Outside Linebacker

[Marqui]

If TBC is really going to be starting, I just hope he takes the next step and can actually make an impact against teams other than the Bills.

 

[jmt57]

Rookie Cunningham Putting In Time by Mike Reiss for espnBoston.


At the end of the Patriots’ Tuesday morning walkthrough, rookie outside linebacker Jermaine Cunningham stayed on the field for some extra work, as veteran defensive lineman Gerard Warren tutored him on some finer points of the game.

“Just different techniques, different fundamentals, how to work your hands,” Cunningham explained afterwards.

The snapshot of that moment reflects how Cunningham has attacked his first NFL training camp. He’s been all-in, and given the Patriots’ shortage at outside linebacker/rush defensive end, he’s received quite a few repetitions.

 

[RayClay]

Cunningham will get the accelerated program like Mayo, hope he can take it. Murrell now seems to have the inside track on teams because he can rush or project to the OLB position, I guess. I'd like to see a real project or vet, hopefully.

Burgess is sure having a hard time finding those resignation papers, isn't he?

 

[jmt57]

Tully Banta-Cain: I Respect Any Decision By Burgess by Christopher Price for WEEI



Asked about concerns with the Patriots’ ability to pressure the passer, Banta-Cain said there is hope with the younger players. “I think the guys that we have I’m confident in,” he said. “There’s obviously guys that are lacking the experience because they haven’t had the opportunities. But there are guys that are well more than capable of getting to the quarterback and getting the job done. It’s just a matter of getting experience and more opportunities to get better at what they do.”

Asked about the possibility of former Bills defensive end Aaron Schobel coming to New England, Banta-Cain said: “I’m welcome to the idea, but I’m happy with the guys we have now.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I too agree that Woods is one of the starters playing the 1st and 2nd run downs. That saves TBC and Cunningham for the Pass Rush downs.

The situation we see at OLB today is what old Pats teams and pretenders like the Jets do all the time, but that is ordinarily not good enough for Belichick. In the bad old days the Pats would have a hole, and would draft a replacement player high and just insert him there and assume the problem was solved.

As an example consider the Jets. They drafted a tackle from UMass in the second round, dumped the existing starter at LG and just handed the position to the draftee. Later in the draft they chose a 3rd down RB and then dumped their existing RB, and just handed the position to the newcomer.

BB spoiled us by being different. He always got a older vet or two ex-starter, plus a couple of alternatives to compete for a spot. Here at OLB he started with a couple of incumbents Derrick, Pierre and Rob, added a new high draftee in Jermain and waited to see how a former IRed premium draftee would do.

Well the IRed draftee quickly washed out, and one of the vets unexpectedly retired, and suddenly there are only a few candidates for the job. He still has three as opposed to just one candidate but that is two more than the Jets or the old losing Pats allocated.

 

[crowell33]

If TBC is really going to be starting, I just hope he takes the next step and can actually make an impact against teams other than the Bills.

10 sacks is 10 sacks baby. You can break down any pass rusher's stats and there will always be sack clumps around the weaker teams. If you want to hate on the Patriots pass rushers, you have a lot of material to work with, but TBC had a very good season.

 

[jmt57]

Rob Ninkovich Fitting In Just Fine With Patriots by Jeff howe for NESN


"Well, anytime you're released the first day of training camp by one team, you're always going to be the underdog, especially coming into a team where you've got to prove yourself and you're a little behind in the playbook," Ninkovich said. "Last year, my mentality was just to come in here and make a difference. I had to show people I can play and can do certain things that made me get on the team."

Ninkovich made his mark on special teams, and he performed well on defense during his reps with the second team in the preseason. It's the exact recipe for an underdog.

At the outset of the Patriots' 2010 training camp, Ninkovich was starting at left outside linebacker -- in the spot Derrick Burgess was expected to win, opposite of Tully Banta-Cain -- and it showed the progress Ninkovich has made in the last year.

"I've come a long way," said Ninkovich, who was speaking about his career as a whole, as well as on defense. "Pass drops and stuff like that, when you're not used to dropping in coverage. You can get some reps at it and get your feet in it a little bit.

"Coming into camp, I knew that I had to improve at certain things. I wanted to focus on my pass drops and just get better."

"This year, I'm just trying to improve on what I did last year -- special teams, a little bit of defense that I played -- and I'm just trying to help the team the best I can," Ninkovich said. "I think my role now is just to go through training camp and improve my skills as an outside linebacker, as pass drops, stopping the run, all that stuff is together. If I can do that with these four preseason games, I'll be pretty confident, and going into the season, I'll be excited."

 

[patsfan-1982]

sounds like Ninkovich, is a starter going into preseason CHAMPIONSHIP lol on a more serious note i hope he dose great he's a real good story if he can become and keep the starting job at OLB

 

[jmt57]

Sharing Some More Schobel Opinion by Mike Reiss from espnBoston:

I don't think it's necessarily a slam dunk that Schobel lands in Houston, although it is clearly his first choice. His representatives have listened to other suitors and let the asking price be known. It is high. I'd estimate it in the $5-7 million range.

If anyone is going to get a discount, it's the Texans. That's the dynamic in play for a team like the Patriots.

