an intelligent writeup that disproves what I have seen. You have said you are a USC fan, so you must have seen more games than myself. Just type what your eyes tell you and put it into the context of the player playing within the new england 2-gap 34 scheme.

OK, I'm not here to write a book report for you, obviously you'd rather have someone else. I'm saying if he falls to us, I'd be more than happy of we drafted him. ****, I'd be happy if we moved up some to get him. He's a big fast LB who makes big ****** plays, something we needed a year ago.

I've seen the same stuff the draft experts have and, just like me, they are grading Rey high in this year's draft and saying he'd be a fit on our team. Actually they have said that about all three USC LBs. So if you don't want Rey because you saw him get knocked down, that's fine, wait and hope you can get your man next year. I mean any defensive player who's ever been knocked down is obviously unworthy of playing football for us and he should be scratched from our big board forever.

 

[BadMoFo]

I'm really not trying to get into a pissing match here. However, I wrote what I see when I look at Maualuga. I also happen to know a thing or two about the position. I don't like overhyped players who's film doesn't matchup with what is said about the player. I trust my eyes more than I trust a writeup that scratches the surface for the average fan. I asked you to do an intelligent writeup that disproves what I have seen. You have said you are a USC fan, so you must have seen more games than myself. Just type what your eyes tell you and put it into the context of the player playing within the new england 2-gap 34 scheme.

Exactly what game tape are you referring to?

 

[VJCPatriot]

If I were getting the Maualuga of 07 I'd be happy to spend pick #23 on him, but Maualuga has looked much worse his senior year and a lot of his flaws have been exposed. His low Wonderlic is not the only factor but it certainly doesn't bode well for him either. Maualuga and Cushing are perhaps the two most overrated linebackers in this year's draft and I just don't think they are worth it at this point. Certainly I wouldn't trade UP for them.

 

[jsull87]

i really hope people believe the hype on maualuga and think he is a boom bust type just watch the film on him he would kill it at silb besides mayo. i really hope the nfl thinks he should drop out of the 1st round so we can get him 23 or miraculously 34

 

[TriplecHamp]

If I were getting the Maualuga of 07 I'd be happy to spend pick #23 on him, but Maualuga has looked much worse his senior year and a lot of his flaws have been exposed. His low Wonderlic is not the only factor but it certainly doesn't bode well for him either. Maualuga and Cushing are perhaps the two most overrated linebackers in this year's draft and I just don't think they are worth it at this point. Certainly I wouldn't trade UP for them.

How are they Overrated? What is the difference between this years Maualuga and last. Why dont you like Cushing? How about you give a SWOT (or what ever) on Maualuga and Cushing. Most feel they are mid teen late first pics. Nobody is saying top ten.

 

[CoachK]

Right, but with so many options I think the best play would be to see which of those players falls to #34. Trading #23 for a 1st in 2010 would be a great move IMO.

Depends on to whom we trade the pick. Wouldn't be such a great deal if we trade it to the Steelers or the Colts or the Giants.

 

[mayoclinic]

How can you criticize one players wonderlic and disregard another's? Anyway this is a quote from walterfootball: "Because of the progression he is shown throughout his career, I'm confident his instincts and leadership will improve even more in his senior season. Can play any scheme in the 4-3, but his ability to blitz and plug the run make him an elite fit for the 3-4." He is also better in zone coverage than given credit four.Long story short,You CANNOTbase a pick in one draft because you want another player in the future because. A: You don't know whats going to happen to that player in the future, Spikes could absolutely blow up and be a top 5 talent much like Curry is now. and B: and this would be unfortunate but injuries are apart of the game what if Spikes(God Forbid) tears an ACL?

I think Spikes is like Mayo, A good play-making, fluid hips LB. A good fit for WILB we need a run stuffing SILB and Mauluga IMO is the best fit in this Draft. A Great Blitzer with a nose for the ball and creates the big play. Maualuga may not be the best coverage LB but that is not what we are looking for in a SILB. Although it is a good quality it is not an absolute necessity. Maualuga also had 5 picks over his USC career so he can get his hands on the ball while its in the air.

First, I have never made a big deal of Maualuga's wonderlic. I challenge you to find a post by me in which I've more than casually mentioned it. I don't care much about a wonderlic of 15 per se. I've continued to like Louis Delmas in spite of his wonderlic score of 12 because he has a reputation for being extremely football smart and savvy, and showed great leadership at the Senior Bowl. Sort of like the Spikes situation.

What scares me about Maualuga's intelligence is not his wonderlic, but the numerous reports that he has trouble grasping complex schemes and adapting. He's never had a reputation as a particularly savvy football player.

