Schefter claims Washington on trading block

[Seymour93]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

But you seem to disregard the fact that Caldwell's numbers are skewed by his first five games where he was struggling with his presnap route adjustments and his routes in general. In his first five games, he had 118 yards or 23.6 YPG. Even his sixth game where he caught five balls, he basically had mastered the short routes.

Caldwell was signed in March of 2006. He had minicamp, TC, all preseason, and five regular season games to finally get used to the offense. Who's fault is that?

 

[Seymour93]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

I didn't need to put up numerical facts to agree with that poster's points, chief. His points were self-evident to anyone with a brain. Or are you now going to claim that Caldwell wasn't the team's #1 receiver last season?

I never said Caldwell wasn't the #1. I'm taking issue with the poster's idiotic statement that Caldwell, "saved our asses." Just because he's the #1 doesn't mean he's good at what he's doing. Actually statistics show that overall Caldwell was one of the worst #1's in the league. Caldwell saved Indy's asses however, with those two horrendous drops.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

I never said Caldwell wasn't the #1. I'm taking issue with the poster's idiotic statement that Caldwell, "saved our asses." Just because he's the #1 doesn't mean he's good at what he's doing. Actually statistics show that overall Caldwell was one of the worst #1's in the league. Caldwell saved Indy's asses however, with those two horrendous drops.

Given the dire situation you described around him, it's clear that he did save their asses. Blaming a player who was brought in to be a #2 or #3 receiver for "only" catching 61 balls after being thrown in the fire of being the team's #1 receiver is asinine.

 

[Seymour93]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

For some MORE perspective, Brady had Dillon/Maroney in 2006, an actual running game, and in 2005 had a hampered, beat up Dillon and Heath Evans and other JUNK. This is a weak argument you're making, Seymour. That's a totally disingenuous thing you've done there.

So that renders the 2006 receptions chart completely useless? Or maybe you conveniently skipped over that.

 

[Seymour93]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

Given the dire situation you described around him, it's clear that he did save their asses. Blaming a player who was brought in to be a #2 or #3 receiver for "only" catching 61 balls after being thrown in the fire of being the team's #1 receiver is asinine.

And describing him as playing very good is asinine when by one of the Caldwellistas own admission, it took him five regular season weeks to just get the routes right.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

And describing him as playing very good is asinine when by one of the Caldwellistas own admission, it took him five regular season weeks to just get the routes right.

He did play very well, for a #2/#3 receiver forced into the role of a #1 receiver on a team.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

Caldwell was signed in March of 2006. He had minicamp, TC, all preseason, and five regular season games to finally get used to the offense. Who's fault is that?

And all minicamp, TC, and preseason he was preparing to be the #2 WR at most. Come on. The guy was brought in to be a supporting role to Deion Branch and the team never expected him to be the main guy until right before the season started because everyone thought Branch would give in eventually before the season started.

I bet if you had Kelley Washington start on the 9th, he would be lost. I bet if you had Tim Dwight or Andre Davis start in 2005, they would have been lost too.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

But you seem to disregard the fact that Caldwell's numbers are skewed by his first five games where he was struggling with his presnap route adjustments and his routes in general. In his first five games, he had 118 yards or 23.6 YPG. Even his sixth game where he caught five balls, he basically had mastered the short routes.

Caldwell took FAR too long to learn the offense - and I was posting here week in and week out blasting him for it, and blasting the OC for not doing anything to develop a semblance of a deep game.

But I think you're right - where we are NOW with Caldwell needs to recognize that he has learned the offense and developed his timing and reads with Brady.

I'm not sure why Seymour insists on blasting Caldwell saying "he's not a good #1 WR"

Who here is saying he should be our #1 WR? I look at him, Washington and Gaffney (with Gaffney ahead of most everyone) as guys who could all be very good #3 WRs.... maybe decent #2 WRs... but on our team we've got incredible depth because those guys are #4, 5 & 6

Symour93 also doesn't seem to think that Welker and other WRs will see easier coverage with Moss and Stallworth on the field.

If we sent Welker out there with only Watson as another WR threat, he'd be draped by defenses each and every play. I think that might adversely impact his numbers - Seymour93 seems to disagree.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

I never said Caldwell wasn't the #1. I'm taking issue with the poster's idiotic statement that Caldwell, "saved our asses." Just because he's the #1 doesn't mean he's good at what he's doing. Actually statistics show that overall Caldwell was one of the worst #1's in the league. Caldwell saved Indy's asses however, with those two horrendous drops.

