REPORT: Mankins' [Tender Offer] Reduced - was offered 7 mil per season

[IllegalContact]

Sigh...the reason that people are criticizing Mankins is because he was the one that chose to speak. If he didn't chose to air his dirty laundry I'm sure there may have been a few fans that would have resented him for his hold out but I think most would have understood. Many didn't expect him to sign a long term deal to begin with. But instead he chose to come out and speak. Well guess what? That means everything he says is fair game. As the only side speaking out in this situation he gets to lay out his side of the story fair and square. And based solely on his words, his gripe doesn't hold much water. So if he wanted people to sympathize with his situation, maybe he should have been more clear. Unless of course there was really nothing more than what he stated.

nothing holds much water right now as the real facts are unknown. if you wish to criticize him for speaking up regardless of the basis, then that is your prerogative. but judging without the facts is wrong. just because the current regime chooses not to talk about anything does not make what mankins does say wrong. the short of it is that he is not under contract to the pats, so the silence expected from those who are is irrelevant.

I'll choose to wait until this plays out some more to decide whether he is wrong or not.

 

[Deus Irae]

Nah, only the contratian for contrarian sake contingent is in denial, as usual.

Given that my position, all along, has been that Mankins should have called out the NFLPA for allowing this situation to arise in the first place rather than demanding a trade, and also that we don't know what happened and shouldn't be assuming anything, you should probably learn what "contrarian" means.

It's probably tough to see reality when you're as deeply in the Patriots' pocket as you are, though, so that's probably why you missed all of that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why even bother responding. Obviously you can't refute it.

:confused2:

Given that you were completely off base in regards to what I was talking about and were just spouting gibberish on a different subject, there was nothing to refute. That's why I questioned whether it was a joke that fell flat.

 

[captain stone]

there is no answer, so don't ask the question

There's always an answer; we just need to keep asking until we learn it.

 

[BSR]

:confused2:

Given that you were completely off base in regards to what I was talking about and were just spouting gibberish on a different subject, there was nothing to refute. That's why I questioned whether it was a joke that fell flat.

You posted two sentences and a quote. The first sentence was to say that Bruschi gets it. Then you quoted him. Then inferred that most here didn't get it. I then responded that your Bruschi quote reflected the same thoughts of posters here so I wasn't sure how we didn't "get it" but Bruschi does. So if you want to tell me I am completely off base...er...ok?

 

[BSR]

nothing holds much water right now as the real facts are unknown. if you wish to criticize him for speaking up regardless of the basis, then that is your prerogative. but judging without the facts is wrong. just because the current regime chooses not to talk about anything does not make what mankins does say wrong. the short of it is that he is not under contract to the pats, so the silence expected from those who are is irrelevant.

I'll choose to wait until this plays out some more to decide whether he is wrong or not.

There are no "real facts" that will ever be known. No tape of their conversation will surface. No transcript of the negotiations will be released. I know that the Patriots won't release any statements about it. All we have is conjecture on what Mankin's presented. When his own statements are internally inconsistent then what else are we supposed to think?

I know there are some like you and Deus that would prefer that we look beyond and read the tea leaves of what is happening behind the scenes but on the surface he doesn't seem to have a legitimate gripe. And this is just going off of his statements.

So feel free to continue to wait for the facts to come out, but this isn't the Jets, we aren't going to find out a whole lot more.

 

[patsinthesnow]

:confused2:

Given that you were completely off base in regards to what I was talking about and were just spouting gibberish on a different subject, there was nothing to refute. That's why I questioned whether it was a joke that fell flat.

To celebrate my 1500th post.

 

[Deus Irae]

You posted two sentences and a quote. The first sentence was to say that Bruschi gets it. Then you quoted him. Then inferred that most here didn't get it. I then responded that your Bruschi quote reflected the same thoughts of posters here so I wasn't sure how we didn't "get it" but Bruschi does. So if you want to tell me I am completely off base...er...ok?

You can't be correctly claiming that you have no disconnect about what Bruschi said when Bruschi's talking about Mankins being a man of principle based upon his actual knowledge of the man, and you're bashing Mankins as a liar when you don't know what was actually going on.

It's pretty simple really, and you were about as off base as it gets.

 

[BSR]

You can't be correctly claiming that you have no disconnect about what Bruschi said when Bruschi's talking about Mankins being a man of principle based upon his actual knowledge of the man, and you're bashing Mankins as a liar when you don't know what was actually going on.

It's pretty simple really, and you were about as off base as it gets.

For someone that likes to criticize people for reading into things, you sure like to take liberties with what people say. Bruschi said nothing about Mankins being a man of "principle". He didn't say anything about him about lying or not lying.

This is what you quoted and this is what he said:

“Logan doesn’t say much, so when he speaks, he means it,” Bruschi said in the clip above. “And when he talks about keeping your word and how you treat people, these are strong words from a strong-minded man. I don’t anticipate seeing Logan Mankins in a Patriots uniform anytime soon.”

Taken on their face those words mean exactly that Mankins is pissed off and feels deceived. That's it. Nothing else but you've taken it as verification of your entire contrarian position.

