Reiss: Pats should Thank Niners for Passing on Mac

[Sicilian]

Even if Mac doesn't start for us this year I definitely want to see him getting snaps against first team defenses. Push hiim in the deep end a bit and see how he handles it. Give him the chance to pleasantly surprise us.

Agreed, and I think that's what they'll do early on in camp. Phil Perry brought up an interesting point on his podcast following mini-camp, that the longer training camp goes on, the more you're going to want to give the majority of the practice reps to whoever you project to be your starter. Whoever it is will need all the reps they can to be the best they can be in week one. So I think they'll really push Mac in that first week, to get a sense as early as possible as to whether he has a legitimate shot to be ready for week one, or if they should focus on getting Cam up to speed. If he's still getting a lot of reps after the first week, it's a good sign for his competition.

 

[patfanken]

Something the became apparent to me (after NINE pages of posts) that we haven't mentioned much but could be VERY important to Jones's possible success here. It is pretty clear that his "level of compete" is off the charts. Its trending toward Bradyesque levles. The kid had to be the scout team QB for TWO years while he played behind Tua and Hurts. And in the process made the defense miserable and Saban often pissed. Then he had to stave off the next big thing who everyone thought would walk in and take the job.

Jones has shown that he is NOT afraid to compete for the job. And while it is likely that Bill will start the season with Cam, rest assured that when his cal;led on, Mac will be mentallhy prepared to come in and perfrom.

I'm feeling very good about our QB situation right now. (I know that herestical thinking), but I strongly feel that Cam will be much better this year. Another year in the system, much better talent, and he's healthy make that a likely event. But make no mistake his going to HAVE play much better because he knows he's on a short leash. And this is great. We are going to see a Cam Newton who will have a massive chipm on his shoulder (he also possesses a high level of compete) because of all the negative press he's gotten, as well as the obvious competition Jones represents. And all that is WONDERFUL

Never underestimate the value of REAL competition has in getting the maximum out of players. All these guys are competitors or they wouldn't have gotten to this level to begin with. One thing we know about Bill is that he will play the best player at the position regardless of their draft position or contract. The day be believes that Jones is the best QB to lead the Pats will be the day he comes the starter. The camp can't start soon enough for me. Normally I would wait until they put pads on before I came, but THIS season might warrant a change.

 

[Hyped]

Something the became apparent to me (after NINE pages of posts) that we haven't mentioned much but could be VERY important to Jones's possible success here. It is pretty clear that his "level of compete" is off the charts. Its trending toward Bradyesque levles. The kid had to be the scout team QB for TWO years while he played behind Tua and Hurts. And in the process made the defense miserable and Saban often pissed. Then he had to stave off the next big thing who everyone thought would walk in and take the job.

Jones has shown that he is NOT afraid to compete for the job. And while it is likely that Bill will start the season with Cam, rest assured that when his cal;led on, Mac will be mentallhy prepared to come in and perfrom.

I'm feeling very good about our QB situation right now. (I know that herestical thinking), but I strongly feel that Cam will be much better this year. Another year in the system, much better talent, and he's healthy make that a likely event. But make no mistake his going to HAVE play much better because he knows he's on a short leash. And this is great. We are going to see a Cam Newton who will have a massive chipm on his shoulder (he also possesses a high level of compete) because of all the negative press he's gotten, as well as the obvious competition Jones represents. And all that is WONDERFUL

Never underestimate the value of REAL competition has in getting the maximum out of players. All these guys are competitors or they wouldn't have gotten to this level to begin with. One thing we know about Bill is that he will play the best player at the position regardless of their draft position or contract. The day be believes that Jones is the best QB to lead the Pats will be the day he comes the starter. The camp can't start soon enough for me. Normally I would wait until they put pads on before I came, but THIS season might warrant a change.

Yup, this is where I am at...

Mac is gonna have to unseat Cam...and fend off Stidham. Mac was impressive in college....but I just don't see anyone, but Cam starting up to week 9 when we play @ Carolina. Beyond that...maybe....

Last year, we didn't even put Stidham out there when the season was "lost"...so I am not sure...