Second, I have never suggested specifically passing on Maualuga or any other player in the hopes that someone else would be available the following year. I don't think that makes any sense. Saying "my dream scenario would be" implies just that, a dream scenario, not something that I am necessarily advocating as a blueprint. IF we don't taken an SILB this year and IF we had an extra 2010 1st and IF Spikes continues to show what he did in 2008, then he would be one of my potential targets of interest. That's all. I don't think that's unreasonable.

In a thread posted earlier today, Yahoo.sports has a 3-round mock with Maualuga going #20 to Detroit, Barwin #23 to NE, and Laurinaitis #34 to NE. I said that I didn't see Maualuga being a good fit for Detroit as a 4-3 MLB or Laurinaitis for NE at 3-4 ILB, but that if you substituted Laurinaitis at 20 for Detroit and MLB and Maualuga at 34 for NE I would be quite happy with that. So again, I'm not anti-Maualuga or particularly advocating passing on him, certainly not in the hopes that Spikes (who I would have preferred over Maualuga if he had come out this year) will be an option for us next year.

I disagree with you about Spikes as more of a Mayo-like WILB than an SILB. Spikes showed excellent ability to take on and shed OTs, and even lined up some at DE for Florida. I think that is more valuable than delivering a crushing hit every once in a while to make the highlight films.

 

[jays52]

OK, I'm not here to write a book report for you, obviously you'd rather have someone else. I'm saying if he falls to us, I'd be more than happy of we drafted him. ****, I'd be happy if we moved up some to get him. He's a big fast LB who makes big ****** plays, something we needed a year ago.

I've seen the same stuff the draft experts have and, just like me, they are grading Rey high in this year's draft and saying he'd be a fit on our team. Actually they have said that about all three USC LBs. So if you don't want Rey because you saw him get knocked down, that's fine, wait and hope you can get your man next year. I mean any defensive player who's ever been knocked down is obviously unworthy of playing football for us and he should be scratched from our big board forever.

In the words of the loquacious DMX, here we go again.

Fair enough. A few quick notes though. I've learned that in this forum, it is best to speak about what you know from first hand recognition. I understand there are a lot of people out there that like Maualuga, and they are definately entitled to that opinion. However, when 99% of these people are asked a basic question about fit, I find that they are unable to answer it. When we talk about a "2-down thumper", we're looking for a guy that is dominant against college blocking schemes. Anyone can light up a tailback on backside persuit, a true guard beater is a guy who is blowing up guards on one step, not tailbacks on five. Everyone says he's a big hitter. You know who the biggest, most explosive hitter I've seen come out of college in five years is? Bernard Pollard. He's panned out great. It ain't about giant hits or destroying people when you're at top speed. It's about the ability to play with leverage and explode through the blockers en route to the back.

I think that Rey has the ability to become a highly productive player in the right scheme; namely a 46. However I don't think that the defense that the Patriots run is the best fit. Let me explain how the Pats defend the run from their brand of the 34. Contrary to their reputation for permutation, it is as vanilla as vanilla can be. The defense is predicated upon winning the line of schrimmage. It's not a penetration defense, it's not a persuit defense, it is simply a control and flow defense. If teams want to run against the 34, the Patriots say "Alright, here it is, come take it from us". Because of the nature of this defense, their players need to have the ability to square in one step, stone the momentum of the offensive player and flow to the football. I think a guy like Jason Phillips, Jasper Brinkley and to a lesser extent; Larry English all present better value playing inside in this defense than Maualuga.


Finally, to answer your question regarding games: Cal, UCLA, Oregon St and even ND Maualuga was consistently having his ass handed to him by any guard that could get his hands inside his shoulders.

 

[captain stone]

There is no doubt in my mind that Clay Matthews son will be an outstanding 43 Will. He can also likely play Mike in a scheme where he would be protected such as the one Ray Lewis has mandated in Baltimore. Defending the A and B gaps while driving through guards? Not so much.

I agree. Matthews is a very, very poor fit here. If we didn't already have Mayo at WILB, then I would consider him at 34, but prob. not at 23. He can't play either SILB or OLB for us. The only way he could help us is if another team is desperate enough to trade up for him, through us.

 

[TriplecHamp]

First, I have never made a big deal of Maualuga's wonderlic. I challenge you to find a post by me in which I've more than casually mentioned it. I don't care much about a wonderlic of 15 per se. I've continued to like Louis Delmas in spite of his wonderlic score of 12 because he has a reputation for being extremely football smart and savvy, and showed great leadership at the Senior Bowl. Sort of like the Spikes situation.

What scares me about Maualuga's intelligence is not his wonderlic, but the numerous reports that he has trouble grasping complex schemes and adapting. He's never had a reputation as a particularly savvy football player.

