Seattle OC on The Play

[Sicilian]

I have a different (slightly more homer-tastic) perspective. It was a bad play call, but BB kind of baited them into a bad call by not taking a timeout (when everyone including the Seahawks probably expected one), and by sending out the three corners goal line package which kind of disguised how well a pass could actually be defended in that situation. Not to mention the credit BB gets for preparing in practice for that exact playcall.

 

[The Brandon Five]

I have a different (slightly more homer-tastic) perspective. It was a bad play call, but BB kind of baited them into a bad call by not taking a timeout (when everyone including the Seahawks probably expected one), and by sending out the three corners goal line package which kind of disguised how well a pass could actually be defended in that situation. Not to mention the credit BB gets for preparing in practice for that exact playcall.

This. Another Ernie Adams sighting on the "3 Games to Glory" DVD was outlining that they prepare for every situation (including this one). The interesting thing is that the play in the SB was the first time that the defense had stopped it (IIRC).

 

[IcyPatriot]

Their logic seems to reflect the thinking relative to a normal NFL lead RB ...

Lynch is no normal NFL lead RB he is 'The Beast' .... so IMO their logic is a bit flawed relative to their player.

Great players are given latitude by great coaches ... part of the reason Brady has won 4 Super Bowls.

Some pic porn:

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not being condescending at all. Or at least I'm not trying to be. So my apologies if that's how it came off. That people don't see how this was one of the worst playcalls of all time is mind boggling. And I'm aware that the Patriots were in goal line. Seattle knew that too. Seattle ran with success on goal line defenses all year long and has been doing that since Lynch came to them. Further, people overestimate that package. Vince was very good last year but he clearly wasn't the Vince of old.

LOL at the irony

 

[Ring 6]

Patriots were the #2 run D over the last 3/4s of the season, with DOMINATING run D stats.
They had their big package in.
They had been effective in short yardage that day.
People will see what they want to see, including a 6 yard run vs a pass heavy D being the reason they should run into the teeth of a run heavy D.

 

[Kontradiction]

I have a different (slightly more homer-tastic) perspective. It was a bad play call, but BB kind of baited them into a bad call by not taking a timeout (when everyone including the Seahawks probably expected one), and by sending out the three corners goal line package which kind of disguised how well a pass could actually be defended in that situation. Not to mention the credit BB gets for preparing in practice for that exact playcall.

No doubt. The personnel package was genius and well executed.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Patriots were the #2 run D over the last 3/4s of the season, with DOMINATING run D stats.
They had their big package in.
They had been effective in short yardage that day.
People will see what they want to see, including a 6 yard run vs a pass heavy D being the reason they should run into the teeth of a run heavy D.

Lynch was 24 carries for 102 yards ... 4.3 yard average.
Which is 0.4 lower average than he season stats ... which reflects the Patriots strong run defense.
Lynch had 13 rushing touchdowns in 2014 ... 1st in the NFL - 7 of those from inside the 5.
Lynch has 15 career 1 yard touchdown runs and 42 TD runs from 5 yards or less.

As my above post stated ... Lynch is no average #1 NFL RB.

 

[Ring 6]

Lynch was 24 carries for 102 yards ... 4.3 yard average.
Which is 0.4 lower average than he season stats ... which reflects the Patriots strong run defense.
A minor tick down from his usual stats .... not major enough to go away from him.

As my above post stated ... Lynch is no average #1 NFL RB.

You can't just look at stats. What situations were those stats in?
What happened in short yardage. The fact is they struggled all day in those situations.
Every play call can be second guessed. If they ran and lost a yard then everyone would be questioning why they would run into the teeth of the D when they had failed at it all day.

You can defend either side, and neither is right or wrong, because its a play call, and there are myriad reasons to call one play or another. People trying to make it black or white are simply using the result as the argument.
Had they executed the play that was called properly it would have been a TD.

 

[IcyPatriot]

You can't just look at stats. What situations were those stats in?
What happened in short yardage. The fact is they struggled all day in those situations.
Every play call can be second guessed. If they ran and lost a yard then everyone would be questioning why they would run into the teeth of the D when they had failed at it all day.

