Peter King's mid-season All-Pro team....

[Deus Irae]

Re: Peter King's mid-season All-Pro team.....

Funny, in the couple of months I've been here I've heard this reference from about 13 different Patriots fans in regards to Bill Bellicheat: "The players play the game".

Look, if you can't admit that if Calvin Johnson and Reggie Wayne switched teams, Calvin Johnson would be on this All Pro list, then that's a you problem.

I can't imagine what Peyton Manning would do with a WR with the athletic ability of Calvin Johnson.

Let's try this again, since you can't seem to wrap your brain around the obvious:

Marvin Harrison entered the league in 1996. That's before Manning was playing in the NFL.

AS A ROOKIE, AND WITHOUT PEYTON MANNING AS QB, Marvin Harrison had 64 catches for 836 yards.

In his second season, AGAIN WITHOUT PEYTON MANNING, Marvin Harrison had 73 catches for 866 yards.

Both of those seasons were with Harbaugh at the quarterback position.

In Manning's rookie season, Harrison's numbers DROPPED to 59 catches and 776 yards. It wasn't until Manning's second season, with Harrison already an established player and entering his prime, that the two clicked in the passing game and things took off.

Marvin Harrison was not made by Manning.

 

[4xMVP]

Re: Peter King's mid-season All-Pro team.....

Let's try this again, since you can't seem to wrap your brain around the obvious:

Marvin Harrison entered the league in 1996. That's before Manning was playing in the NFL.

AS A ROOKIE, AND WITHOUT PEYTON MANNING AS QB, Marvin Harrison had 64 catches for 836 yards.

In his second season, AGAIN WITHOUT PEYTON MANNING, Marvin Harrison had 73 catches for 866 yards.

Both of those seasons were with Harbaugh at the quarterback position.

In Manning's rookie season, Harrison's numbers DROPPED to 59 catches and 776 yards. It wasn't until Manning's second season, with Harrison already an established player and entering his prime, that the two clicked in the passing game and things took off.

Marvin Harrison was not made by Manning.

I'm very aware that Marvin did not have Manning his first two years. Still doesn't change the fact that Marvin is not a physical specimen in terms of athletic ability. He was the king of catch and fall down/run out of bounds.

Basically, Manning's really never had a big play threat....just a bunch of finesse route runners with good hands.

 

[Lampshade]

Re: Peter King's mid-season All-Pro team.....

I'm very aware that Marvin did not have Manning his first two years. Still doesn't change the fact that Marvin is not a physical specimen in terms of athletic ability. He was the king of catch and fall down/run out of bounds.

Basically, Manning's really never had a big play threat....just a bunch of finesse route runners with good hands.

Are you kidding with this? Poor Peyton being lumbered with one of the best two or three WRs of all-time.

 

[4xMVP]

Re: Peter King's mid-season All-Pro team.....

Are you kidding with this? Poor Peyton being lumbered with one of the best two or three WRs of all-time.

According to what, stats?

If that's the case, Peyton Manning is the undisputed GOAT! :singing:

 

[Yfz01]

I think it is pretty obvious that both Manning and Brady make WR's better. I would give the edge to Manning as I don't believe he has ever had a WR of similar calibur to Randy Moss. I do think Manning has had better tandoms with Wayne, Clark, and Harrison. Look at Garcon and Collie and how well they are doing this year.

This year, does anyone believe Manning would have worse stats then Brady if he was playing for the Patriots? I don't. I've seen Brady miss plenty of easy throws that Manning rarely misses. In 07' this would have been a closer comparison, in my eyes.

 

[glm]

Re: Peter King's mid-season All-Pro team.....

I think we've all come to the conclusion that Manning makes his WR's better. I'm not saying his WR's didn't have any talent, all I'm saying is it's pretty naive on your part to assume that Manning is the product of his weapons, when in fact, it's the other way around.

Also, didn't Troy Brown have 100 catches 3-straight years? Stop selling your players short.

He's only had 100 catch season.

It's awesome how you try to make an argument and your facts aren't even right.

 

[Lampshade]

I think it is pretty obvious that both Manning and Brady make WR's better. I would give the edge to Manning as I don't believe he has ever had a WR of similar calibur to Randy Moss. I do think Manning has had better tandoms with Wayne, Clark, and Harrison. Look at Garcon and Collie and how well they are doing this year.

This year, does anyone believe Manning would have worse stats then Brady if he was playing for the Patriots? I don't. I've seen Brady miss plenty of easy throws that Manning rarely misses. In 07' this would have been a closer comparison, in my eyes.

Manning was missing plenty of throws when coming back from his knee injury. Probably not the best time frame to judge either QB by.

