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Suspect drafting past few years


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You are one hell of a clown aren't you sonny boy

Sir- You make me look like Einstein, Copernicus and Bear Bryant all rolled into one.. And I am only about half as smart as any one of them.

The truth hurts. You and the others are using hind-sight to make your BS statements and forgetting to take into consideration the make-up of the teams at the times the players were drafted. You also fail to take into consideration that the Patriots Brass interviewed these guys at one point or another and those interviews are something that figure into their decision making. Yet, all you do is pull out that player XYZ has become this great player and all we got was "Mincey" or "Rogers" or "Brown". You offer up no perspective fail to support your case by even the simplest of terms.
 
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Sir- You make me look like Einstein, Copernicus and Bear Bryant all rolled into one.. And I am only about half as smart as any one of them.

The truth hurts. You and the others are using hind-sight to make your BS statements and forgetting to take into consideration the make-up of the teams at the times the players were drafted. You also fail to take into consideration that the Patriots Brass interviewed these guys at one point or another and those interviews are something that figure into their decision making. Yet, all you do is pull out that player XYZ has become this great player and all we got was "Mincey" or "Rogers" or "Brown". You offer up no perspective fail to support your case by even the simplest of terms.

Show me all these Pro Bowl players the Pats have. Show me one impact player on the defense. Keep walking around thinking the Patriots Brass are doing a great job.
 
Ok let me make it clear. BB does NOT care about pedigree ok?

He cares about what you do now, not where you came from yesterday.

In '98, Bruschi's number was not spectacular, yet he continues starting.

In '09, Mayo's number are not spectacular, yet he continues starting.

Are you getting it now?

Bruschi was not a starter in '98. He started by default in '99 because of Ted Johnson's injury. Do you get it now?
 
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Bruschi was not a starter in '98. He started by default in '99 because of Ted Johnson's injury. Do you get it now?

You're wrong. He played in every game and started the last 8 games and also the wildcard.
 
Hey Bro What's UP said:
Because they had a guy by the name of Ted Johnson who was one of the best MLB's in the game before his injury in '99

Nothing like changing your point in a poor attempt to make it stand up.

You claimed that Mayo wasn't worth the #10 over-all pick based on his play. Yet, when confronted by numbers that state otherwise, you stutter and spin.

Johnson was replaced by Andy Katzenmoyer in 1999 as the starting MLB. Bruschi didn't move inside until 2001. Bruschi was playing OLB prior to that.

There is a great website you might want to go look at. It's Official Website of the New England Patriots It has a lot of great knowledge about when players moved to what position and all.
 
I love how people bash on Chris Baker when he's being asked to block on an almost full time basis because of the O-line issues. As for Springs, he's done fine when he's played.

The drafting "woes" are in people's heads and exaggerated beyond belief. People just are too clueless on what drafting woes really are. Too many people act like we've become the Lions of the mid-2000s because we haven't picked their binkie and their binkie has gone on to an entirely DIFFERENT system and had some modicum of success...




Sorry to burst your bubble, but you full of sh!t. They aren't the reason why the Pats aren't playing well right now. No matter how much you want people to think you are correct.

The Pats aren't playing wel because they aren't playing well. For whatever reason, they aren't the normally FOCUSED team we expect. Being unintelligent and making asinine claims about players doesn't make you look smart. On the contrary. It makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about.


- Why has Brace been inactive for many of these games? According to Andy Gresh, he has sat out games because of his work ethnic and his conditioning. Boom!!!

- Marquis Hill wasn't a bust? Excuse me, someone who was drafted in the 2nd round and had career totals of 2 tackles isn't a bust?

- Kevin O'Connel was not a 7th round pick. He was a 3RD ROUND PICK. a 3rd Round pick is viewed as someone who can help you. This pick made no sense with Brady and Cassel in front in him. Makes absolutely no sense. He sucked when he was in there as a backup and was let go out of training camp. Blown pick plain and simple.

- Shawn Crable was a healthy scratch several weeks pal. Even when he was healthy, he wasn't consistently in there.

- Brown was not cut do to the lack of depth of the secondary in 2007. Get you're facts straight bub. He was cut because he wasn't good. Plain and simple.

Have you watched Wealthy? He has been a train wreck. Have you watched the games these past two seasons? He has been awful.... Wow you're really on a role here.

Drafting is a MAJOR part of the game and we have been hampered by the poor drafting these past few seasons.

I think you are the one that doesn't know too much right now.

For those interested. Gives you a good look of how each draft has turned out years later.

