Pats get CB Aqib Talib from the Bucs !!

[Deus Irae]

So, is your point that the offense doesn't need any of the top 3 picks if VOLLMER, EDELMAN, and WELKER are re-signed?

The team is going to have definite needs (even if players are re-signed) at

DL/OLB (what is needed will depend on whether or not the team goes back to a truer 3-4 base)
OG
WR

and will have definite need for at least one of the CB/S grouping.

BTW, I don't think that OG will be a top 3 priority, given that we have Connolly. I would think that we would make a priority of re-signing Thomas.

The defense definitely still needs help.

Connolly's not a quality guard. He should be the starting center. Thomas could retire tomorrow without the team missing a beat.

 

[mgteich]

Dante's patchwork at C and RG is good enough to make us one of the best OL's in the league. I agree that we should upgrade if we can. Our C and RG positions are the weakest on the offense. My choice is free agency, precisely because we don't have very many draft picks. And Thomas has replace Mankins without the OL missing a beat.

Not exactly, but that's close enough.

Connolly's not a quality guard. He should be the starting center. And Thomas could retire tomorrow without the team missing a beat.

 

[JackBauer]

Jack - According to Bedard, the Pats have been wanting to move McCourty to safety all season and were able to do it out of necessity. Adding Talib helps keep McCourty back there.

If the Pats have McCourty, Wilson, Ebner, and Gregory going into the off-season, it's unlikely that they will have safety as a top pick. On the other hand, it's much more likely that they add an OT with Vollmer's status up in the air. When he's healthy, we all know he's one of the best RTs in the league. The problem has been keeping him healthy. Vollmer's contrct is also up at the end of the season. If they don't re-sign him, that makes it a bigger issue.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pats take an OT whom they could move inside to OG before they took a safety. And, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pats look at DT/LDE or DT/NT.

Fair point. If McCourty stays at S, then S is definitely less of/not a need.

 

[Deus Irae]

Good god. Please. Getting a proven commodity, even for 8 games, is a huge win. As you can see 11 out of 16 players on that list never contributed anything of value for this team even for 1 game. That means that pick we just gave up has about a 2/3rds chance of being worth absolutely nothing. We just traded it for a 95% chance that we will get productivity out of it. As no brainer as they come.

Freaking draftniks. :bricks:

Greg Randall
Kenyatta Jones
Jarvis Green
Asante Samuel
Dan Klecko
James Sanders
Gostkoswki
Jonathan Wilhite
Aaron Hernandez

8 of 16 started at one point or another.

 

[JJDChE]

Greg Randall
Kenyatta Jones
Jarvis Green
Asante Samuel
Dan Klecko
James Sanders
Gostkoswki
Jonathan Wilhite
Aaron Hernandez

8 of 16 started at one point or another.

Yup. Sure did.

Randall wasn't completely horrible. Jones, Wilhite were awful. I'd rather have street FAs.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Proven commodity.....in TB

Isn't Underwood a decent receiver there? Nothing is predictable here, nothing is proven without actual experience here.

Same goes for that 4th round rookie we gave up.

 

[Deus Irae]

Dante's patchwork at C and RG is good enough to make us one of the best OL's in the league. I agree that we should upgrade if we can. Our C and RG positions are the weakest on the offense. My choice is free agency, precisely because we don't have very many draft picks.

I understand your point but, regardless of your choice re: draft/trade/FA, the OG is going to be a position of need. When I'm looking at the level of importance of the upcoming draft, I have to take it into account unless/until it's solved pre-draft.

And Thomas has replace Mankins without the OL missing a beat.

Always find this sort of argument amusing. In this case, it's essentially implying that Connolly > Mankins, because the O-line clearly did miss a beat when Thomas subbed in at RG.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yup. Sure did.

Kills your argument

 

[mgteich]

I like our front 8 (starters plus Cunningham), all of which are signed at least through 2008. We could always use another pass-rusher, as almost all teams could.

I would be fine if we drafted 2-4 defensive backs in the first 3 rounds, and even moved up if necessary. For 2013, we have McCourty, Dennard (presuming that he isn't in jail), Wilson, Ebner and Gregory. Extending Talib would obviously help a lot (as long as he not on suspension).

I focused the above on our 2013 season needs. As the draft draws near, I think that we will many more needs in 2014 and 2015. After all, that is where the 2013 is supposed to focus. As it is now, we may need the all our picks before the 7th round to address 2013 needs. That is NOT a good situation.

The defense, on the other hand, is going to have needs.


Given this sort of situation, having a lot of picks is less important in this upcoming draft, IMO.

 

[Ring 6]

If Cole is healthy, it is not clear that we have ready to have him as our nickel. I'd be fine with that, but we have no reason to believe that Belichick now consider him our 5th best defensive back to add to Talib, McCourty, Wilson and Dennard. My guess is that Chung and/or Gregory as still higher regarded as safeties than Cole at corner.

Obviously, the biggest factor in these decisions is the health of Cole, Gregory, Chung and Arrington.

Dennard is the nickel back when Talib becomes the starting RCB.

 

[ATippett56]

According to Bedard, the Pats have been wanting to move McCourty to safety all season and were able to do it out of necessity.

Bedard's statement doesn't make sense based upon the New England Patriots off-season acquisitions. The New England Patriots signed safety Steven Gregory in unrestricted free agency and selected safety Tavon Wilson in the second round of the 2012 NFL Draft.