I'm still struggling to get my head around how quickly Marvin Harrison has been made into just some receiver. Are people forgetting how silly he routinely made corners look?

 

[BSR]

I think it is pretty obvious that both Manning and Brady make WR's better. I would give the edge to Manning as I don't believe he has ever had a WR of similar calibur to Randy Moss. I do think Manning has had better tandoms with Wayne, Clark, and Harrison. Look at Garcon and Collie and how well they are doing this year.

This year, does anyone believe Manning would have worse stats then Brady if he was playing for the Patriots? I don't. I've seen Brady miss plenty of easy throws that Manning rarely misses. In 07' this would have been a closer comparison, in my eyes.

Please take the following receivers and rank them according to receiving talent:

Randy Moss
Wes Welker
Dieon Branch
David Patten
Troy Brown
David Givens
Daniel Graham
Ben Watson
Reche Caldwell
Jabar Gaffney
Donte Stallworth
Marvin Harrison
Reggie Wayne
Dallas Clark
Anthony Gonzalez
Brandon Stokley

 

[patriots pam]

Manning was missing plenty of throws when coming back from his knee injury. Probably not the best time frame to judge either QB by.

I'm still struggling to get my head around how quickly Marvin Harrison has been made into just some receiver. Are people forgetting how silly he routinely made corners look?

Just Colts trolls. They always seem more than willing to throw any of their team's other [quality] players under the bus in order to support Peyton. Hmmm...I wonder where they get that from?

 

[BSR]

Re: Peter King's mid-season All-Pro team.....

I'm very aware that Marvin did not have Manning his first two years. Still doesn't change the fact that Marvin is not a physical specimen in terms of athletic ability. He was the king of catch and fall down/run out of bounds.

Basically, Manning's really never had a big play threat....just a bunch of finesse route runners with good hands.

I'm sure Joe Montana used to say the same thing. Why do I have this finesse route runner with good hands when I could have big play threat?

 

[4xMVP]

Re: Peter King's mid-season All-Pro team.....

He's only had 100 catch season.

It's awesome how you try to make an argument and your facts aren't even right.

83/101/97

so sorry.....

 

[4xMVP]

Re: Peter King's mid-season All-Pro team.....

I'm sure Joe Montana used to say the same thing. Why do I have this finesse route runner with good hands when I could have big play threat?

After watching Peyton for 12 years, Joe Montana is highly overrated.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

Any reason you never addressed the fact throughout their careers, Brady has better numbers both indoors AND outdoors, and that the reason Manning's numbers are higher are because he's played a far higher percentage of games indoors (where the conditions for throwing are better)?

 

[Synovia]

Any reason you never addressed the fact throughout their careers, Brady has better numbers both indoors AND outdoors, and that the reason Manning's numbers are higher are because he's played a far higher percentage of games indoors (where the conditions for throwing are better)?

Because they're not facts?

 

[BSR]

Because they're not facts?

See last post of page 13.

 

[Synovia]

See last post of page 13.

And did you adjust those for quality of defense played?

 

[BSR]

And did you adjust those for quality of defense played?

I didn't do anything since I didn't compile the numbers. How do defensive adjustments factor into a split of indoor and outside stats?

 

[Synovia]

I didn't do anything since I didn't compile the numbers. How do defensive adjustments factor into a split of indoor and outside stats?

Because if you don't do them, you're assuming they played the same sorts of teams. They haven't.

Quality of opponent is a much bigger factoWr than Indoor/Outdoor.

That, and the fact that the numbers aren't actually right.

 

[BSR]

Because if you don't do them, you're assuming they played the same sorts of teams. They haven't.

Quality of opponent is a much bigger factoWr than Indoor/Outdoor.

This is irrelevant as to whether his statement was factual or not. If you want to argue that there are better ways to measure their performance well then that is a different argument.

That, and the fact that the numbers aren't actually right.

Is that a fact? What makes you assume that they aren't? What are the right numbers?

 

[Lampshade]

Is that a fact? What makes you assume that they aren't? What are the right numbers?

He's right. I had three 1s in the wrong column. I did Brady 2 disservices, and 1 to Peyton. I blame ESPN.

Don't know why I can't edit the previous post, so here are the correct numbers:


Indoor stats:

Manning: 2121 of 3227 (65% comp), 25803 yards, 208 TDs, 83 INTs, 100.94 passer rating

Brady: 200 of 296 (67% comp), 2477 yards, 22 TDs, 9 INTs, 105.363 passer rating


Outdoor stats:

Manning: 1939 of 3045 (63% comp), 22370 yards, 141 TDs, 87 INTS, 89.289 passer rating

Brady: 2305 of 3667 (62% comp), 26333 yards, 191 TDs, 82 INTs, 92.430 passer rating.