2008
1 - LB Jerod Mayo - Active, New England Patriots
2 - CB Terrence Wheatley - Active, New England Patriots
3 - LB Shawn Crable - Injured Reserve, New England Patriots
3 - QB Kevin O'Connell - Active, New York Jets
4 - CB Jonathan Wilhite - Active, New England Patriots
5 - WR Matthew Slater - Active, New England Patriots
6 - LB Bo Ruud - Out of NFL

2007
1 - DB Brandon Meriweather - Active, New England Patriots
4 - DL Kareem Brown - Out of NFL
5 - OL Clint Oldenburg - Out of NFL
6 - LB Justin Rogers - Out of NFL
6 - DB Mike Richardson - Out of NFL
6 - RB Justise Hairston - Injured Reserve, Buffalo Bills
6 - OL Corey Hilliard - Practice Squad, Cleveland Browns
7 - LB Oscar Lua - Out of NFL
7 - OL Mike Elgin - Out of NFL

2006
1 - RB Laurence Maroney - Active, New England Patriots
2 - WR Chad Jackson - Out of NFL
3 - TE David Thomas - Active, New Orleans Saints
4 - TE Garrett Mills - Practice Squad, Minnesota Vikings
4 - K Stephen Gostkowski - Active, New England Patriots
5 - OL Ryan O'Callaghan - Active, Kansas City Chiefs
6 - LB Jeremy Mincey - Injured Reserve, Jacksonville Jaguars
6 - OL Dan Stevenson - Out of NFL
6 - DL Le Kevin Smith - Active, Denver Broncos
7 - DB Willie Andrews - Out of NFL

2005
1 - OL Logan Mankins - Active, New England Patriots
3 - DB Ellis Hobbs - Active, Philadelphia Eagles
3 - OL Nick Kaczur - Active, New England Patriots
4 - DB James Sanders - Active, New England Patriots
5 - LB Ryan Claridge - Out of NFL
7 - QB Matt Cassel - Active, Kansas City Chiefs
7 - TE Andy Stokes - Out of NFL

2004
1 - DL Vince Wilfork - Active, New England Patriots
1 - TE Benjamin Watson - Active, New England Patriots
2 - DL Marquise Hill - Deceased
3 - DB Guss Scott - Out of NFL
4 - DB Dexter Reid - Out of NFL
4 - RB Cedric Cobbs - Out of NFL
5 - WR P.K. Sam - Out of NFL
7 - DB Christian Morton - Out of NFL

2003
1 - DL Ty Warren - Active, New England Patriots
2 - DB Eugene Wilson - Active, Houston Texans
2 - WR Bethel Johnson - Out of NFL
4 - DL Dan Klecko - Out of NFL
4 - DB Asante Samuel - Active, Philadelphia Eagles
5 - OL Dan Koppen - Active, New England Patriots
6 - QB Kliff Kingsbury - Out of NFL
7 - TE Spencer Nead - Out of NFL
7 - LB Tully Banta-Cain - Active, New England Patriots
7 - DL Ethan Kelley - Out of NFL

2002
1 - TE Daniel Graham - Active, Denver Broncos
2 - WR Deion Branch - Active, Seattle Seahawks
4 - QB Rohan Davey - Out of NFL
4 - DL Jarvis Green - Active, New England Patriots
7 - RB Antwoine Womack - Out of NFL
7 - WR David Givens - Out of NFL

2001
1 - DL Richard Seymour - Active, Oakland Raiders
2 - OL Matt Light - Active, New England Patriots
3 - DB Brock Williams - Out of NFL
4 - OL Kenyatta Jones - Out of NFL
4 - TE Jabari Holloway - Out of NFL
5 - DB Hakim Akbar - Out of NFL
6 - TE Arther Love - Out of NFL
6 - DB Leonard Myers - Out of NFL
7 - K Owen Pochman - Out of NFL
7 - LB T.J. Turner - Out of NFL

2000
2 - OL Adrian Klemm - Out of NFL
3 - RB J.R. Redmond - Out of NFL
4 - OL Greg Robinson-Randall - Out of NFL
5 - TE Dave Stachelski - Out of NFL
5 - DL Jeff Marriott - Out of NFL
6 - DB Antwan Harris - Out of NFL
6 - QB Tom Brady - Active, New England Patriots
6 - DL David Nugent - Out of NFL
7 - LB Casey Tisdale - Out of NFL
7 - RB Patrick Pass - Out of NFL

Take a look at that buddy. You will know why we don't have the horses right now. There are blown drafts in there.
 
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Bruschi was not a starter in '98. He started by default in '99 because of Ted Johnson's injury. Do you get it now?

So the Patriots played 19 games in the 1999 regular season then? I ask because Bruschi had 14 starts and Johnson had 5.

P.S. Bruschi had 7 starts in 1998, as well.
 
