Reiss: Pats should Thank Niners for Passing on Mac

[sb1]

Yes, I agree. Lance better be pretty good right out of the gate, or Lynch is kaput. If Lance has a slow start (or no start) and Mac lights it up then watch out. Of course this is all speculation on my part, but I loved what I saw of Mac, even before the draft (look it up). I had him rated as the number two QB after Wilson, who knows. There are also injuries to consider; rookie QBs don't know how to protect themselves and try to make too much out of broken plays.

I expect a great year for the Patriots. I think that they are just one player (a number one WR) away from a championship.

A lot more than that IMO especially at the most important position on the field.

I see a 7 or 8 win season in 2021. But things looking a lot brighter a year from now.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

A big part of a QBs success is the quality of coaching he receives, how his development is managed and the talent he is surrounded by.

Right now, there is no doubt Mac is in a better position to have a more successful career than Trev but it's early..

Sorry, but you’re really out of your element, RW. Posts like this reinforce why Team Bill must be cured of their delirium.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Sorry, but you’re really out of your element, RW. Posts like this reinforce why Team Bill must be cured of their delirium.

Urban Meyer is a disaster and so is the Jags roster.

Jackie Treehorn agrees.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Urban Meyer is a disaster and so is the Jags roster.

Jackie Treehorn agrees.

That’s not of great relevance to Trevor Lawrence’s long-term prospects.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That’s not of great relevance to Trevor Lawrence’s long-term prospects.

Sure it is

It is rare a #1 pick has a great career when the beginnings of it is a train wreck mired with crap rosters and horrible coaching

 

[TheRainMaker]

Urban Meyer is a disaster and so is the Jags roster.

Jackie Treehorn agrees.

His fate was sealed with the GM.

I have no sympathy for Lawrence if he fails. It’s mind boggling why more players are continually okay going to terrible organizations.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Sure it is

It is rare a #1 pick has a great career when the beginnings of it is a train wreck mired with crap rosters and horrible coaching

We’ll see on the Jags. Recent #1 quarterbacks who were drafted by dumpster fire organizations: Winston, Goff, Mayfield. The question quickly became whether these guys were actually holding back teams with fast growing talent and competent coaches. Things change quickly in the NFL.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We’ll see on the Jags. Recent #1 quarterbacks who were drafted by dumpster fire organizations: Winston, Goff, Mayfield. The question quickly became whether these guys were actually holding back teams with fast growing talent.

Mayfield had ****ty coaching early but had decent talent around him. Stefanki is decent. Dorsey got them on the right track and Berry has done a nice job.

McVay saved Goff. Snead did a nice job acquiring talent.

Winston's 2015-2019 rosters were not as good as TB12's 2020 roster but I do think he held them back from being a pot'l playoff team.

I think Lawrence is a talent but gotta have a good coach AND surrounded by quality talent to have a chance at a good career.

Look at TB12. People crapped on him in 2013 and 2019 for his sub-par years. He had the coaching...talent wasn't there.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I think Lawrence is a talent but gotta have a good coach AND surrounded by quality talent to have a chance at a good career.

Would you say this about any other position?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Would you say this about any other position?

Depending on the position- at a lesser level. For example a great man-to-man CB would be fine anywhere and his success is less dependent on other players doing their job.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Depending on the position- at a lesser level. For example a great man-to-man CB would be fine anywhere and his success is less dependent on other players doing their job.

I agree but Gilmore was not great in Buffalo - that is why they let him walk. Not often teams let future DPOY walk. Buffalo played a lot of zone (not Gilmore's strength) and I am guessing the Pats coaching helped as well because Gilmore got better every year.

BB jumped on Gilmore in FA and offered him a top of the market deal. BB was confident he could "coach up" Gilmore and he seems to have been right.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree but Gilmore was not great in Buffalo - that is why they let him walk. Not often teams let future DPOY walk. Buffalo played a lot of zone (not Gilmore's strength) and I am guessing the Pats coaching helped as well because Gilmore got better every year.

BB jumped on Gilmore in FA and offered him a top of the market deal. BB was confident he could "coach up" Gilmore and he seems to have been right.

The point is Gilly didn't receive quality coaching or a ton of surrounding talent to establish a successful NFL career. Depite that he was successful in BUF.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

The point is Gilly didn't receive quality coaching or a ton of surrounding talent to establish a successful NFL career. Depite that he was successful in BUF.

