REPORT: Mankins' [Tender Offer] Reduced - was offered 7 mil per season

[MoLewisrocks]

Football Outsiders has a full article on Evans contract. He's getting 25.6M in the first 3 years. My guess is you're exactly right, the guaranteed money is much less for Mankins.

Considering that the guaranteed money/money over 3 years is the only really important part of the contract, its not surprising he'd be pissed.

Only I just read over at the Planet that there is a report that the problem may be that the team wanted him to play for/fold in the tender salary this season (like Deion honoring his final rookie season as part of any extension here) which in his mind lowers his average from the $7M over 5 to $6.5M over 6. Which might be a valid concern except that the rumor also claims there was $25M in guaranteed money...so again, if that's the case, boo freakin' hoo you delusional cowboy.

 

[SanAngeloState]

I just want to say that I wanted to trade him before the draft. But I was called a troll and a loser and an idiot for that.

Now it appears that is exactly what they should have done.

They are going to get minimal picks for a guy who wants that kind of salary.

What can they do?

I would demand at least a 2nd, but what do you do if there are no takers? 7M per year? And he turned it down? At the end of that contract, he'll be what, 33, 34? That's nuts.

So what happens if he can't find somenoe he feels is willing to pay him his worth?

 

[N.Eman]

Re: REPORT: Mankins' Contract Reduced

Never mind that Mankins isn't as good as Jahri Evans.

7M a year for 5 years....... Gee, we really low-balled him.

What's that about $12 a penalty? :singing:

Screw his overaggressive, penalty-incurring ass. He one of the more OVER-rated Patriots there is. Our only issue is we don't have a replacement yet. That's it.

Possible it could lead to another Adalius Thomas situation. High priced players who end up not producing as expected (in later years). Well it is what it is, lets hope this wind of a closing door opens another great athlete.

 

[captain stone]

I notice you avoided answering the question.



What position is easier to find an adequate replacement?

Though not directed at me, I hope you don't mind if I answer the question:

Running Back.

After RB & OG, CB completes my list of positions on the NEP relatively easy to fill.

On teams employing a 4-3 defense, DT & DE would be #s 4 & 5; on our team, unfortunately, even those 2 positions take awhile to master.

And on almost every other team, WR would compete for a spot in the top 6; on our team, unfortunately, even a grizzled vet like Joey Galloway fails to make the grade.

 

[Pats726]

From what I can gather NO never released any details on the Evans deal other than he gets $12M in signing bonus doled out incrementally between March 2010 and January 2011 and a $7M salary this season. No mention of further guarantees. No further details on salary structure. Todd Archer from Dallas reported that the rest of the contract is believed to be pretty standard with $500K roster bonuses in the final two seasons... That would mean his salaries beyond 2007 are roughly $6M per although there is the possibility they are somewhat backloaded since that is closer to the standard... Bauer says we offered 20% less, and he's likely talking about the $19M in essentially guaranteed money or total value tied to years (5 vs. 7). So $15M guaranteed on a 5 year $35M deal. Boo freakin' hoo if that's the case.

Reiss in his mailbag this morning, while cautioning to wait for the details to assess the offer, seems to think the disconnect with Mankins is tied to his personal (unrealistic) expectation he would be given a very top of the market deal to make up for his honoring a rookie deal he outplayed. NO seemed to take that tack with Evans, although as someone pointed out after being drafted in the 4th Evans, who is 2 years younger than Mankins to boot, exponentially farther outplayed his rookie deal than the first rounder... Ergo when Mankins deal advanced no farther than merely top five he felt betrayed, although I doubt anyone in this FO ever mislead him into believing he would get a top of the market deal, not to mention history were he remotely congnizant of it would underscore they never do those.

Reiss thinks there will be no further discussions and Mankins is determined to no longer play here. Arrogance, ignorance, ego...ride 'em cowboy. Wait til he finds out that sometimes when you go elsewhere and they don't have great or even stable coaching or decent QBing or talent playing alonside you people decide you suck and they never should have traded for or signed you and you never see a fraction of the deal you thought you had earned playing here...let alone the bulk of a deal you'd have seen had you remained, and you wind up auditioning as a JAG for the remainder of your NFL career.

YOU HIT the nail on the head with this one....HOME RUN!! Mankins OUT by a mile...

 

[captain stone]

Only I just read over at the Planet that there is a report that the problem may be that the team wanted him to play for/fold in the tender salary this season (like Deion honoring his final rookie season as part of any extension here) which in his mind lowers his average from the $7M over 5 to $6.5M over 6. Which might be a valid concern except that the rumor also claims there was $25M in guaranteed money...so again, if that's the case, boo freakin' hoo you delusional cowboy.