But yeah...we have competition! And QB play will be better this year one way or another...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Something the became apparent to me (after NINE pages of posts) that we haven't mentioned much but could be VERY important to Jones's possible success here. It is pretty clear that his "level of compete" is off the charts. Its trending toward Bradyesque levles. The kid had to be the scout team QB for TWO years while he played behind Tua and Hurts. And in the process made the defense miserable and Saban often pissed. Then he had to stave off the next big thing who everyone thought would walk in and take the job.

Jones has shown that he is NOT afraid to compete for the job. And while it is likely that Bill will start the season with Cam, rest assured that when his cal;led on, Mac will be mentallhy prepared to come in and perfrom.

Lol...this is has zero basis in reality. The guy is really competitive, as you'd expect from a pro athlete. He scout teamed with a Dream Team college program with the understanding his number would be called at some point. That's how college athletics works with powerhouse programs where you typically see guys start a year or two before going pro.

Bradyesque? That's ridiculous; I'm not drawing any conclusions about his competitiveness, chip on his shoulder, self-initiative, resourcefulnes, or whatever. Heck, for all I know Mac Jones will one day prove to be way more of pyschotic winner than Tom Brady. But for right now, this is some absurd levels of fluff and fan fiction, and if you want to compare the college/early pro days of Brady and Jones, there's almost nothing similar about their situations.

 

[borg]

if you want to compare the college/early pro days of Brady and Jones, there's almost nothing similar about their situations.

So true.....
Mac won the Bama starters job outright and didn't have split starts with a baseball player

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

So true.....
Mac won the Bama starters job outright and didn't have split starts with a baseball player

Nice white dress you have there.

 

[moosekill]

So true.....
Mac won the Bama starters job outright and didn't have split starts with a baseball player

Yes, this is exactly what happened, not quite sure how you can spin that differently Ice?

I am excited about Mac and think he has a good chance on beating out the man who was the worst qb in the league last year. If Cam comes in and is an average qb this year, Mac will have a much much harder time beating him out.

I still think if Mac beats out Cam in training camp, Cam will be gone.

 

[scott99]

Lol...this is has zero basis in reality. The guy is really competitive, as you'd expect from a pro athlete. He scout teamed with a Dream Team college program with the understanding his number would be called at some point. That's how college athletics works with powerhouse programs where you typically see guys start a year or two before going pro.

Bradyesque? That's ridiculous; I'm not drawing any conclusions about his competitiveness, chip on his shoulder, self-initiative, resourcefulnes, or whatever. Heck, for all I know Mac Jones will one day prove to be way more of pyschotic winner than Tom Brady. But for right now, this is some absurd levels of fluff and fan fiction, and if you want to compare the college/early pro days of Brady and Jones, there's almost nothing similar about their situations.

 

[scott99]

The picture I posted was from Alabama’s 4th quarter program that runs prior to the start of the season. This was prior to the start of the 2020 season. He refused to come off of the field, and continued the drills until they were over.

Those who can’t see some comparisons to Brady’s situation at Michigan, just don’t know the story. Just like Brady, Jones had to wait his turn, prove detractors wrong when he got his chance, fight off a younger, supposedly more talented QB to win the starting job in 2020. Most people thought Bryce Young would win the starting job over Jones in 2020. Though Jones was a 1st round pick, A LOT of people are still doubting him. He has a chip on his shoulder, a similar will to win to Brady’s, just a drive and determination to play great and win. He also is extremely confident. Not saying the other 4 QBs in the 1st round don’t have the same kind of personalities, just saying Jones has a similar story to Brady coming out of college, and a similar drive to win.

 

[Captain Cliche]

Someone in an earlier post said either Mac or Stidham needs to step up (too lazy to go back and look it up).
A couple grains on Stidham:

1. Curran in a podcast about Stidham in OTA's; Has an arm that "Would be voted most likely to succeed."
I agree. I watched a little film of OTA's and thought, "Man, who's #4? He can make all the throws...accuracy, velocity, tight spiral." He drops the ball and has a little bit of a wind up when he throws, but he looks good out there.