Second, I have never suggested specifically passing on Maualuga or any other player in the hopes that someone else would be available the following year. I don't think that makes any sense. Saying "my dream scenario would be" implies just that, a dream scenario, not something that I am necessarily advocating as a blueprint. IF we don't taken an SILB this year and IF we had an extra 2010 1st and IF Spikes continues to show what he did in 2008, then he would be one of my potential targets of interest. That's all. I don't think that's unreasonable.

In a thread posted earlier today, Yahoo.sports has a 3-round mock with Maualuga going #20 to Detroit, Barwin #23 to NE, and Laurinaitis #34 to NE. I said that I didn't see Maualuga being a good fit for Detroit as a 4-3 MLB or Laurinaitis for NE at 3-4 ILB, but that if you substituted Laurinaitis at 20 for Detroit and MLB and Maualuga at 34 for NE I would be quite happy with that. So again, I'm not anti-Maualuga or particularly advocating passing on him, certainly not in the hopes that Spikes (who I would have preferred over Maualuga if he had come out this year) will be an option for us next year.

I disagree with you about Spikes as more of a Mayo-like WILB than an SILB. Spikes showed excellent ability to take on and shed OTs, and even lined up some at DE for Florida. I think that is more valuable than delivering a crushing hit every once in a while to make the highlight films.

I wasnt trying to single you out but some have gone so far as to call him dumb. I was just trying to compare Spikes and Maualuga and I think by far at 6-3 255 vs. 6'3 244 and almost every scouting report I have read on Rey have said that he has all of the makings as a 3-4 WILB. Spikes is a pure Athlete with loose hips and good coverage skills for a WILB he may be able to play SILB but at the same time so can mayo because of his athleticism. I think he would be better freed up. As far as the Dream Scenario, My mistake. I thought you wanted us to not go ILB in this draft and get a pick next year to possibly be in reach for Spikes. I actually Like Spikes because he reminds me of Mayo because of his speed and athleticism. I think both of us would be happy with him but I think if Rey Rey is on the board at #23 depending on who else was still up I would give the edge to Maualuga I think he would give us one of the best young, bright LB corps(depending on what happens at OLB) in the NFL.

 

[captain stone]

Depends on to whom we trade the pick. Wouldn't be such a great deal if we trade it to the Steelers or the Colts or the Giants.

Eggs-actly, Batman. Trading 23, or even 34, to any team not named the Loins or Faiders or Bungles is taking a chance that I am not willing to make.

 

[mayoclinic]

Eggs-actly, Batman. Trading 23, or even 34, to any team not named the Loins or Faiders or Bungles is taking a chance that I am not willing to make.

I kind of agree with that. It's one thing to trade #28 to SF in 2007. First, while some had SF as an up-and-comer they were picking #11 in 2007, and had plenty of issues. 2nd, BB obviously hated the value in the 2007 draft, and traded out as much as he could. In contrast, this draft is deep and loaded thru the first 2 rounds. I can see trading for a 2010 pick, but not at 23 or 34 unless we miss out on multiple players. I think a trade of the #47 or 58 pick (or something in that range if we trade around within the first 2 rounds) is more likely.

Trading #23 this year and ending up with something like #20 next year will not be a particularly good deal for us. Particularly this year, where I feel that the players available from 20-34 will likely be nearly as strong as the players available from 10-20.

 

[patchick]

Right, but with so many options I think the best play would be to see which of those players falls to #34. Trading #23 for a 1st in 2010 would be a great move IMO.

I know a lot of folks see it this way, but I really don't. Just because it's hard to decide doesn't mean there's poor value, or that we should let other teams make the choice for us or hope that the choice will be clearer next year. It's like being on Let's Make a Deal, where door #1 is opened to reveal a Porsche, and door #2 is a Mercedes, and you're so torn you say "I'll take whatever's behind door #3."

That doesn't mean #23 has to be an OLB by any means. If there's greater value at another position, terrific. I just don't think you pass on taking your pick of a strong OLBs class just because there are a lot of choices. (Plus I strongly suspect that the Pats have a shorter list of options than a fan might!)

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I think Maualuga is the only ILB that fits what the Pats need next to Mayo. People are worried about him only being a 2down lb but is that so bad? We need somebody to replace Tedy in that position, even if Mau only becomes a 2down lb we have Guyton that could play on passing downs while Mau helps being that thumper lb we havent had since Ted Johnson. Mayo Muauluga and Guyton could be a nice trio for a long time to come. Mayo the 3down lb who can do it all, Mau the thumper who can play the run and hit like a ton of bricks and is a faster version of Ted J, and Guyton who has great speed and can play on passing downs.