I do not think it is that simple. Lots of factors involved. Chung was not great in NE to start but was much better in his second stint. Basically the same coaching. BB said he was better because he moved from Free Safety to Strong Safety - the coaches used him wrong at first.

 

[zydecochris]

Sorry, but you’re really out of your element, RW. Posts like this reinforce why Team Bill must be cured of their delirium.

I know that RW is more than capable of defending his points of view, but he said: "A big part of a QBs success is the quality of coaching he receives, how his development is managed and the talent he is surrounded by. Right now, there is no doubt Mac is in a better position to have a more successful career than Trev but it's early." To tell the truth this seemed to be about as controversial as the sun rising in the east. Are you really suggesting that at this early stage (as RW said explicitly) that Trev on a Jag team that was 1-15 last year coached by a NFL newbie is in a better position early on than Mac on the Patriots coached by BB and Josh with a top offensive line, good RBs, and a plethora of expensive new toys at TE and receiver? Really? We aren't talking about where Trev will be in 10 years, but what his situation will be next year. I think Mac will take time like any rookie and I haven't booked any Superbowl seats, but I don't see how you can argue he is in a worse situation than the Jags this coming year.

 

[zydecochris]

That’s not of great relevance to Trevor Lawrence’s long-term prospects.

Nothing was said about Trevor Lawrence's long term prospects, only his near term situation next year compared to Mac's.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I know that RW is more than capable of defending his points of view, but he said: "A big part of a QBs success is the quality of coaching he receives, how his development is managed and the talent he is surrounded by. Right now, there is no doubt Mac is in a better position to have a more successful career than Trev but it's early." To tell the truth this seemed to be about as controversial as the sun rising in the east. Are you really suggesting that at this early stage (as RW said explicitly) that Trev on a Jag team that was 1-15 last year coached by a NFL newbie is in a better position early on than Mac on the Patriots coached by BB and Josh with a top offensive line, good RBs, and a plethora of expensive new toys at TE and receiver? Really? We aren't talking about where Trev will be in 10 years, but what his situation will be next year. I think Mac will take time like any rookie and I haven't booked any Superbowl seats, but I don't see how you can argue he is in a worse situation than the Jags this coming year.

Nothing was said about Trevor Lawrence's long term prospects, only his near term situation next year compared to Mac's.

This is not that complicated. RW believes that long-term careers are affected by early career development. It’s right there. Take it up with him if you disagree because I don’t think you realize who you’re actually disagreeing with.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I do not think it is that simple. Lots of factors involved. Chung was not great in NE to start but was much better in his second stint. Basically the same coaching. BB said he was better because he moved from Free Safety to Strong Safety - the coaches used him wrong at first.

Chung was a great system fit but was not an elite talent. As you point out we saw what happened to him when used improperly.

Gilly can roll out bed and play a good to great CB.

 

[PScottman]

That’s not of great relevance to Trevor Lawrence’s long-term prospects.

Jeff George, Rick Mirer, JaMarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, David Carr, Tim Couch, Art Schlicter, and even Andrew Luck to some extent disagree. All "cant miss" NFL QBs coming out of the draft and all busts for a myriad of reasons both on and off the field.

There is no sure thing and anyone who states otherwise that isn't a kajillionaire with their oh so obvious talent in predicting the future with absolute certainty is either a blowhard or an internet poster.

An avalanche starts with one single catalytic event. One bad bit of coaching advice screwing up mechanics or decision making. One terrible backup left tackle thrust into a game because of injury causing another one at the QB position. One goldigger or posse of friends ruining a personal life.

The only certainty is uncertainty.

 

[scott99]

Jeff George, Rick Mirer, JaMarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, David Carr, Tim Couch, Art Schlicter, and even Andrew Luck to some extent disagree. All "cant miss" NFL QBs coming out of the draft and all busts for a myriad of reasons both on and off the field.

There is no sure thing and anyone who states otherwise that isn't a kajillionaire with their oh so obvious talent in predicting the future with absolute certainty is either a blowhard or an internet poster.

An avalanche starts with one single catalytic event. One bad bit of coaching advice screwing up mechanics or decision making. One terrible backup left tackle thrust into a game because of injury causing another one at the QB position. One goldigger or posse of friends ruining a personal life.

The only certainty is uncertainty.

I would take Luck off of that list, he was far from a bust. Hell, even Jeff George had some good years.