2. Heard in another podcast that Stidham looks "a little off" in Minicamp. Not making the throws per se, but a little lost with the scheme (again, too lazy to look these up).

This would explain a lot to me...why he never beat out Cam. Unfortunately, I worry he may not make it here. He's had 2 years. The system just may be too complicated for him, or he can't process the mental portion quick enough.
His QB coach said he had the farthest to go as far as switching to a pro system. Kinda sounds like making excuses to me. He's had 2 years. How much time does he need? It's all he has to do. Would we be employed if we hadn't learned our job after 2 years (I know, It's not the same thing).

It may also be a confidence thing. He certainly seems to pee his Depends during live action...so far.

Mac, by comparison, seems to float his passes in. Quick release, right on the money...super accurate. I find myself thinking "put a little mustard on it". I also noted he waits for the receiver to complete his route before throwing. They all do. I am assuming that's part of the process.
Watching film analysis of him, the commentator noted how he was great at anticipating the receiver's break. This bodes well for us.

This may be the fan in me, but what I saw in OTA"s was an "I got this." attitude. It all appeared to be child's play for him. Making all the throws, dropping it right in the receivers hands, quick release, no big deal.
I'm super jacked to watch his Patriot career unfold. I fully hope and believe he will be the next Tom Brady (no jinx). I can say that, I'm a fan and don't know much about football.

All the pieces are there:
1. Mental Aspect. Dude has a masters degree. They seem to be fast tracking him...looks like they think he can handle it (up until he threw 3 picks!!!)
2. Confidence: Guy has already performed on the highest level in the highest profile game at the previous level. Like I said before, an "I got this." attitude.
3. Attitude. Saying he will do whatever it takes and whatever they ask of him. Buckling down after his DUI. Avoiding socializing and social media to study film and hone his game.
4. Competitiveness. Refused to throw picks on practice squad. Had to deal with temper issues during competition.
He may not have the "picked at 199" chip, but he played as a backup for 2 years and made the most of his opportunity.

San Fran screwed the pooch. They were like the dog chasing the minivan. Now what?
Kinda got the cart before the horse. They mortgaged their future to get to 3 then made their decision?
Make a big splash!!! They say it was Lance all along. I don't want to believe that. I would rather think the Pats made out...bigtime, at their expense.

 

[Wozzy]

Interesting, when it comes to Elway you bring up the quality of opponents and his own teams. When it comes to Jackson it's all on him. That's very common around here unfortunately. It's a team game up until you don't like the player - Jackson.

I liked Elway, according to who? I disliked him about as much as Manning, thought he was a “golly gee” phony. I hated Marino, actually met him and he was a bigger douche in person than I imagined… doesn’t change the fact both guys were good accurate passers. “Like” has nothing to do with it, I disliked Jackson as a prospect because he was inaccurate, as of yet he hasn’t improved like Josh Allen where I have to admit I could be wrong.

Jackson needs to play better but if actually watched the games you'd see his team sh¡t the bed.

Go check Lamar Jackson's playoff stats, then tell me how he wasn't the reason they lost.

4 games, 1-3 record, 55% passing, 3 TD's/5 INT's, 68 QB Rating, 5 Fumbles...

Oh yeah, that's right... he rushed for some yards and you think that's what makes a QB great... see Cam for an example.

DVOA is analytics garbage, total waste of time that explains why bad defenses are good and great defenses are bad… but suddenly this conversation makes a lot more sense.

 

[zydecochris]

Lol...this is has zero basis in reality. The guy is really competitive, as you'd expect from a pro athlete. He scout teamed with a Dream Team college program with the understanding his number would be called at some point. That's how college athletics works with powerhouse programs where you typically see guys start a year or two before going pro.

I won't comment on the other points, but I would respectfully argue that the part bolded above is simply not true at Alabama. Saban is not that much different than BB when it comes to disregarding convention or pedigree when it comes to who starts.

So: everyone assumed that Saban's highest ranked recruit ever (Bryce Young, #5 overall and top rated QB) would beat out Mac Jones last year, and most (almost everyone) assumed he would transfer. Mac had different ideas.