If Mau is there at 23 and if the Pats like him I hope they get him even if Barwin is there, Barwin could last until 34 but even if he dont im sure a Clay Matthews or English, Brown, or Maybin will still be available.

uhhhh........a 2 down LB in the first round????? I don't think so....the pats can get that with jasper brinkley

 

[captain stone]

"I kind of agree with that. It's one thing to trade #28 to SF in 2007. First, while some had SF as an up-and-comer they were picking #11 in 2007, and had plenty of issues. 2nd, BB obviously hated the value in the 2007 draft, and traded out as much as he could. In contrast, this draft is deep and loaded thru the first 2 rounds. I can see trading for a 2010 pick, but not at 23 or 34 unless we miss out on multiple players. I think a trade of the #47 or 58 pick (or something in that range if we trade around within the first 2 rounds) is more likely.

Trading #23 this year and ending up with something like #20 next year will not be a particularly good deal for us. Particularly this year, where I feel that the players available from 20-34 will likely be nearly as strong as the players available from 10-20."
__________________

Also, the Pats had already used a 1st-round pick on Meriweather, and received SF's 4th-rounder, in addition to their '08 1st, which they used to trade for Randy Moss.

I agree that trading 47, and prob. a 6th, for a '10 1st is much more likely.

 

[mayoclinic]

I know a lot of folks see it this way, but I really don't. Just because it's hard to decide doesn't mean there's poor value, or that we should let other teams make the choice for us or hope that the choice will be clearer next year. It's like being on Let's Make a Deal, where door #1 is opened to reveal a Porsche, and door #2 is a Mercedes, and you're so torn you say "I'll take whatever's behind door #3."

That doesn't mean #23 has to be an OLB by any means. If there's greater value at another position, terrific. I just don't think you pass on taking your pick of a strong OLBs class just because there are a lot of choices. (Plus I strongly suspect that the Pats have a shorter list of options than a fan might!)

Again, this year I think that the value from 21-34 is going to be nearly the same as from 11-20.

Assume that Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe, Michael Crabtree, Aaron Curry, BJ Raji and Brian Orapko are all top 10 locks. That's 8 players.

Then consider the following players:

1. Michael Oher, OT - could go anywhere from Jacksonville at #8 to the 20's.
2. Andre Smith, OT - could go anywhere from Cincinnati at #6 to the end of the 1st round.
3. Chris Wells, RB - could go anywhere from Cincinnati at #6 to the early 2nd round.
4. Knowshon Moreno, RB - could go anywhere from around 14 to the early 2nd round.
5. Jeremy Maclin, WR - could go anywhere from Oakland at #7 to the 20's.
6. Darius Heyward-Bey, WR - could go from the teens to the early 2nd round.
7. Malcolm Jenkins, CB - could go top 10 but could go in the 20's; Pats are evaluating him
8. Everette Brown, DE/OLB - could go top 10 but could realistically fall as low as the early 20's
9. Aaron Maybin, DE/OLB - could go top 10 but could easily fall in the 20's
10. Robert Ayers, DE - some have him going top 10, but could fall to the late 1st/early 2nd round
11. Tyson Jackson, DE - could go as high as Denver at #12, or could fall to the late 1st/early 2nd round
12. Rey Maualuga, ILB - could go as high as Denver at #12, or could fall to the late 1st/early 2nd round
13. Brian Cushing, LB - could go anywhere from #13 to #40
14. Clay Matthews, LB - could go anywhere from #13 to #40

With the 8 players listed above, that brings thru pick 22, up to the Pats at #23. At least some of this players are likely to be available at #23. And, are these 14 players clearly better than the following 14 players, at least some of whom should be available at #34:

1. Josh Freeman, QB - could go from about #10 to #33.
2. Donald Brown, RB - could go from about #20 to #50.
3. Hakeem Nicks, WR - could go from about #18 to #40.
4. Percy Harvin, WR - could go from about #18 to #40.
5. Kenny Britt, WR - could go from about #25 to #50.
6. William Beatty, OT - could go from about #20 to #40.
7. Eben Britton, OT - could go from about #18 to #40.
8. Jarron Gilbert, DE - could go from about #23 to #50.
9. Michael Johnson, DE/LB - could go from about #20 to #50.
10. Connor Barwin, DE/OLB - could go from about #20 to #40.
11. Larry English, DE/OLB - could go form about #18 to #40.
12. Vontae Davis, CB - could go from about #14 to #40.
13. Darius Butler, CB - could go from about #20 to #40.
14. Louis Delmas, S - could go from about #20 to #50.

I think there is terrific value in this draft from 20-50. There may be poor value from 10-20, because there is little separation between who you will get at #10 and who you might be able to get at 20, 30, or even in the 40's. Aaron Maybin and Everette Brown could go around 10-11 and turn out to not be as good as Michael Johnson and Larry English, for example.

That's why I don't really see trading up from #23, unless a really top player falls out of the top 10 (which I doubt) or the Pats identify someone they really like and want for their system. I see trading around within the 20-50 range, possibly trading up from 47 or 58, and possibly trading a mid-2nd round pick into 2010.