Pats get CB Aqib Talib from the Bucs !!

[Easywolf32]

GOOD JOB! On picking up Talib, he's usually hot at the start of the season, if he can be molded in the patriots way he could be VERY valuable. Again, congrats to the Pats for picking him up.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Love the trade but unless Belichick stops his BS policy of playing off and rushing four men 90%+ of the time, then all he just got you was another fan whipping boy for you to vent your frustrations out on.

 

[Marqui]

Love the trade but unless Belichick stops his BS policy of playing off and rushing four men 90%+ of the time, then all he just got you was another fan whipping boy for you to vent your frustrations out on.

Yea, what a waste it would be to have this guy playing in soft zone/soft cover 2.

 

[Kontradiction]

Here is my idea of learning the playbook in 2 seconds if you are in the Pats secondary......

SIMPLY DON'T ALLOW 10 YARD CUSHIONS ON MAN TO MAN AND TURN YOUR DAMN HEAD FOR THE BALL!!

I'll say it right now with authority........That whether or now Aqib works out there is one definite thing already......Aqib will be the most physical presence in the secondary that was missing since Rodney left,the guy knows how to lay the blow.

The playbook is a little more complicated then "HAY TURN UR HED".

 

[Kontradiction]

Love the trade but unless Belichick stops his BS policy of playing off and rushing four men 90%+ of the time, then all he just got you was another fan whipping boy for you to vent your frustrations out on.

It's hard to blitz when your secondary is getting consistently lit up. If Talib comes on strong and Dennard keeps improving, it could free up the defense to get more aggressive with the same A-Gap and overload blitzes that we saw last week.

 

[mgteich]

If Cole is healthy, it is not clear that we have ready to have him as our nickel. I'd be fine with that, but we have no reason to believe that Belichick now consider him our 5th best defensive back to add to Talib, McCourty, Wilson and Dennard. My guess is that Chung and/or Gregory as still higher regarded as safeties than Cole at corner.

Obviously, the biggest factor in these decisions is the health of Cole, Gregory, Chung and Arrington.

You're forgetting about Cole, who looked a lot better than Arrington.

 

[JMC00]

And if it fails, we lost a 4th rounder. Considering how desperate we are for a starting caliber DB, it's very well worth the risk.

Here are the 4th round picks the Pats have made since Bill took over

2000 Greg Randall
2001 Kenyatta Jones & Jabari Holloway
2002 Rohan Davey & Jarvis Green
2003 Asante Samuel & Dan Klecko
2004 Dexter Reid & Cedric Cobbs
2005 James Sanders
2006 Gostkoswki & Garrett Mills
2007 Kareem Brown
2008 Jonathan Wilhite
2009 Rich Ohrnberger
2010 Aaron Hernandez
2011 No Pick
2012 No Pick

31% on picks in the 4th round. Green, Samuel, Sanders, Gostkoswki and Hernandez. And only two of them are still with the team.

So really there was a 70/30 chance that pick wouldn't have panned out.

 

[Kontradiction]

If Cole is healthy, it is not clear that we have ready to have him as our nickel. I'd be fine with that, but we have no reason to believe that Belichick now consider him our 5th best defensive back to add to Talib, McCourty, Wilson and Dennard. My guess is that Chung and/or Gregory as still higher regarded as safeties than Cole at corner.

Obviously, the biggest factor in these decisions is the health of Cole, Gregory, Chung and Arrington.

The front seven is stuffing the run better than any recent Patriots team has done. Chung has been AWFUL in coverage this year. Let the front seven handle the run and keep McCourty at safety to improve the secondary's coverage along with Talib and the ever-improving Dennard. Cole is an upgrade in the slot over Arrington.

 

[Deus Irae]

Looking at offense positions in 2013 (positions of need in bold):

QB - Brady/Mallett
RB - Demps, Bolden, Ridley, Woodhead, Vereen
TE - Half the planet
WR - Lloyd, Lllllloyd, Llllllllllloyd, Llloyd
OT - Vollmer, Solder, Cannon
OG - Mankins, assorted backups
C - Connolly, Wendell

The team will only have needs as WR and OG. The WR needs can be alleviated if the team brings back Welker and Edelman. The OG spot is going to be a position of need. This means that the draft shouldn't be particularly important for the offense, especially if the team does a decent job in free agency.

The defense, on the other hand, is going to have needs.