That is a very valid concern.

Esp. in an uncapped year, the FO should rip up Mankins' tender salary and begin the new contract this season. After all, he should've been an Unrestricted FA and as such would never have had to accept a contract with such a relatively low first year salary, even after signing bonus is added. The club has him for an extra year it would not normally have had, and is taking an undue & petty advantage of it, if that is indeed the case.

Otherwise, I feel that Mankins & his representation are completely out of line with their statements, esp. when taking the current economic times into account. He has no way of verifying - short of providing a tape of his & the FO's conversations - that the FO has indeed reneged on a verbal promise made to him last season, so it is very disingenuous of him to even make that accusation without proof.

Also, if his agent claims that the Pats' offer is 80% of that signed by Jahri Evans, then he should consider that offer an over-payment by at least 5%. Mankins is at best 3/4 the player that Evans is. As BaltimorePatsFan (& maybe others) has noted, Mankins had the chance, on the biggest stage in football history, to place himself among the very best OGs anywhere, and he failed - miserably. In fact, failing on the big stages (POs) has been a bit of a regular occurence with him, for some reason. A lack of composure, perhaps, such as that rearing its ugly head again yesterday?

The bad news in the short-term is that OxyKaczur returns to the starting lineup.
The good news is that he's not playing either Tackle position.
The other bad news is that there is now nothing but useless, worthless crap at all of the backup interior positions. Perhaps Ted Larson has a chance; the others - fuhgeddaboud'em.

 

[RayClay]

Though not directed at me, I hope you don't mind if I answer the question:

Running Back.

After RB & OG, CB completes my list of positions on the NEP relatively easy to fill.

On teams employing a 4-3 defense, DT & DE would be #s 4 & 5; on our team, unfortunately, even those 2 positions take awhile to master.

And on almost every other team, WR would compete for a spot in the top 6; on our team, unfortunately, even a grizzled vet like Joey Galloway fails to make the grade.

We've had a lot of injuries at running back over the years. I have not found an effective running back usually available. You can find running backs no one wants that can't do the job.

Corey Dillon played a whole season on one leg because we couldn't find one decent running back, just for example.

We have used some Jag corner backs, but i would chalk that up to having the best defensive mind in the game as our coach. we've certainly traded for and paid for some real crappy ones too.

Any point is arguable and so is this one. I would just say that comparing this situation to tying up Wilfork runs pretty much the entire spectrum, between no adequate replacement and a lot. Of course we're not talking about replacing a star player, that's obviously never immediately possible, which is why they get paid.

Wilfork, Seymour in a 3-4, virtually irreplaceable. Mankins at Guard, sliding scale. As raw as he is, I think Vollmer is our most valuable future lineman.

 

[Urgent]

I hope that this is not irreconcilable.

Mankins may want out now, but it's still possible he can come to a deal.
New England may have reduced the tender, but they can still negotiate.

I think reducing the deal is spiteful. Just because Mankins has refused a very generous offer doesn't mean he isn't worth $3mm under the tender. In the worst case, NE could have paid him $3mm, franchised him, and traded him, just as many other players have been franchised and traded (including Cassel and Tebucky Jones with the Pats). If the Pats believe that Mankins is worth $7mm a year, then one year at $3mm plus trade value is a lot of extra value.

Mankins might have eventually agreed to play out the year, or in the end offered to come in with an agreement not to franchise him, again like others recently (Asante Samuel, for example). Again, if he is worth $7mm, that's $4mm in value. Reducing the tender essentially loses all that value under either case. Just seems spiteful, poor business sense. We'll show you.

 

[Spiral]

Call his agent's bluff. If he's worth a contract comparable to Evans, then he's worth a (potentially) mid or high second. If the agent can get some team to cough up that kind of contract and the pick, then the agent was right. If not, sign the tender and STFU.

 

[VJCPatriot]

What happens if Mankins doesn't sign his tender? Can we still trade him?

No, you can't trade someone who isn't under contract. This was the situation with Julius Peppers last season, he wouldn't sign his tender so nobody could trade for him until then.

I think reducing the deal is spiteful. Just because Mankins has refused a very generous offer doesn't mean he isn't worth $3mm under the tender. In the worst case, NE could have paid him $3mm, franchised him, and traded him, just as many other players have been franchised and traded (including Cassel and Tebucky Jones with the Pats). If the Pats believe that Mankins is worth $7mm a year, then one year at $3mm plus trade value is a lot of extra value.