You can defend either side, and neither is right or wrong, because its a play call, and there are myriad reasons to call one play or another. People trying to make it black or white are simply using the result as the argument.
Had they executed the play that was called properly it would have been a TD.

Your backtracking Andy now that stats have entered the discussion ... whatever.

 

[Ring 6]

Your backtracking Andy now that stats have entered the discussion ... whatever.

Not backtracking at all.
I'm just not going to take the time to look up the stats in THOSE SITUATIONS which are the ones that matter. Are you really saying that Lynch running on 2nd an 10 vs nickel is indicative of how he will do against goalline from the 2?

You used stats that are not applicable to the situation to defend your argument, which is not correct.
By your argument, you should give Lynch the ball every play because he averages over 4 yards, so he will get a first down every 3 carries.

 

[Kontradiction]

Lynch was 24 carries for 102 yards ... 4.3 yard average.
Which is 0.4 lower average than he season stats ... which reflects the Patriots strong run defense.
Lynch had 13 rushing touchdowns in 2014 ... 1st in the NFL - 7 of those from inside the 5.
Lynch has 15 career 1 yard touchdown runs and 42 TD runs from 5 yards or less.

As my above post stated ... Lynch is no average #1 NFL RB.

And Seattle's OL is no average OL either when it comes to run blocking. Or at least it wasn't before the Graham trade this past offseason. They've ran with success on stout run defenses before. Take a look at their own division from 2011-2013. They ran with success on our run defense in that game. I have the poster you're responding to on ignore but, in general, I think fans here have a hard time admitting that the Patriots very well may have ended up losing the game if Lynch's number is called there. Bevell really bailed the team out and the call is widely considered one of the worst calls in the history of the NFL except, apparently, on this forum. It was a terrible, TERRIBLE call that ignored the best assets and personnel of their offense and played directly into what New England's defense wanted them to do.

 

[raduray]

Butler made the play of the game but if it wasn't for Browner completely jamming Kearse not sure if the INT happens.

It was a team play. Classic BB prep.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Butler made a great play, but if Lockette goes strong to the ball, then there's no pick. Lockette wimped out.

We can't expect him to have fought for the ball, because he didn't see Malcolm coming, and the speed of Malcolm beating him to the ball knocked him on his ass

 

[raduray]

It's amazing how one play will become part of a Players/Coach Legacy and shade the rest of their accomplishments. Some are lucky some are not.

Bill Buckner - (although that thankfully has faded over the last few years)

I blame Calvin Schiraldi. One batter (was it one strike?) away from winning it all and he couldn't get it done. I knew the series was lost as soon as the Mets tied it. I still feel the pain. Bill Buckner was the goat, but it was the bullpen that lost it.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

Good. You're learning now. The majority of Seattle's yardage through the air came on jump balls down the field and one fluke play that was well covered by the guy they were targetting on this play. Outside of that, they weren't having an orgy of success through the air. Meanwhile, they are on the goal line, they have one of the best run blocking OL's in the league, and one of the best RB's in the NFL and they decide to pass it on a quick slant? Awful call. To take your example, that would have been like the Patriots taking the ball out of Brady's hands in the red zone.



You know this is nonsense but admitting it defeats the purpose of debating. Lynch had just gotten done gashing the Pats defense for 6 yards the play before that. It was an awful play call that worked out extremely well for us because, in the end, it lost Seattle the game.

The Patriots take the ball out of Brady's hands in the red zone in almost every game at some point. Is that also the worst play call in NFL history?

 

[bradydaman29]

I'm not being condescending at all. Or at least I'm not trying to be. So my apologies if that's how it came off. That people don't see how this was one of the worst playcalls of all time is mind boggling. And I'm aware that the Patriots were in goal line. Seattle knew that too. Seattle ran with success on goal line defenses all year long and has been doing that since Lynch came to them. Further, people overestimate that package. Vince was very good last year but he clearly wasn't the Vince of old.