There are some here that think Mankins is genuinely pissed off. Some may think its a negotiation ploy. The real criticism isn't if Mankins is or isn't pissed off. Its if his is or isn't is rightfully pissed off. Bruschi said nothing to that, unless of course you read into his statements....

 

[Deus Irae]

For someone that likes to criticize people for reading into things, you sure like to take liberties with what people say. Bruschi said nothing about Mankins being a man of "principle". He didn't say anything about him about lying or not lying.

This is what you quoted and this is what he said:

“Logan doesn’t say much, so when he speaks, he means it,” Bruschi said in the clip above. “And when he talks about keeping your word and how you treat people, these are strong words from a strong-minded man. I don’t anticipate seeing Logan Mankins in a Patriots uniform anytime soon.”

Taken on their face those words mean exactly that Mankins is pissed off and feels deceived. That's it. Nothing else but you've taken it as verification of your entire contrarian position.

There are some here that think Mankins is genuinely pissed off. Some may think its a negotiation ploy. The real criticism isn't if Mankins is or isn't pissed off. Its if or isn't he is rightfully pissed off. Bruschi said nothing to that, unless of course you read into his statements....

I know what he said, my point stands, and you're still as wrong as ever on the topic. Now, are you going to claim that Bruschi's idea of a principled person is one that deliberately makes public lies? If not, you've got no point, which is par for the course for you on this topic.

As for the contrarian crap: when the herd is wrong, I'm not going to follow the herd. You choose to be a sheep. Congrats to you.

 

[patsinthesnow]

As for the contrarian crap: when the herd is wrong, I'm not going to follow the herd. You choose to be a sheep. Congrats to you.

I'm a sheep baaaaah

 

[BSR]

I know what he said, my point stands, and you're still as wrong as ever on the topic. Now, are you going to claim that Bruschi's idea of a principled person is one that deliberately makes public lies? If not, you've got no point, which is par for the course for you on this topic.

As for the contrarian crap: when the herd is wrong, I'm not going to follow the herd. You choose to be a sheep. Congrats to you.

I'm not trying to guess Bruschi's idea's like you. I have no idea what they are. That's why I can take what he is saying at face value. His only comments are that he feels Mankins is genuinely pissed off. Those don't run against my own feelings that Mankins' comments were bogus based on the what he presented to us. He can genuinely feel pissed off and be wrong about it at the same time.

And how do you know that the "herd" is wrong in this case? Oh yeah, Bruschi secretly conveyed it to you in a hidden message just for you. Us poor sheep are limited to just reading his words.

 

[captain stone]

I would expect a little of both. I would certainly not expect Bill to tell Mankins the truth with regard to team plans last year. I would fully expect Bill to lie to Mankins. And I also see no reason for Mankins to tell the public the whole truth now.

Why would you not only expect, but fully expect, Bill to lie to Mankin$?
Is it because all employers lie to their employees,
or because all NFL FOs lie to their players,
or because Bill himself lies to his players?

And why shouldn't Mankin$ tell the public the whole truth now? He started this mess by opening his yap; the least he should do is explain, in detail, why he feels lied to, and who specifically did the lying.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not trying to guess Bruschi's idea's like you. I have no idea what they are. That's why I can take what he is saying at face value.

I'm not guessing Bruchi's ideas at all. "“And when he talks about keeping your word and how you treat people,"

Pretty clear.

His only comments are that he feels Mankins is genuinely pissed off. Those don't run against my own feelings that Mankins' comments were bogus based on the what he presented to us. He can genuinely feel pissed off and be wrong about it at the same time.

His comments were more than that.

And how do you know that the "herd" is wrong in this case? Oh yeah, Bruschi secretly conveyed it to you in a hidden message just for you. Us poor sheep are limited to just reading his words.

My positions:

1.) Mankins should be blaming the Union for agreeing to the CBA and the trade request earns him no sympathy from me.

No offense, Logan, but take it up with the NFLPA. The players weren't complaining when the CBA bumped the cap up to over $120 million dollars, after all. I absolutely agree that the RFAs are getting hosed, and there's probably been collusion, but the "trade me" stuff doesn't score points with me. You'd only be moving on to another team that was colluding to keep salaries down, after all.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/344570-reiss-mankins-demands-trade-will-not-sign-rfa-tender.html#post1838308

2.) Nonetheless, people are wrong to bash Mankins without knowing what's going on.

Again, that's not evidence that Mankins claim is bogus. That's the point. Mankins claim is based upon how he perceives things. There's no absolute refutation here.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/344571-logan-mankins-i-want-traded.html#post1838573

They are wrong to do that. It's pretty basic stuff here. I'm sorry that you can't seem to grasp it.

 

[BSR]

I'm not guessing Bruchi's ideas at all. "“And when he talks about keeping your word and how you treat people,"

Pretty clear.

Actually that phrase on its own isn't clear at all. In fact it doesn't mean anything. Even if you complete the quote of that sentence, "And when he talks about keeping your word and how you treat people, these are strong words from a strong-minded man." All he is really saying is that this is an important subject to Mankins. He doesn't state that he thinks Mankins was lied to. How could he? He wasn't there.