And he would be an even more valuable trade commodity at 1.8m per year. It's not spiteful at all. The Pats warned him, you need to sign your tender by X date, or we will excercise our option to reduce your tender. Mankins is the one who thumbed his nose off at both the tender and the contract offer. The reduction is all on him because he knew it was coming if he did NOTHING before the deadline. And that's exactly what happened. Sounds like either Mankins is too greedy or his agent is giving him bad advice.

Mankins might have eventually agreed to play out the year, or in the end offered to come in with an agreement not to franchise him, again like others recently (Asante Samuel, for example). Again, if he is worth $7mm, that's $4mm in value. Reducing the tender essentially loses all that value under either case. Just seems spiteful, poor business sense. We'll show you.

No, it's called, the Patriots have all the leverage in this situation. They gave Mankins notice, and he chose to ignore that notice, thus his tender was reduced. If he thought 7m per year was a slap in the face, well learn to live on a 'measly' 1.8m. Seriously. He is not important enough to dictate his contract to the team. Nor would I give him a 'no franchise' clause to play out the year. I'd franchise him every year it would be financially feasible, much like Walter Jones. After all he'd be getting top 5 guard money, but that's already what the Pats offered.

 

[mgteich]

1) Mankins has no reason to consider any long-term deal from the patriots. He has no reason to want to play for the organization long-term.

2) Mankins and the patriots both have every reason to negotiate a reasonable one-year contract and move on. After all, given the difference in perceived value, there never was going to be a long-term agreement. The patriots may have offered Mankins a "fair" deal. That makes ZERO difference. Mankins doesn't want the deal the patriots offered or anything close to it. The only question now is whether Mankins will play much football in 2010 and for whom.

3) The decision is (as has always been the case) all in the patriots court. The team can have him play part of a season for $1.5M and be locker issue all year. The team can negotiate a reasonable one year deal with Mankins and this will not be an issue once the deal is signed. Or the team can trade him.

BOTTOM LINE
I think that the team is smart enough to have decided what to do in the present situation, especially since it is certainly the most likely result of their negotiation strategy.

Personally, I would expect a one-year contract. But then, I am not a very good predictor of these things. I would never have expected the dumping of Seymour last year. A trade is quite possible. Give it another week and almost all of Patriot Nation will agree that Mankins is a mediocre performer and a whiner and we will better off without him. Many posters have already posted such drivel many time in the last 48 hours.

I hope that this is not irreconcilable.

Mankins may want out now, but it's still possible he can come to a deal.
New England may have reduced the tender, but they can still negotiate.

I think reducing the deal is spiteful. Just because Mankins has refused a very generous offer doesn't mean he isn't worth $3mm under the tender. In the worst case, NE could have paid him $3mm, franchised him, and traded him, just as many other players have been franchised and traded (including Cassel and Tebucky Jones with the Pats). If the Pats believe that Mankins is worth $7mm a year, then one year at $3mm plus trade value is a lot of extra value.

Mankins might have eventually agreed to play out the year, or in the end offered to come in with an agreement not to franchise him, again like others recently (Asante Samuel, for example). Again, if he is worth $7mm, that's $4mm in value. Reducing the tender essentially loses all that value under either case. Just seems spiteful, poor business sense. We'll show you.

 

[Deus Irae]

1)Give it another week and almost all of Patriot Nation will agree that Mankins is a mediocre performer and a whiner and we will better off without him. Many posters have already posted such drivel many time in the last 48 hours.

Bruschi gets it:

“Logan doesn’t say much, so when he speaks, he means it,” Bruschi said in the clip above. “And when he talks about keeping your word and how you treat people, these are strong words from a strong-minded man. I don’t anticipate seeing Logan Mankins in a Patriots uniform anytime soon.”

Bruschi: Mankins situation could get ugly - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

It's too bad that so many in the fan base don't seem to.

 

[JMarr]

Bruschi gets it:



Bruschi: Mankins situation could get ugly - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

It's too bad that so many in the fan base don't seem to.

I think a lot of people get it: the man felt insulted by the Pats, so he insulted the organization back and burned his bridges. Nothing wrong with that I guess
......except maybe that Mankins is in total denial about the reality of the situation he found himself in. Oops.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Originally Posted by mgteich
1)Give it another week and almost all of Patriot Nation will agree that Mankins is a mediocre performer and a whiner and we will better off without him. Many posters have already posted such drivel many time in the last 48 hours.

Bruschi gets it:


Quote:
“Logan doesn’t say much, so when he speaks, he means it,” Bruschi said in the clip above. “And when he talks about keeping your word and how you treat people, these are strong words from a strong-minded man. I don’t anticipate seeing Logan Mankins in a Patriots uniform anytime soon.”