And Butler got beat two plays before? You're talking about the fluke catch, correct? Because, unless I've totally lost my mind, the coverage was outstanding on that throw. He contested that all the way and Seattle got a lucky bounce. Most of their production through the air came on that play and jump balls (remember how Wilson started the game until they began to pick on Arrington and Ryan?). In the end, Seattle has made their living since Wilson came into the league on being a run first team because they had the personnel to do that with raging success. They then went away from that in the critical moments and the most anyone can say in the defense of the play was that it should have been a fade instead of a quick slant into traffic. That's some defense. And yes, throwing at the rookie was a bad idea. Why? Because it lost them the Super Bowl as their prized work horse running back and their stud run blocking OL walked off the field with their heads down.

A minor point, but Lynch did not walk off with his head down. His head was up and he had a big smile (can you imagine brady doing that). Secondly, amazing how, after this play, there was very little talk about Wilson making a mistake, it was all about how the play call was so terrible - interesting.

 

[Kontradiction]

The Patriots take the ball out of Brady's hands in the red zone in almost every game at some point. Is that also the worst play call in NFL history?

I'll respond with a question in kind: Do you think they take the ball out of Brady's hands in that spot, that situation, with that amount of time left? Why or why not?

 

[Kontradiction]

A minor point, but Lynch did not walk off with his head down. His head was up and he had a big smile (can you imagine brady doing that). Secondly, amazing how, after this play, there was very little talk about Wilson making a mistake, it was all about how the play call was so terrible - interesting.

Wilson's primary read was Lockette on that play and he went with it and away from Revis. That's another reason why the play call was so terrible. A quick slant into traffic with the guy that's supposed to set the pick on the strongest corner in the league? Like I keep saying, this defense in the OP is faint at best. The best defense they can give it is that the call should have been a fade and not a slant. That's how bad that call was.

 

[Zeus]

Both teams scored four times. NE had 4 TDs, Seattle had 3 TDs, one FG.

On Seattle's first possession in Q3, they were 3rd and 1 from the NE 8. The unstoppable Marshawn Lynch was stopped for no gain leading to the Seattle FG. Stopping Lynch on 3rd and 1 was a four point play and was ultimately the margin of victory. (Thank you, Rob Ninkovich).

Two big short yardage plays were game changers. Lynch got the ball on one and was stopped cold. A huge and vastly underrated play.

Lynch was no sure thing against that defensive alignment. King's article has coaches and QBs saying they wouldn't have run it either. And any play that is executed poorly will look like a bad call.

Seattle's mistake was trying to manage the clock and score. You can't assume a score (unless a FG will win for you) and you don't try to run out the clock while down 4 points.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

Teams pass it all the time in goal line. I don't get the shock. I'll bet if you looked at the stats for 4 downs to the goal they would favor run, but there's still plenty of passes. Teams don't typically run 4 straight run plays on every goal line.

Lynch had been stuffed for short yardage several times that game, so he's no sure thing. In the third quarter after getting stuffed they had Wilson pass it for a TD. Why isn't that call also terrible? Because it worked?

These Plays are just from the 2nd half:

On the goal line- gets stuffed, needed one yard and he couldn't get it.

3rd and 1 at NE 8 (11:51) (Shotgun) M.Lynch left tackle to NE 8 for no gain (R.Ninkovich).

Mid field, not even facing a goal line defense, stuffed for 1 and 2 yards. Wilson bails them out of 3rd and long.

1st and 10 at SEA 36 (14:17) (Shotgun) M.Lynch left end to SEA 38 for 2 yards (A.Branch). 14 24
2nd and 8 at SEA 38 (13:42) (Shotgun) M.Lynch up the middle to SEA 39 for 1 yard (V.Wilfork).

Again, on the goal line, he only gets one yard. Seattle "stupidly" gives the ball to Wilson on the goal line here. TD.

1st and 4 at NE 4 (5:39) M.Lynch left tackle to NE 3 for 1 yard (J.Collins; S.Siliga).

Seattle is probably thinking they have 4 chances, they can run it three times and make a quick slant targeting a rookie once. Their QB had been more effective than Lynch anyway. Seems pretty typical to me.