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ARRGGGGGHHHHHHH do NOT even whisper that name around here ever again!!
Him and Wallace stunted the growth of the Pats and Celts for years!!
They botrh threw away alot of high picks, and discussing them is no longer tolerated!

Thank You for your Cooperation in this matter.




:D

Ha, he actually has a job. With the Texans.
 
- Why has Brace been inactive for many of these games? According to Andy Gresh, he has sat out games because of his work ethnic and his conditioning. Boom!!!

- Marquis Hill wasn't a bust? Excuse me, someone who was drafted in the 2nd round and had career totals of 2 tackles isn't a bust?

- Kevin O'Connel was not a 7th round pick. He was a 3RD ROUND PICK. a 3rd Round pick is viewed as someone who can help you. This pick made no sense with Brady and Cassel in front in him. Makes absolutely no sense. He sucked when he was in there as a backup and was let go out of training camp. Blown pick plain and simple.

- Shawn Crable was a healthy scratch several weeks pal. Even when he was healthy, he wasn't consistently in there.

- Brown was not cut do to the lack of depth of the secondary in 2007. Get you're facts straight bub. He was cut because he wasn't good. Plain and simple.

Have you watched Wealthy? He has been a train wreck. Have you watched the games these past two seasons? He has been awful.... Wow you're really on a role here.

Drafting is a MAJOR part of the game and we have been hampered by the poor drafting these past few seasons.

I think you are the one that doesn't know too much right now.

For those interested. Gives you a good look of how each draft has turned out years later.

2008
1 - LB Jerod Mayo - Active, New England Patriots
2 - CB Terrence Wheatley - Active, New England Patriots
3 - LB Shawn Crable - Injured Reserve, New England Patriots
3 - QB Kevin O'Connell - Active, New York Jets
4 - CB Jonathan Wilhite - Active, New England Patriots
5 - WR Matthew Slater - Active, New England Patriots
6 - LB Bo Ruud - Out of NFL

Do me a favor and explain to me what the original argument was in regard to drafting. I bet you cannot even get that one right.
 
Ha, he actually has a job. With the Texans.

That's THEIR problem!!

They are destined to wallow in sht or mediocrity for the entire time!! :D
 
You're wrong. He played in every game and started the last 8 games and also the wildcard.

You're right about him starting the last eight games because I'm guessing either Todd Collins or Johnson was injured. This was my point. He didn't start because he was better, he started because of injury.
 
The 2006 through 2008 drafting didn't suck..

2006: Maroney, Jackson, Thomas, Mills, Gostkowksi, O'Callaghan, Mincey, Stevenson, LeKevin Smith, Willie Andrews : 2 Starters, one of who is one of the best all around kickers in the league. They had Thomas who was a good reserve for three years. LeKevin Smith was also a good reserve. Willie Andrews was a special teams ACE until his law issues. Jackson and Mills were the only busts.. Mincey and Stevenson shouldn't be considered busts since anything outside the 4th round is really a crap shoot.

2007: This one produced Meriweather, Kareem Brown and Mike Richardson. There were 6 other picks, 4 of which couldn't be traded. One of which was Justin Rogers, who was immediately picked up off waivers by the Cowboys. Meriweather and Brown made the team out of camp and Richardson was on his way to making the team prior to his injury. Brown was cut because of the need for bodies in the secondary. Richardson was cut in 2009.

2008 : Mayo, Wheatley, Crable, Wilhite, O'Connell, Slater, Ruud. Mayo has been starting since he got to the Pats. Wilhite worked his way into the starting rotation by the end of his 1st season. He's regressed some this year, but he started off as a solid starter. Slater has been an ACE special teamer. Wheatley has regressed some, part of which is due to the addition of Bodden in the off-season. O'Connell is a bust. Crable is undecided since he can't get onto the field and stay healthy.

The Pats got a lot of good talent there. 2007 could be considered to have sucked, but people forget that the Pats hated the talent level of the draft which led to them trading 3 picks to acquire Moss and Welker and that the Pats had a FULL 61 man roster prior to the draft ever happening. So it was going to be near impossible for guys from that draft class to make the team.

I know we've got some Einstein's who think that they could have done better than BB, but they seem to falter after their first choice since that would change the entire way the draft would have turned out and no one can tell how it would have gone..

Your point would be valid if those guys had success elsewhere.

Kareem Brown went to the Jets, converted to TE, and is now out of football.

Justin Rogers did nothing with the Cowboys and has been on and off the Chiefs roster this season. Richardson and O'Callaghan are Chiefs reserves.

Jackson is out of football. Andrews played in the UFL. Stevenson and Elgin are OOF; Hilliard and Oldenburg are on PS's for the Browns and Redskins.