First, his numbers over the second half the season puts him as an average #1 WR. Second, one of Caldwell's drops were irrelvant since we scored on the very next play. Third, his other drop didn't hurt us any more than Brady looking down Trroy Brown and throwing and INT to end the game. We could have overcome his other drop, but didn't.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

Caldwell took FAR too long to learn the offense - and I was posting here week in and week out blasting him for it, and blasting the OC for not doing anything to develop a semblance of a deep game.

But I think you're right - where we are NOW with Caldwell needs to recognize that he has learned the offense and developed his timing and reads with Brady.

I'm not sure why Seymour insists on blasting Caldwell saying "he's not a good #1 WR"

Who here is saying he should be our #1 WR? I look at him, Washington and Gaffney (with Gaffney ahead of most everyone) as guys who could all be very good #3 WRs.... maybe decent #2 WRs... but on our team we've got incredible depth because those guys are #4, 5 & 6

Symour93 also doesn't seem to think that Welker and other WRs will see easier coverage with Moss and Stallworth on the field.

If we sent Welker out there with only Watson as another WR threat, he'd be draped by defenses each and every play. I think that might adversely impact his numbers - Seymour93 seems to disagree.

I agree Caldwell took too long to learn our offense, but it is a hard offense to learn. Donald Hayes is still trying to learn it. It took Gaffney ten weeks to pick it up (granted he didn't have a preseason). I think the pressure of being thrusted into the #1 role might have affected him.

But on learning the offense, I think that is the reason we need Caldwell early. Stallworth, Welker, and Moss probably won't struggle as long with the offense as Caldwell had, but they are going to struggle at times early in the season. I don't want Gaffney being the only guy on the roster who has played with Brady before and knows the offense.

I do think Welker would struggle in a similiar situation. I think he is a better player than Caldwell so he probably wouldn't struggle as much. But Welker has been a slot WR most of his career so he would struggle with the primary role initially.

 

[MetalBleachers]

Lemme tell ya: I can't WAIT until final roster cuts to see how BB decides this argument. Caldwell on the bubble? Funny how much can change in one year.

 

[tombonneau]

Hahaha God bless the sanctimonious foot-tappers on this board. I'm sure Reche has been getting **** about his eyes since the day he was playing organized sports. Pretty sure he doesn't care. And I'm also pretty sure he wouldnt' switch places with me or any other normal glazzied folks on this board either. So let's please cut the holier than thou nonsense.

As far as his play & place on the team, I it speaks for itself. Running with the 3s in the most important preseason game says it all.

I pretty much said everything I want to say on Caldwell and his mediocrity back in the 500 page Caldwell vs. Gaffney thread, but to sum up my thesis he is a mediocre WR who choked on 2 out of 3 big plays in the playoffs. Sorry but that's not the guy I want coming off the bench in the AFCC.

Oh wow, he caught a perfectly thrown ball from Brady vs. SD! Sign him to a 6-year extension, quick!

Please. Even Chris Canty intercepted a few passes.

 

[captain stone]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

I think his point was that the Patriots traded a 5th for Gabriel last year...

how is that working out for ya...

And don't forget the '06 5th-rounder for Andre Davis the year before that.

Poor scouting/evaluation, therefore lousy asset management. The FO has learned its lesson, I hope.

 

[Rob0729]

Hahaha God bless the sanctimonious foot-tappers on this board. I'm sure Reche has been getting **** about his eyes since the day he was playing organized sports. Pretty sure he doesn't care. And I'm also pretty sure he wouldnt' switch places with me or any other normal glazzied folks on this board either. So let's please cut the holier than thou nonsense.

As far as his play & place on the team, I it speaks for itself. Running with the 3s in the most important preseason game says it all.

I pretty much said everything I want to say on Caldwell and his mediocrity back in the 500 page Caldwell vs. Gaffney thread, but to sum up my thesis he is a mediocre WR who choked on 2 out of 3 big plays in the playoffs. Sorry but that's not the guy I want coming off the bench in the AFCC.

Oh wow, he caught a perfectly thrown ball from Brady vs. SD! Sign him to a 6-year extension, quick!

Please. Even Chris Canty intercepted a few passes.