His comments were more than that.

Only to those special few with the tinfoil hats that receive the secret transmissions.

My positions:

1.) Mankins should be blaming the Union for agreeing to the CBA and the trade request earns him no sympathy from me.

I can understand this.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/344570-reiss-mankins-demands-trade-will-not-sign-rfa-tender.html#post1838308

2.) Nonetheless, people are wrong to bash Mankins without knowing what's going on.

Mankins opened the door to it. If he wanted to throw the barbs he should be ready to receive them as well. And if is attack isn't clear then the criticism is deserved.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/344571-logan-mankins-i-want-traded.html#post1838573

They are wrong to do that. It's pretty basic stuff here. I'm sorry that you can't seem to grasp it.

Us simple folk do try to get by as best we can.

However, that is complete nonsense. Your asking us to look at it from the subjective perspective as opposed to the objective one. It doesn't really matter if Logan thinks he is right. Of course he thinks he is right. The questions is if his claim holds water to an objective observer. On its face, based on what he has told us, it doesn't.

Sorry, I am so on base it isn't even funny.

 

[captain stone]

Can anyone find one or any of the stories that came out when Mankins was drafted? I seem to remember that there was some questions about his surgically repaired knee(s?). If his knee(s?) are questionable, we may know why both sides are acting they way they are. Mankins may know "this is it" for him and that he has to make this next contract his best and the Patriots may know "this is it" and that Mankins is going to start the inevitable physical decline.

I seem to recall that story, too.

Ah, here it is:
SI.com - 2005 NFL Draft - Logan Mankins

and another:
USATODAY.com

So Mankin$ missed the '03 season when he tore the ACL in his left knee, but he played all of '04, and every game as a pro - that's 6 straight years. I don't think that the health of his knee was a factor in what has transpired. I just wish I knew what the heck the real factors are into what has transpired.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually that phrase on its own isn't clear at all. In fact it doesn't mean anything. Even if you complete the quote of that sentence, "And when he talks about keeping your word and how you treat people, these are strong words from a strong-minded man." All he is really saying is that this is an important subject to Mankins. He doesn't state that he thinks Mankins was lied to. How could he? He wasn't there.

You'll note that I never claimed that he stated such. How is it possible for you to miss the obvious so often?

Only to those special few with the tinfoil hats that receive the secret transmissions.

Or read his comments, which were clearly more than you stated in the post I was responding to.

Mankins opened the door to it. If he wanted to throw the barbs he should be ready to receive them as well. And if is attack isn't clear then the criticism is deserved.

That is the stupidest argument, outside of wishing for injury, that anyone has made on the subject.

Us simple folk do try to get by as best we can.

You're failing miserably.

However, that is complete nonsense. Your asking us to look at it from the subjective perspective as opposed to the objective one.

I'm obviously asking no such thing.

It doesn't really matter if Logan thinks he is right. Of course he thinks he is right. The questions is if his claim holds water to an objective observer. On its face, based on what he has told us, it doesn't.

Sorry, I am so on base it isn't even funny.

That's 100% inaccurate. Based upon what he's told you, His claim obviously holds water, 100%. It can't help but do so, given that no verified opposing evidence has come out. The question is whether or not his version of events is accurate and to what degree of accuracy.

 

[BSR]

You'll note that I never claimed that he stated such. How is it possible for you to miss the obvious so often?

Because you didn't claim anything. All you said is "pretty clear". Obviously not to us simple folk without the ability to read minds.

Or read his comments, which were clearly more than you stated in the post I was responding to.

Please show me the specific phrases I am misinterpreting. The only you have highlighted so far doesn't support your statements.

That is the stupidest argument, outside of wishing for injury, that anyone has made on the subject.

Sorry, in society you can't going around making outrageous claims without support, evidence or at least internally consistent argument. I know, crazy.

You're failing miserably.

I'm doing wonderfully. My claim is based on how I perceive things. This can't be refuted.

I'm obviously asking no such thing.

Obviously you are. Asking us to view things from his perception of events is specifically subjective.

That's 100% inaccurate. Based upon what he's told you, His claim obviously holds water, 100%. It can't help but do so, given that no verified opposing evidence has come out. The question is whether or not his version of events is accurate and to what degree of accuracy.

Er...no...not when his own agent contradicts his message. Unless you want to assume that his agent is lying about receiving a long term deal from the Patriots, then his gripe about the promise from Kraft about having his contract ADDRESSED is on its face BOGUS. Now maybe he didn't mean addressed. Maybe there was more to it. I don't know because he didn't tell us. Furthermore I don't have one of your tinfoil hats that allows us to read his thoughts so I am SOL and only can go by what he says. What he has given us so far does not hold water.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

BSR, you're a regular Kenny Norton.

YouTube - Gary Coleman gets knocked out.

 

[BSR]

BSR, you're a regular Kenny Norton.

YouTube - Gary Coleman gets knocked out.

I'm just a simple sheep who is not trying to spout so much gibberish as I am failing miserably. If I didn't miss the obvious so often, I would probably feel insulted.