Mills is on the Vikings' PS after being claimed to their 53 a full two years ago. Thomas has only benefited from Brees.

I would disagree with Slater being an "ace" special teamer. Izzo was an ace, Aiken is an ace. Slater is nothing but a gunner who has thus far sucked on KRs. I am with you on Wilhite; I think the last few games have been an anomaly, but I'd still like him to settle into a #3-#4 corner role.
 
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That's THEIR problem!!

They are destined to wallow in sht or mediocrity for the entire time!! :D

He's been with them since 2000, two years before they even existed!
 
So the Patriots played 19 games in the 1999 regular season then? I ask because Bruschi had 14 starts and Johnson had 5.

P.S. Bruschi had 7 starts in 1998, as well.

Katzenmoyer took Johnson's spot at MLB and Bruschi replaced OLB Todd Collins who departed after the '98 season. I got mixed up on who replaced who.

In 1998, the starters at LB were Slade, Johnson and Collins. I can't remember who got injured but that is why Bruschi started those eight games.

In 1999, the original starters were Slade, Johnson and Bruschi.
 
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Your point would be valid if those guys had success elsewhere.

Kareem Brown went to the Jets, converted to TE, and is now out of football.

Justin Rogers did nothing with the Cowboys and has been on and off the Chiefs roster this season. Richardson and O'Callaghan are Chiefs reserves.

Jackson is out of football. Andrews played in the UFL. Stevenson and Elgin are OOF; Hilliard and Oldenburg are on PS's for the Browns and Redskins.

Mills is on the Vikings' PS after being claimed to their 53 a full two years ago. Thomas has only benefited from Brees.

I would disagree with Slater being an "ace" special teamer. Izzo was an ace, Aiken is an ace. Slater is nothing but a gunner who has thus far sucked on KRs. I am with you on Wilhite; I think the last few games have been an anomoly, but I'd still like him to settle into a #3-#4 corner role.

O'Callaghan's been starting at right tackle for the Chiefs.
 
Your point would be valid if those guys had success elsewhere.

Kareem Brown went to the Jets, converted to TE, and is now out of football.

Justin Rogers did nothing with the Cowboys and has been on and off the Chiefs roster this season. Richardson and O'Callaghan are Chiefs reserves.

Jackson is out of football. Andrews played in the UFL. Stevenson and Elgin are OOF; Hilliard and Oldenburg are on PS's for the Browns and Redskins.

Mills is on the Vikings' PS after being claimed to their 53 a full two years ago. Thomas has only benefited from Brees.

I would disagree with Slater being an "ace" special teamer. Izzo was an ace, Aiken is an ace. Slater is nothing but a gunner who has thus far sucked on KRs. I am with you on Wilhite; I think the last few games have been an anomaly, but I'd still like him to settle into a #3-#4 corner role.

Don't let accuracy get in the way!! ;)
 
O'Callaghan's been starting at right tackle for the Chiefs.

I stand corrected. I knew Wade Smith was starting, but I now remember it's because Albert was hurt at LT.
 
Show me all these Pro Bowl players the Pats have. Show me one impact player on the defense. Keep walking around thinking the Patriots Brass are doing a great job.

It always boils down to the ignorant putting words in my mouth in some poor attempt to salvage their dignity.

First off, the number of Pro-Bowlers does not determine whether or not the draft was a success. That is your own ignorance talking. You clearly have trouble understanding that.

Secondly, Brandon Meriweather and Jerod Mayo both say HI. So do Vince Wilfork and Ty Warren. But they would also like to remind you that the defense is comprised of 11 players. And when you have the amount of inexperience and new faces on defense that the Patriots do, it takes time for them to Gel. And sometimes it takes more than one season.

Third, You can't evaluate drafts that are less than 3 years old. You can say that things are looking positive or that things are looking bright or things suck, but anything more is you talking out your arse. Every GM, both current and past, has said basically the same thing.

Fourth, I'm still waiting for you to provide to everyone the percentage of success for the Patriots and for the other 31 teams in the league so we can see just how good/bad the Patriots are. I'll even make it easy for you. You only have to do it for 2003-2007 (5 years) http:\\DraftHistory.com - NFL Pro Football College Draft

Lastly, please show me where I said, in this thread, that the Patriots Brass is "Doing a great job." I'd really like to see it.
 
You're right about him starting the last eight games because I'm guessing either Todd Collins or Johnson was injured. This was my point. He didn't start because he was better, he started because of injury.

Johnson and Tedy didn't even play the same position in '98.

God bless Collins. The comp pick we got from giving up Collins to FA in '99 was the one we used to pick Brady.
 
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