Given this sort of situation, having a lot of picks is less important in this upcoming draft, IMO.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Here is my idea of learning the playbook in 2 seconds if you are in the Pats secondary......

SIMPLY DON'T ALLOW 10 YARD CUSHIONS ON MAN TO MAN AND TURN YOUR DAMN HEAD FOR THE BALL!!

I'll say it right now with authority........That whether or now Aqib works out there is one definite thing already......Aqib will be the most physical presence in the secondary that was missing since Rodney left,the guy knows how to lay the blow.

Forgetting Merriweather?

Anyways good luck getting the scheme to change, as has been said millions of times this is a run stopping defense stuck in 1987, it isn't changing this season obviously, we have this guy as depth and ability to get turnovers which is great, but this is an offensive team and that's the reality.

Our best DB McCourty has regressed and when you consider how bad the D was with him playing well you have no choice but to accept it. Bad defenses can win championships, just need guys like Mankins and Welker to step up when we need them the most.

 

[DaBruinz]

God I hope this guy can hold it together for a 4 months.

However his last two seasons have not been as good as his first two.

With that said, hes still better than anyone else that plays CB on this team.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Aqib Talib

That's weird that you say that his last two haven't been as good as his 1st two when all the advanced stats say otherwise.

 

[JackBauer]

Given this sort of situation, having a lot of picks is less important in this upcoming draft, IMO.

Seems to me that S and OG should be 1a. and 1b. in terms of draft priority. CB's in there, depending on Talib and Dennard's development. Haven't really looked at FA WRs, but wouldn't be surprised if they take a shot at Amendola.

edit: Of course, I think they should draft a wideout, too, but relying on the draft to resupply the position is perilous.

 

[JJDChE]

Here are the 4th round picks the Pats have made since Bill took over

2000 Greg Randall
2001 Kenyatta Jones & Jabari Holloway
2002 Rohan Davey & Jarvis Green
2003 Asante Samuel & Dan Klecko
2004 Dexter Reid & Cedric Cobbs
2005 James Sanders
2006 Gostkoswki & Garrett Mills
2007 Kareem Brown
2008 Jonathan Wilhite
2009 Rich Ohrnberger
2010 Aaron Hernandez
2011 No Pick
2012 No Pick

31% on picks in the 4th round. Green, Samuel, Sanders, Gostkoswki and Hernandez. And only two of them are still with the team.

So really there was a 70/30 chance that pick wouldn't have panned out.

It's really only 2/16 if you are considering talent level compared to Talib. Samuel and Hernandez are the only ones in Talib's class. Green and to a lesser extent Sanders are serviceable backups. Gostkowski is a kicker, so umm yeah. The rest are pretty much completely useless.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Here are the 4th round picks the Pats have made since Bill took over

2000 Greg Randall
2001 Kenyatta Jones & Jabari Holloway
2002 Rohan Davey & Jarvis Green
2003 Asante Samuel & Dan Klecko
2004 Dexter Reid & Cedric Cobbs
2005 James Sanders
2006 Gostkoswki & Garrett Mills
2007 Kareem Brown
2008 Jonathan Wilhite
2009 Rich Ohrnberger
2010 Aaron Hernandez
2011 No Pick
2012 No Pick

31% on picks in the 4th round. Green, Samuel, Sanders, Gostkoswki and Hernandez. And only two of them are still with the team.

So really there was a 70/30 chance that pick wouldn't have panned out.

Yeah, but some of those 4th rounders were MAJOR contributors to winning the Lombardi. Without Assante Samuel we probably don't win in 2003 & especially 2004 (with Ty Law and Tyrone Poole on IR). Jarvis Green was our 2nd or 3rd best pass rushing D-lineman during 2003 & 2004. Gostkowski and Hernandez were major contributors in helping us get to the SB last year. Not saying I don't like the trade, it was a trade for a need. But never discount the 4th round as a crappy round, you can find real gems/pro bowlers in the 4th round, I believe Jared Allen was a 4th round pick. It's BB's fault that we haven't been incredibly successful in the 4th round, some great picks, lotsa huge misses too. Moreso in the 2nd round, which is really troubling.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Me, I was so jacked & pumped that I did the Tiger Woods...
Sorry, I remembered it's a family site
My bad

Big deal. Who hasn't?

Regards,
Chris

 

[DaBruinz]

Seems to me that S and OG should be 1a. and 1b. in terms of draft priority. CB's in there, depending on Talib and Dennard's development. Haven't really looked at FA WRs, but wouldn't be surprised if they take a shot at Amendola.

edit: Of course, I think they should draft a wideout, too, but relying on the draft to resupply the position is perilous.

