Did the Patriots Organization Become too Arrogant?

[Boomer B]

Something I’ve been thinking about today after reading some of the articles that have come out about Josh McDaniels. This was from an ex- Broncos player:

“After trading Cutler, Josh addressed the entire team and said, “Fellas, don’t worry about the quarterback situation. I can turn a high school quarterback into an All-Pro.”

Wow. The arrogance and ego, not just to actually think that, but to say it. But then it got me thinking back to the article that came out a while ago, when an unnamed Patriots coach said that give the staff a top 15 QB, and with their system and coaching they could win a Super Bowl. What a slap to the face of Brady, and also players like Gronk, Edelman, White, ….

Did the Patriots staff become so arrogant that they thought they could win without top talent? That they were more important than the players that were on the field? Bill always said publicly that players win, coaches lose, but it doesn’t seem that was the thought going on inside the building. Thinking that scheme and coaching is more important than talent may be one of the reasons we are where we are.

 

[h0c2000]

Josh believed that Johnny Foxborough ********? What a fool.

 

[n6249c]

Another question: are Patriots fans more or less arrogant than the team organization?

 

[Pape]

Another question: are Patriots fans more or less arrogant than the team organization?

Currently 5th.

Steelers
Cowboys
Broncos
Chiefs
Patriots

 

[n6249c]

Currently 5th.

Steelers
Cowboys
Broncos
Chiefs
Patriots

But with staying power. According to fans in 31 out of 32 cities Patriots fans have been atop the rankings for over two decades.

 

[VrabelJr]

I mean... Josh wasn't wrong about Cutler. He just wasn't right about Brock Osweiler.

Regarding the Patriots, we need not read into it too much. We're cap strapped and coming off a talent drain. It takes time to replenish, if things go right.

 

[Pape]

Something I’ve been thinking about today after reading some of the articles that have come out about Josh McDaniels. This was from an ex- Broncos player:

“After trading Cutler, Josh addressed the entire team and said, “Fellas, don’t worry about the quarterback situation. I can turn a high school quarterback into an All-Pro.”

Wow. The arrogance and ego, not just to actually think that, but to say it. But then it got me thinking back to the article that came out a while ago, when an unnamed Patriots coach said that give the staff a top 15 QB, and with their system and coaching they could win a Super Bowl. What a slap to the face of Brady, and also players like Gronk, Edelman, White, ….

Did the Patriots staff become so arrogant that they thought they could win without top talent? That they were more important than the players that were on the field? Bill always said publicly that players win, coaches lose, but it doesn’t seem that was the thought going on inside the building. Thinking that scheme and coaching is more important than talent may be one of the reasons we are where we are.

There is always arrogance associated with continued winning... And as long as that winning continues it grows apace...

McDaniels made the cardinal sin of doing the same thing in Oakland that he did in Denver... Instead of using the players he had on the roster to build a competitive team, he shot himself in the foot by blowing up the roster before he was able to achieve any degree of success...

Here in New England there has been a talent drain of veteran coaches, players thru age and free agency... I think the loss of Ernie Adams has hurt game planning and overall strategery ... Coupled those losses with out right bad draft classes a few years in a row, we are no longer able to bridge the that gap...

While the recent drafts have been better, we still lack in the talent department... Both on a coaching level and a player level... Ain't nobody's fault but BBs... Given enough time to fix it, he could ... But he's on a short leash, and time is the one commodity he can't barter for...

 

[Pape]

But with staying power. According to fans in 31 out of 32 cities Patriots fans have been atop the rankings for over two decades.

Staying power, so all time, based on my experiences on other boards
Steelers
Cowboys
Broncos
Patriots

We might be number 1 overall for all 31 other fanbases but, as you say, for two decades... The other fanbases, named above, have been carrying themselves that way for 40 years now...

But hey, I might be biased ... I am a homer

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

 

[raduray]

Another question: are Patriots fans more or less arrogant than the team organization?