 

[PlainOldEd]

I like our front 8 (starters plus Cunningham), all of which are signed at least through 2008. We could always use another pass-rusher, as almost all teams could.

I would be fine if we drafted 2-4 defensive backs in the first 3 rounds, and even moved up if necessary. For 2013, we have McCourty, Dennard (presuming that he isn't in jail), Wilson, Ebner and Gregory. Extending Talib would obviously help a lot (as long as he not on suspension).

I focused the above on our 2013 season needs. As the draft draws near, I think that we will many more needs in 2014 and 2015. After all, that is where the 2013 is supposed to focus. As it is now, we may need the all our picks before the 7th round to address 2013 needs. That is NOT a good situation.

Signed through when?

 

[PP2]

Also, I think that the NFLPA could easily fight that this week would be the 4th game of the suspension since TB already had it's bye week as was pointed out and it would be unfair to punish him further since the original date to return was set at November 5th.

That is an excellent point and I hope this will be considered.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That's weird that you say that his last two haven't been as good as his 1st two when all the advanced stats say otherwise.

Gotta pay to see the premium stats. My bad.

In 2012 so far, he ranks 66th out of 104 CBs in NFL passer rating against, he ranks 72nd in catch% against (again out of 104 CBs), he ranks 97th in Yards allowed per completion. (However its worth noting that both Arrington and Sterling Moore were in the bottom 15 of all corners in passer rating and comp%).

In 2011, he ranked 94th out of 109 CBs in NFL passer rating against, 37th out of 109 CBs in catch% and 106th out of 109 CBs in yards per completion.

In 2010, he ranked 26th out of 100 CBs in NFL passer rating against, 40th out of 100 CBs in catch%, and 76th out of 100 CBs in yards per completion.

In 2009, he ranked 34th out of 107 CBs in NFL passer rating against, 52nd out of 107 CBs in catch% and 51st out of 107 CBs in yards per completion.

In 2008, he ranked 9th out of 114 CBs in NFL passer rating against, 15th out of 114 CBs in catch% and 69th out of 114 CBs in yards per completion.

 

[Deus Irae]

I like our front 8 (starters plus Cunningham), all of which are signed at least through 2008. We could always use another pass-rusher, as almost all teams could.

I would be fine if we drafted 2-4 defensive backs in the first 3 rounds, and even moved up if necessary. For 2013, we have McCourty, Dennard (presuming that he isn't in jail), Wilson, Ebner and Gregory. Extending Talib would obviously help a lot (as long as he not on suspension).

I focused the above on our 2013 season needs. As the draft draws near, I think that we will many more needs in 2014 and 2015. After all, that is where the 2013 is supposed to focus. As it is now, we may need the all our picks before the 7th round to address 2013 needs. That is NOT a good situation.

I could see this team making a transition back to a 'true' 3-4, which would require the team to get another 3-4 DE or two.

If the team stays in the 4-3/modified 3-4, it's going to need to find a better cover LB, and it's going to need to find at least one more player who can pressure the QB.

 

[JackBauer]

Dennard is the nickel back when Talib becomes the starting RCB.

If McCourty stays at S, I expect it to be Talib/Dennard.

 

[mgteich]

THE FRONT SEVEN PLAYERS ARE SIGNED THROUGH
2013 Ninkovich, Love, Spikes, Cunningham, Deaderick
2014 Wilfork
2015 Jones, Hightower, Bequette
2017 Mayo

The 2013 draft should be able to focus on 2014 and on our future DL, whether it be a 3-4 or a 4-3 DL.
Unfortunately, I think that we must address the continuing need at secondary. We need those players for 2013.

Signed through when?

 

[Deus Irae]

My lineup would be: LCB Talib, RCB Dennard, Slot: Arrington/Cole; S: McCourty, Gregory; Chung is 3rd S

https://twitter.com/GregABedard/statuses/264397476344233984

 

[ATippett56]

Looking at offense positions in 2013 (positions of need in bold):

QB - Brady/Mallett
RB - Demps, Bolden, Ridley, Woodhead, Vereen
TE - Half the planet
WR - Lloyd, Lllllloyd, Llllllllllloyd, Llloyd
OT - Vollmer, Solder, Cannon
OG - Mankins, assorted backups
C - Connolly, Wendell

The team will only have needs as WR and OG.

2013 New England Patriots wide receivers:

WR1: Welker
WR2: Lloyd
WR3: Gaffney
WR4: Salas
WR5: Slater

Stick a fork in Deion Branch, he is done. Thru eight games of the 2012 NFL Season, the "Edelman experiment" has failed.

 

[goheels22002]

I understand your point but, regardless of your choice re: draft/trade/FA, the OG is going to be a position of need. When I'm looking at the level of importance of the upcoming draft, I have to take it into account unless/until it's solved pre-draft.

Always find this sort of argument amusing. In this case, it's essentially implying that Connolly > Mankins, because the O-line clearly did miss a beat when Thomas subbed in at RG.

Absolutely correct. Dante Scarnecchia is doing an incredible job and should be in the NFL HOF someday for what he does with average players and patchwork units.

Solder and Vollmer have proven, after a rocky preseason, that they are top-flight Tackles in both the ground game and the passing game. The Patriots are set at Tackle and have good depth at Center.

Next year's draft will most likely begin with an Offensive Guard and then wander into more defensive backs, and what not. The greatest single need on this team (outside of a homerun DB) are Guards to replace Mankins as he shows increasing wear and tear, and Waters' spot now occupied by a committee of hard working but not elite linemen.