Is it because everyone "knows their number will be called at some point" at Alabama? I would like to remind everyone of the 2016 season. The presumed Alabama starting QB was (before Bryce Young) Saban's previously highest ranked QB recruit, Blake Barnett ranked #1 QB-PP and #14 overall in his second season, he was the heir apparent and showed great flashes of talent that excited everyone.

.....Except, on the practice field, there was this almost unknown and lightly regarded (at the time) true freshman, ranked number 278 on one service and not even listed on ESPN's top 300 who kept kicking the butt of the Alabama defense. Some guy named Jalen Hurts, who as a true freshman managed to beat out the heir apparent in the second game. And, that turned out pretty well for Alabama (and then Oklahoma after Tua beat Jalen out) and now he is starting at QB for the Eagles. So the idea that Mac was handed the starting job at Alabama last year is simply not the way that Saban or Alabama operates.

 

[Hyped]

Lol...this is has zero basis in reality. The guy is really competitive, as you'd expect from a pro athlete. He scout teamed with a Dream Team college program with the understanding his number would be called at some point. That's how college athletics works with powerhouse programs where you typically see guys start a year or two before going pro.

Bradyesque? That's ridiculous; I'm not drawing any conclusions about his competitiveness, chip on his shoulder, self-initiative, resourcefulnes, or whatever. Heck, for all I know Mac Jones will one day prove to be way more of pyschotic winner than Tom Brady. But for right now, this is some absurd levels of fluff and fan fiction, and if you want to compare the college/early pro days of Brady and Jones, there's almost nothing similar about their situations.

A few comments:

- It is J-U-L-Y....the dog days of the off-season.... let people get excited about Michael McCorkle Jones' future....

- Mac is actually more polished and pro-ready than Brady was in 2000.

- As for competitiveness...per Jeff Howe, this kid has it.

- That being said, there will never be another Brady.

 

[TheRainMaker]

They mortgaged their future to get to 3 then made their decision?

I’m looking forward to seeing them crash and burn. Shanahan is very arrogant who hasn’t accomplished much as a HC.

They say it was Lance all along. I don't want to believe that.

It was Mac Jones until they watched Lance work out again. Their first mistake was making the trade so early. Too much time passed between the trade and the draft. In fact, people close to them such as Chris Simms and Shannon Sharpe knew that it was originally Mac Jones. They changed their minds and took the more athletically gifted quarterback because they are feeling the pressure from not taking Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson in the 2017 draft.

 

[scott99]

This is why my biggest concern is QB. Either Jones or Stidham has to step up.

I’d be shocked if Stidham has anything to do with the Patriot’s success going forward. If Jones has a good camp/exhibition games performances, Stidham will be traded/cut.

 

[50-yard-line]

Yes, I agree. Lance better be pretty good right out of the gate, or Lynch is kaput. If Lance has a slow start (or no start) and Mac lights it up then watch out. Of course this is all speculation on my part, but I loved what I saw of Mac, even before the draft (look it up). I had him rated as the number two QB after Wilson, who knows. There are also injuries to consider; rookie QBs don't know how to protect themselves and try to make too much out of broken plays.

I expect a great year for the Patriots. I think that they are just one player (a number one WR) away from a championship.

After Wilson or after Lawrence?

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

After Wilson or after Lawrence?

Yes, I think Mac will have a better career than Trevor Lawrence. Betcha a nickle...

 

[1960Pats]

I’d be shocked if Stidham has anything to do with the Patriot’s success going forward. If Jones has a good camp/exhibition games performances, Stidham will be traded/cut.

Then it all hinges on Jones.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes, I think Mac will have a better career than Trevor Lawrence. Betcha a nickle...

A big part of a QBs success is the quality of coaching he receives, how his development is managed and the talent he is surrounded by.

Right now, there is no doubt Mac is in a better position to have a more successful career than Trev but it's early..

 

[50-yard-line]

Yes, I think Mac will have a better career than Trevor Lawrence. Betcha a nickle...

Interesting. I was just surprised to see someone putting Wilson above Lawrence.