Bruschi: Mankins situation could get ugly - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

It's too bad that so many in the fan base don't seem to.

Maybe Logan doesnt get it. Maybe hes not worth more than 7/35 to the Pats or any other team right now. Maybe if he plays til free agency things will be different.
And I think its already got ugly, its past ugly.

 

[BSR]

Bruschi gets it:



Bruschi: Mankins situation could get ugly - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

It's too bad that so many in the fan base don't seem to.

Now who's reading into statements. How is anything Teddy said disconnected from what "many in the fan base" have stated? There isn't a huge contingent here that think he will be coming back to the table or that don't realize that Mankins feels insulted.

 

[vyrago]

1) Give it another week and almost all of Patriot Nation will agree that Mankins is a mediocre performer and a whiner and we will better off without him.

But the point is does BB care what posters think? If he did wouldn't Seymour, Branch, Samuel, et. al still be here? Hell,Troy Brown would still be here.

 

[capetide]

1) Give it another week and almost all of Patriot Nation will agree that Mankins is a mediocre performer and a whiner and we will better off without him. Many posters have already posted such drivel many time in the last 48 hours.

Almost all? Don't think so. I appreciate Mankins' on-field performance for the team and can understand his frustration. What IS disappointing is his insulting, irresponsible, and destructive comments. IF Mankins actually wanted to be traded, the process could have been more easily facilitated if he had chosen to keep his comments private and communicate to the organization through proper channels. As one who has dealt with contract negotiations in the business world for many years, his negotiating team, i.e., agent, never should have left his client psychologically unprepared to adequately deal with the apparent current impasse. Now, in order to effect a solution, both sides have to repair the damage done before even beginning to resolve what was the primary objective, addressing Mankins' contract issues. My impression of the man was that he seemed to be relatively mature and thoughtful in his approach with the media, so , in that regard, his comments were disappointing.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Almost all? Don't think so. I appreciate Mankins' on-field performance for the team and can understand his frustration. What IS disappointing is his insulting, irresponsible, and destructive comments. IF Mankins actually wanted to be traded, the process could have been more easily facilitated if he had chosen to keep his comments private and communicate to the organization through proper channels. As one who has dealt with contract negotiations in the business world for many years, his negotiating team, i.e., agent, never should have left his client psychologically unprepared to adequately deal with the apparent current impasse. Now, in order to effect a solution, both sides have to repair the damage done before even beginning to resolve what was the primary objective, addressing Mankins' contract issues. My impression of the man was that he seemed to be relatively mature and thoughtful in his approach with the media, so , in that regard, his comments were disappointing.

Well said, speaking from real world experience. But I do sympathise emotionally with any player/employee who believes that he was lied to or deliberately "misled" by management. Tends to piss ya off.

Along this tread topic, elswhere I'd stated...

Sure, most anyone not independently wealthy usually wants to max out their earnings. But some reality. I worked for many years in high tech. After a decade of computer jockdom, most of the time I was in mid to upper management, Director to VP. The reality for the vast majority of us not working at the ciscos or Microsofts was that most companies grow and inevitably retrench. Read layoffs. What happened first in most every case was that we, as management first cut our salaries at least 10%. These weren't big salaries compared to well compensated good engineers. Not anywhere near the % difference between basic NFL starters and JAGs. The next step to avoid layoffs, we'd cut everyone's salaries 5%. After that, things really sucked. The moral of the story is that in the private sector there are many times where actions to preserve jobs or the company's existance required people taking less than "market value".

To me this is analogous to a player taking less than the very top salary for a position such that the team can field a balanced squad with some depth. It's clear that the vast majority of these already multi-millionaires to whom a few % less means nothing noticable in life style or post NFL retirement don't really value winning championships that much. I waste little sympathy for those so self-absorbed that they want their max at the potential expense of those way down on the team food chain.

 

[ausbacker]

But the point is does BB care what posters think? If he did wouldn't Seymour, Branch, Samuel, et. al still be here? Hell,Troy Brown would still be here.

If BB cared what posters thought he'd fly me in, sign me as a walk on, give me lots of money and a G5 aeroplane.

 

[IllegalContact]

I think a lot of people get it: the man felt insulted by the Pats, so he insulted the organization back and burned his bridges. Nothing wrong with that I guess
......except maybe that Mankins is in total denial about the reality of the situation he found himself in. Oops.

and what is the reality of the patriots situation now? the impact of mankins not being here will not be really felt until week 1, and then the big 'uh-oh' will come in the same manner as when you watched monty biesel play LB, and in the same manner as when you saw duane starks get burned repeatedly.

maybe the pats are in a bit of denial now, too