Jack - According to Bedard, the Pats have been wanting to move McCourty to safety all season and were able to do it out of necessity. Adding Talib helps keep McCourty back there.

If the Pats have McCourty, Wilson, Ebner, and Gregory going into the off-season, it's unlikely that they will have safety as a top pick. On the other hand, it's much more likely that they add an OT with Vollmer's status up in the air. When he's healthy, we all know he's one of the best RTs in the league. The problem has been keeping him healthy. Vollmer's contrct is also up at the end of the season. If they don't re-sign him, that makes it a bigger issue.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pats take an OT whom they could move inside to OG before they took a safety. And, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pats look at DT/LDE or DT/NT.

 

[JJDChE]

That's weird that you say that his last two haven't been as good as his 1st two when all the advanced stats say otherwise.

That's the problem with CB stats. Less tackles, INTs and PDs can be either good or bad. Likes like it's the 'good' variety of 'production' decreases for Talib.

 

[mgteich]

So, is your point that the offense doesn't need any of the top 3 picks if VOLLMER, EDELMAN, and WELKER are re-signed? BTW, I don't think that OG will be a top 3 priority, given that we have Connolly. I would think that we would make a priority of re-signing Thomas.

The defense definitely still needs help.

Looking at offense positions in 2013 (positions of need in bold):

QB - Brady/Mallett
RB - Demps, Bolden, Ridley, Woodhead, Vereen
TE - Half the planet
WR - Lloyd, Lllllloyd, Llllllllllloyd, Llloyd
OT - Vollmer, Solder, Cannon
OG - Mankins, assorted backups
C - Connolly, Wendell

The team will only have needs as WR and OG. The WR needs can be alleviated if the team brings back Welker and Edelman. The OG spot is going to be a position of need. This means that the draft shouldn't be particularly important for the offense, especially if the team does a decent job in free agency.

The defense, on the other hand, is going to have needs.


Given this sort of situation, having a lot of picks is less important in this upcoming draft, IMO.

 

[jays52]

Love the trade but unless Belichick stops his BS policy of playing off and rushing four men 90%+ of the time, then all he just got you was another fan whipping boy for you to vent your frustrations out on.

I wish it were that simple. We need to look at this more completely. They are playing a scheme that plays to the strength of the team, which is the offense. Gameplans are not delineated between offense and defense. The idea is pretty clear that the offense is going to score 20+ points. The offense should possess and advance the ball well. If they don't, they are outstanding in the punting game. They are designed to defend long fields. Defending long fields with a good offense comes down to forcing an opponent to consistently execute and sustain drives. Blitzing has its place, but should be used situationally, and should be disguised when it comes. If you are too pressure reliant you will get gashed if you roll the dice enough. When you have a good offense, the defensive key is to prevent quick scoring plays. The other keys are getting off the field when needed, getting opportune negative plays, and holding them to three when necessary. If you exclude the obvious struggles at safety and less frequently at corner, the defense has actually looked quite good. I'm quick to criticize scheme when necessary, but this season the defensive coaching has actually been really good. They just need to get a few things shored up on the back end. If they can do that and stay healthy up front they can be a dominant unit.

 

[JJDChE]

Yeah, but some of those 4th rounders were MAJOR contributors to winning the Lombardi. Without Assante Samuel we probably don't win in 2003 & especially 2004 (with Ty Law and Tyrone Poole on IR). Jarvis Green was our 2nd or 3rd best pass rushing D-lineman during 2003 & 2004. Gostkowski and Hernandez were major contributors in helping us get to the SB last year. Not saying I don't like the trade, it was a trade for a need. But never discount the 4th round as a crappy round, you can find real gems/pro bowlers in the 4th round, I believe Jared Allen was a 4th round pick. It's BB's fault that we haven't been incredibly successful in the 4th round, some great picks, lotsa huge misses too. Moreso in the 2nd round, which is really troubling.

Good god. Please. Getting a proven commodity, even for 8 games, is a huge win. As you can see 11 out of 16 players on that list never contributed anything of value for this team even for 1 game. That means that pick we just gave up has about a 2/3rds chance of being worth absolutely nothing. We just traded it for a 95% chance that we will get productivity out of it. As no brainer as they come.

Freaking draftniks. :bricks: