PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

PP's DVR player evaluation - Preseason Game 1


Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

You can put me into the yes column.
I respectfully - but completely - disagree.

I sense you have a touch of jet fans delusion sydrome. Your expectations require that EVERY player play at a pro bowl level. You have no tolerance for players who do their jobs in an unspectacular manner.
What's wrong with expecting the FO to acquire the best possible players at each position? Keeping each of them for the long term is another matter.

To date, I am confident that in a 3-4 OLB position that Pierre Woods can give us a solid edge setter and someone who will garner 4-6 sacks, along with the appropriate number of pressures. In other words, what Mike Vrabel gave us last season.
And what Mike Vrabel gave us last season stunk.

The Pats defensive system, to date, hasn't relied on INDIVIDUALS creating great sack totals, despite the fact that until last season, as a TEAM, they had been amongst the leaders in sacks for several seasons. Vrabel's 12 in 2007 was one of the few (if any) examples of an INDIVIDUAL player getting double digit sacks.
2007's high sack totals were partly the result of the large # of pass attempts by the oppostition. 2008's totals demanded that changes - personnel changes, as in football-playing INDIVIDUALs - be made.

Yet somehow some fans get pissed because he don't have a Shawn Merriman type sack artist. Don't need one.
We don't need one?!? What's wrong with having a DeMarcus Ware in our front 7? (I despise Merrimoid, so I won't use him as an example.) I seem to recall Bill doing quite well with Lawrence Taylor when he was DC of the NYG.

We just need to be good enough to create the defensive pressure needed to be a consistent defense.
And that pressure is created by having talented INDIVIDUALs at those positions.

We don't need Boddin to be an elite CB in the league. Just better than Delta ONeal or Ellis Hobbs....and if he does become an elite CB, so much the better.
We need Leigh Bodden to perform closer to Ty Law than to Deltha O'Neal. Just being a little better than O'Neal won't cut the mustard.

People sometimes forget BB's most consistent urging to his team, "Just DO YOUR JOB!" Personally I think he's happy with Woods' progress to date. I'm sorry that you are not. But you'll have to pardon me, if....right now....I go with Bill's view.

I don't understand why some of us continue to settle for the personification of mediocrity that is Pierre "I allowed a scatback to take a fumble from underneath me in the Super Bowl" Woods.
 
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

I don't understand why some of us continue to settle for the personification of mediocrity that is Pierre "I allowed a scatback to take a fumble from underneath me in the Super Bowl" Woods.

Some day you'll wake up and realize this isn't Madden. And then you'll realize that we won a Super Bowl with David Patten, Tom Ashworth, Brandon Gorin, and Tebucky Jones playing as starters.
 
Last edited:
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

I also think you minimize Alexander's value to the STs. BB has put a sizable commitment in improving the production he got last season, bringing in FAs, coaches, and drafting player who would benefit STs. If you want to make an analogy, Alexander could be this team's Larry Izzo, only someone who has more value as a LB.
Which Izzo? The legit all-pro from 2001-04, or the has-been from 05-08?
As far as having more value as a LB, that may be true, but barely. And that's still not saying much.


BTW, Alexander's value as a LB is in coverage (inside and out),
Have you already forgotten the AFCC vs. the Dolts? The FO should've been looking for his replacement the following morning.

and Guyton Bruschi, and Mayo should be enough for the regular ILB Defense. So we do agree on that.

I would be much, much more comfortable with Mayo, Guyton, Bruschi (or rather his eventual replacement next year) & a healthy Paris Lenon, who BTW was an excellent STer before he became a full-time starter; so he has Effin Alexander beaten both ways. He just needs to get outta the tub.
 
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

Some day you'll wake up and realize this isn't Madden. And then you'll realize that we won a Super Bowl with Antowain Smith, David Patten, Tom Ashworth, Brandon Gorin, and Tebucky Jones playing as starters.

All second and third stringers at best. Contributors. We're asking Woods to be a starter. A consistent solid producer...the WHOLE season.

Let me add that with regards to equivalency, Woods is no where near the player Antowain or Patten were.
 
Last edited:
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

All second and third stringers at best. Contributors. We're asking Woods to be a starter. A consistent solid producer...the WHOLE season.

Let me add that with regards to equivalency, Woods is no where near the player Antowain or Patten were.

Uh, the wooshing sound was the point flying right over your head.

Those are all JAG-type players. Most overperformed in 2001. The Patriots still managed to win despite not having elite talent at every position. That is to say, the Patriots have had far more questionable players starting than they will this year. So the histrionics are not warranted. Not every team can have a Demarcus Ware lining up to rush the passer. Incidentally, that's why there's only one Demarcus Ware in the league.
 
Last edited:
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

Uh, the wooshing sound was the point flying right over your head.

Those are all JAG-type players. Most overperformed in 2001. The Patriots still managed to win despite not having elite talent at every position. That is to say, the Patriots have had far more questionable players starting than they will this year. So the histrionics are not warranted. Not every team can have a Demarcus Ware lining up to rush the passer. Incidentally, that's why there's only one Demarcus Ware in the league.

I got your point. But what I'm saying, in Woods you a Jag playing in a starters role. On top of that....he's a mediocre JAG. I'm not saying we need to replace him with the second coming of Derrick Thomas. It's a spot on the roster that could use some upgrading.
 
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

I got your point. But what I'm saying, in Woods you a Jag playing in a starters role. On top of that....he's a mediocre JAG. I'm not saying we need to replace him with the second coming of Derrick Thomas. It's a spot on the roster that could use some upgrading.

And what would you call Gorin and Ashworth?

Calling him a mediocre JAG is premature, as there's not enough basis to make any claims yet as to how effective he'll be.

I'm pretty sure every team in the NFL has a roster spot they'd like to upgrade.
 
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

And what would you call Gorin and Ashworth?

Calling him a mediocre JAG is premature, as there's not enough basis to make any claims yet as to how effective he'll be.

I'm pretty sure every team in the NFL has a roster spot they'd like to upgrade.

EXACTLY!! So I nominate that as our official "let's upgrade" spot.

Gorin and Ashworth? I'd call them "upgraded".
 
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

You are STILL missing Jack's point. EVERY team that has won the superbowl has had more JAGS starting in the top 22 than "stars". First of all you seem to reject fact that the last player on an NFL roster is an unbelieveably good football player. From our couches we summarily dismiss some amazing athletes as bums and JAGS without any idea of what these guys are capapble of, compared to us.

Back when NFL rosters were 45, I was one of those JAGS. A damned fine football player....BUT not quite good ENOUGH to make it. That was close to 40 years ago, and the coaching and training of those athletes have evolved to the point, the competition is even greater, the players bigger faster, and quite frankly better prepared. I have a fair idea of what these so called JAGs go through, DESPITE knowing their chances of catching on are slim. If you think for JUST A SECOND about the competition that they've had to overcome just to get to THIS point, you might just have a better appreciation for what they are doing.

The other thing we often forget is that the 'other' guy is on "scholarship" too. And every player isn't going to make the play ALL the time. There isn't a true all pro DLman who HASN'T been pancaked....several times. Tom Brady has played horrendous games. Yet we continue to sit at our keyboards and JUDGE these players, as if we could go out and show them how to do it, when they do it badly. :rolleyes:

Sorry, I just realized I was pontificating, and making these judgements is what makes being a fan fun. So on that basis...carry on...but try and keep in the back of your mind what I said. btw, Let me get back on point

Go look at ANY NFL starting line up from last year and/or projected starting line up from this year and you will again find them littered these so called JAGS often more of them than the so called "stars"...and that just covers 22 players. By definition after THAT the rest of your 53 man roster is made up of JAGS. And those JAGS are going to play significant minutes during the season. What some of us fail to realize is that the Pats have FEWER of these players than most of the rest of the league, with only the Steelers and Chargers even coming close.

Yes it a fine GOAL to upgrade at every position, every year. But it isn't realistic in the cap era. Its time we recognize that 85-90% of the players in this league are all at the same talent level. Maybe 5-10 players on every team exceed that mean. The great teams have one or two more than the bad teams, but thats not what makes them good or bad. Its the coaching, systems, organizations, and luck that determine who ultimately wins the big game. That's what makes football so much fun to watch. The so called best team in the league, can be beaten on ANY given Sunday, even by the "worst" team.

IF Pierre Woods is a JAG, then the Pats have won superbowls with more "Pierre Woods" types playing for them than they will have on THIS team. And it will take ME more than a few plays in the first preseason game to make the determination that he actually IS a JAG. I think he'll be better than that.
 
Last edited:
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

Belichick evaluated the team and run-stopping OLB wasn't on his defensive upgrade list. Belichick's list apparently included the items below.

DEFENSIVE LINE
re-sign a solid backup (Wright)
potential future contributers or starters (Brace, Pryor)

LINEBACKERS
2010 replacement for Bruschi (drafted McKenzie; signed Lenon for this year after injury)
pass-rush improvement and 4-3/3-4 flexibility (Banta-Cain and Burgess)
tender Woods as 2009 transition player if Crable isn't ready

CORNERS
2009 starter (Bodden)
2009 veteran who can start anywhere or be a mentor and backup (Springs)
top 2010 contributer (Butler)

SAFETIES
re-sign or acquire starter (Sanders)
2009 contributer and special team ace, future starter (Chung)
2009 special team help and potential contributer at safety (McGowan and/or Williams)

SPECIAL TEAMS
Upgrades needed (Chung, Banta-Cain, McGowan, Lenon)

EXACTLY!! So I nominate that as our official "let's upgrade" spot.

Gorin and Ashworth? I'd call them "upgraded".
 
Last edited:
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

IF Pierre Woods is a JAG, then the Pats have won superbowls with more "Pierre Woods" types playing for them than they will have on THIS team. And it will take ME more than a few plays in the first preseason game to make the determination that he actually IS a JAG. I think he'll be better than that.
Author! Author!
applaus.gif
 
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

I don't have much else to add. We'll wait an see how things play out with Lawre... I mean Pierre Woods.:snob:
 
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

For depth at a position that can get affected by injury very quickly, he has value.

If he could catch, block and get 4.4 ypc.....he'd be a starter.

But he's a tough little runner with decent instincts. No more....no less.

A nice player.

Agreed, Law Firm is a nice player for what he is --- your 3rd or 4th RB when you still need a credible threat of a running game after a team has had a couple of injuries. He is reasonably reliable, learns quickly and is cheap. 2 out of 3 is not bad for a bubble player, all 3 is gravy.
 
Re: PP's DVR player evaluation- Pre-Season game 1

You are STILL missing Jack's point. EVERY team that has won the superbowl has had more JAGS starting in the top 22 than "stars". First of all you seem to reject fact that the last player on an NFL roster is an unbelieveably good football player. From our couches we summarily dismiss some amazing athletes as bums and JAGS without any idea of what these guys are capapble of, compared to us.

Back when NFL rosters were 45, I was one of those JAGS. A damned fine football player....BUT not quite good ENOUGH to make it. That was close to 40 years ago, and the coaching and training of those athletes have evolved to the point, the competition is even greater, the players bigger faster, and quite frankly better prepared. I have a fair idea of what these so called JAGs go through, DESPITE knowing their chances of catching on are slim. If you think for JUST A SECOND about the competition that they've had to overcome just to get to THIS point, you might just have a better appreciation for what they are doing.

The other thing we often forget is that the 'other' guy is on "scholarship" too. And every player isn't going to make the play ALL the time. There isn't a true all pro DLman who HASN'T been pancaked....several times. Tom Brady has played horrendous games. Yet we continue to sit at our keyboards and JUDGE these players, as if we could go out and show them how to do it, when they do it badly. :rolleyes:

Sorry, I just realized I was pontificating, and making these judgements is what makes being a fan fun. So on that basis...carry on...but try and keep in the back of your mind what I said. btw, Let me get back on point

Go look at ANY NFL starting line up from last year and/or projected starting line up from this year and you will again find them littered these so called JAGS often more of them than the so called "stars"...and that just covers 22 players. By definition after THAT the rest of your 53 man roster is made up of JAGS. And those JAGS are going to play significant minutes during the season. What some of us fail to realize is that the Pats have FEWER of these players than most of the rest of the league, with only the Steelers and Chargers even coming close.

Yes it a fine GOAL to upgrade at every position, every year. But it isn't realistic in the cap era. Its time we recognize that 85-90% of the players in this league are all at the same talent level. Maybe 5-10 players on every team exceed that mean. The great teams have one or two more than the bad teams, but thats not what makes them good or bad. Its the coaching, systems, organizations, and luck that determine who ultimately wins the big game. That's what makes football so much fun to watch. The so called best team in the league, can be beaten on ANY given Sunday, even by the "worst" team.

IF Pierre Woods is a JAG, then the Pats have won superbowls with more "Pierre Woods" types playing for them than they will have on THIS team. And it will take ME more than a few plays in the first preseason game to make the determination that he actually IS a JAG. I think he'll be better than that.

Welll said, Ken
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Friday Patriots Notebook 4/26: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Patriots QB Drake Maye Conference Call
Patriots Now Have to Get to Work After Taking Maye
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf and Jerod Mayo After Patriots Take Drake Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/25: News and Notes
Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
Back
Top