Caldwell played one series with the 3s. He played one series longer than Washington did. He also played 15 of the 39 plays in the first half according to Mike Reiss. So he also played with the ones. Washington was in there exclusively when the Pats were run crazy in the first two series, but he and Caldwell rotated when they started passing more evenly with running in the third series on. Washington's night ended on the last series of the third quarter and Caldwell's ended on the first series of the fourth quarter. So you are overstating him "running with the 3s".

 

[tombonneau]

Caldwell played one series with the 3s. He played one series longer than Washington did. He also played 15 of the 39 plays in the first half according to Mike Reiss. So he also played with the ones. Washington was in there exclusively when the Pats were run crazy in the first two series, but he and Caldwell rotated when they started passing more evenly with running in the third series on. Washington's night ended on the last series of the third quarter and Caldwell's ended on the first series of the fourth quarter. So you are overstating him "running with the 3s".

This has nothing to do with Washington. Look, I don't like either guy. My original beef was Gaffney was a better WR and fit for NE than Caldwell.

I have been proved right as at this point he is a roster lock and Caldwell is on the bubble.

As far as Washington vs. Caldwell, I'd be fine to start the season the WRs shake out as:

Moss
Stallworth
Welker
Gaffney
Caldwell

and have Troy bump Caldwell from the roster in Week 7.

That way I don't have to worry about Caldwell and his choke-o-city in the playoffs.

 

[Rob0729]

This has nothing to do with Washington. Look, I don't like either guy. My original beef was Gaffney was a better WR and fit for NE than Caldwell.

I have been proved right as at this point he is a roster lock and Caldwell is on the bubble.

As far as Washington vs. Caldwell, I'd be fine to start the season the WRs shake out as:

Moss
Stallworth
Welker
Gaffney
Caldwell

and have Troy bump Caldwell from the roster in Week 7.

That way I don't have to worry about Caldwell and his choke-o-city in the playoffs.

I picked Caldwell over Gaffney going into camp just because I wasn't sure that Gaffney's performance in the playoff was really him making the next step or just the circumstances made him shine. At this point, I would agree Gaffney is better than Caldwell.

I still just don't get why Caldwell gets all the blame for "choking". He dropped two passes. It wasn't as bad as Maroney fumbling on the goalline (he was lucky Mankins fell on the ball) or Brady looking down Troy Brown and giving Marlon Jackson a heads up to make a play on the ball and intercept it. Caldwell did come up big against San Deigo and you can argue for him individually it was a more pressure filled situation since he was a former Charger.

As for Troy, I am not convinced he will be back immediately when he comes off PUP or that he won't get IRed.

 

[Deus Irae]

All the people making the claim that Gaffney is better than Caldwell or that he has an edge on him in camp, including any reporters claiming this, should be forced to listen to John Tesh/Celine Dion Cd's for 12 hours straight every day for a month. As the Baugher waiving shows us, once again, in a BB camp, things are quite often different than they appear.

The truth is that nobody outside of that team (and not many of them, either) has anything more than a guess as to how the receiver battle is going to shake out. We can be reasonably certain that Stallworth, Moss and Welker are on the squad, and we know Jackson will be start off the yearon pup. After that, it's nothing but pure speculation.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

schefter is wired into the league, everything he reports has legs

You gotta keep in mind the NFL owns NFL Network, and they want subscribers. It would not surprise me a bit for the NFL to give Shefter info in order to scoop ESPN in reporting new developments.

 

[spacecrime]

Caldwell played one series with the 3s. He played one series longer than Washington did. He also played 15 of the 39 plays in the first half according to Mike Reiss. So he also played with the ones. Washington was in there exclusively when the Pats were run crazy in the first two series, but he and Caldwell rotated when they started passing more evenly with running in the third series on. Washington's night ended on the last series of the third quarter and Caldwell's ended on the first series of the fourth quarter. So you are overstating him "running with the 3s".

Hey! You've been warned before about bringing facts into heated discussions. Knock it off.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Re: "Schefter claims Washington on trading block

I keep forgetting about that hit he took last year. That was right up there on the tough-guy scale with Bruschi's amazing Gumbi imitation and his incredible bending leg. (Thinking about it still gives me the willies)

I think you're right on the disgraceful remark too. I wish more would remember from time to time, that some players and their family do read this board. I hope Caldwell isn't one of them, because sometimes it gets down to playground-level insults. (Yeah, I'm sure I've probably been guilty of it too.)

Hate him, want him gone, whatever... the dude's still a Patriot right now. Just something to remember.

I can agree to a point... we (I) are being a little abrasive on him... but he should know that this is part of being a professional. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.