I think the answer lies with the fans of our opponents who still hate us and rally to any opportunity to take us down.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Once upon a time the Pats were the feel good story/darlings of the NFL in 2001 - the Cinderella team. But that came to an end by 2004. With Bill and the players not cooperating with the media, then winning 3 Super Bowls out of 4 years is when the media started disliking the Pats. Both the media and fans were very happy when Denver beat them in 2005.

I would say the arrogance with team started during the 2003 season when they were getting a bunch of shutouts and going on that 12 game winning streak.

 

[mgteich]

But with staying power. According to fans in 31 out of 32 cities Patriots fans have been atop the rankings for over two decades.

yup, since 2001

 

[farn]

It’s not « too arrogant » to be the dominant team for ~20 years and then fall back to earth. No other team has been able to come close to that level of sustained excellence.

Good for NE and the amazing success. Hoping the downward turn isn’t too long and a winner can emerge again soonish.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Nah, mostly forgot how to draft. This year looks promising though and hopefully they can retain a good bit of the 2020 draft which was the only other good one recently

 

[Boomer B]

It’s not « too arrogant » to be the dominant team for ~20 years and then fall back to earth. No other team has been able to come close to that level of sustained excellence.

Good for NE and the amazing success. Hoping the downward turn isn’t too long and a winner can emerge again soonish.

Of course it’s not arrogant to be the dominant team, but from the looks of it there is a level of arrogance within the staff when you hear “give us a top 15 QB and with our system and coaching we can win a SB” or Josh D saying “I can take a high school QB and make him an All Pro”.

It’s like they forgot it’s the players who play the game, and you need great players.

 

[doesntmatter1]

I think it happens whenever the word dynasty gets thrown around. Also, Eric Mangini comes off arrogant as hell whenever he talks. Its seems to truly be a problem with the younger coaches like Joe Judge, Easterby, etc.

 

[ahmed]

Brady being a 6th rounder instead of a 1st rounder built the false perception/narrative that it was the coaching/system and not the players.

That, IMO, is the main reason Belichick got more credit relative to QB than any other successful coach. That myth then just blew out of control.

Of course that delusion infected fans too. Plenty of posters were talking about extending dynasty after Brady signed with Bucs.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I think it's Josh and maybe another guy or two that have been in the organization, I doubt BB would talk like that, members of his staff might though when they kept winning.

 

[1960Pats]

Something I’ve been thinking about today after reading some of the articles that have come out about Josh McDaniels. This was from an ex- Broncos player:

“After trading Cutler, Josh addressed the entire team and said, “Fellas, don’t worry about the quarterback situation. I can turn a high school quarterback into an All-Pro.”

Wow. The arrogance and ego, not just to actually think that, but to say it. But then it got me thinking back to the article that came out a while ago, when an unnamed Patriots coach said that give the staff a top 15 QB, and with their system and coaching they could win a Super Bowl. What a slap to the face of Brady, and also players like Gronk, Edelman, White, ….

Did the Patriots staff become so arrogant that they thought they could win without top talent? That they were more important than the players that were on the field? Bill always said publicly that players win, coaches lose, but it doesn’t seem that was the thought going on inside the building. Thinking that scheme and coaching is more important than talent may be one of the reasons we are where we are.

Patricia showed the same arrogance in Detroit and also threatened to end a player's career.

And wasn't the cheating scandal in 2007 partly a result of Bill's arrogance? It could have been.

There's no doubt that the Patriot Way means different things to different people, but that kind of arrogance is not what it's all about. If Kraft doesn't fix it then he's fine with it.

 

[1960Pats]

Of course it’s not arrogant to be the dominant team, but from the looks of it there is a level of arrogance within the staff when you hear “give us a top 15 QB and with our system and coaching we can win a SB” or Josh D saying “I can take a high school QB and make him an All Pro”.

It’s like they forgot it’s the players who play the game, and you need great players.

Was it arrogance that made Bill dump the GOAT QB and the GOAT TE or was it money? In the case of Tom especially Bill had to know how special he was.