From a New England perspective, the question to me is, "What would be the risk of signing Schobel to a one-year deal worth $6 million that could possibly be worth more with incentives?"

Acknowledging that it's always easier to spend someone else's money, the only risk I see is the potential ripple effect in the locker room. This dynamic was pointed out by Comcast SportsNet's Tom E. Curran in a piece today.

"With Logan Mankins stewing about his lack of a new deal and Tom Brady tapping his foot awaiting his own, throwing money at Schobel and a position that was supposed to be manned by The Reluctant End Derrick Burgess (obtained for a third and a fifth last year), would be messy business," Curran writes. "Necessary business, perhaps, but messy all the same."

I think that locker room dynamic is a significant issue to consider when it comes to potentially signing Schobel, but I don't think it should be enough to squash the team's pursuit. I actually think Schobel could contribute positively to the locker room and that his signing might actually improve the dyanmic in the locker room, not hurt it.

 

[jmt57]

I suppose the answer to the following question pretty much summarizes any and all 'let's move this (fill in the blank) ILB to OLB, and the pash rush will be fine' topics/debates/questions.

Ask PFW: Training camp rush

With creatively in much subject line, this email will probably get auto-routed to Erik the artist. Let’s hope it does...For the question...It appears we are going to have 3 studs at ILB. Technically they can't all be on the field at once...why dont' we think about moving one of the 3 outside to play OLB...the one that can best set the edge, drop into coverage and rush...Is this absolutely insane, or is there some logic here?
John in Dallas

Sorry, Erik isn’t answering this week. Get over it. And I’m not sure your first sentence is even English. There is a very fine line between thinking creatively and trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Or a round peg into a square hole. Regardless, if a guy doesn’t have the skills required to play a position it doesn’t matter if you have an overload at one spot and a thin depth chart at another. I am of the belief that while you could line them up there and give them a shot, that none of the names at inside linebacker – Gary Guyton, Brandon Spikes, Tyrone McKenzie or Jerod Mayo – is a suitable option at outside linebacker in the Patriots 3-4 scheme. So to put it bluntly, it would be creative to line Tom Brady up at wide receiver and put Wes Welker under center. That doesn’t mean it would be good for the team. But thanks for the email, John. And be sure to call us on PFW in Progress so we can argue about this verbally, again. I know you’re always up for that.

 

[jmt57]

Banta-Cain has made himself a home in New England by Glen Farley for the Taunton Daily Gazette:

In the aftermath of a career season — 60 tackles, 10 sacks in 2009 — Banta-Cain was signed by the Patriots to a three-year contract worth a potential $18 million that will extend his second stint in New England.

A steep price to pay?

Banta-Cain may have finished in double figures in sacks last year, but he’s completed three of his seven NFL seasons (including as recently as 2008) with single digits in the tackle column?

So, sure, it’s a hefty price, but given the Patriots’ plight at the outside linebacker position, a bad situation made worse by Derrick Burgess’ no-show at training camp, where would they would be if Banta-Cain had up and left?

“Tully’s really picked up where he left off last year,” Patriots head coach Bill Belichick observed recently. “He’s having a good camp and taken over a little bit of a leadership role as well.”

Said Banta-Cain: “Every year you try to do something a little better than you did the year before. Last year I had an opportunity to come in as a situational player and build off that role. The more opportunities I got, the better I got, and the more plays I was able to make.

“By the end of the year, I was on the field more. So every year you just take what you did the year before and try to build on it. That’s what I did last year, and that’s what I’m going to do this year.”

 

[jmt57]

Mark Farinella of the Attleboro Sun-Chronicle says Banta-Cain hopes to continue last year's success:

Will Tully Banta-Cain's foot fit the glass slipper again this year, allowing him to live happily ever after?

Or is it time for the carriage that brought him back to New England to turn back into a pumpkin?

No one knows, of course. But Patriots' coach Bill Belichick seems to think that the eighth-year outside linebacker out of California can improve upon the amazing rebirth that made him the team's sack leader in his first year back with the Patriots after two mediocre seasons in San Francisco.

Banta-Cain had 59 tackles and 31/2 sacks in 10 starts in 2007, but he rarely saw the field in 2008 and was heading for the scrap heap of football before Bill Belichick summoned him back in February 2009, essentially in a last-chance gesture to add depth to the linebacking corps.

"I think it was a learning experience and I don't regret going to San Francisco," Banta-Cain said. "If anything, I think it helped me in my career in that it gave me a chance to see another organization and how they do things and comparatively be able to analyze it. But obviously I'm more familiar with the Patriots. I've been here longer, I know the coach better and it feels like more of a home to me here."

 

[jmt57]

Some more pre-camp roster rankings by WEEI's Christopher Price:

It Is What It Is Rating the Roster, Training Camp Edition (Part 4)


43. Outside linebacker Rob Ninkovich: Ninkovich stepped in to provide some relief for Tully Banta-Cain on several occasions last year and performed as well as could be expected for a backup. Barring a surprise, the rock-solid 6-foot-2, 255-pound Ninkovich should be back in that role again this season, and will almost certainly work on special teams as well. His playing time could be tied to whether or not Shawn Crable is able to play — if not, Ninkovich’s reps will almost certainly increase.


41. Outside linebacker/special teamer Pierre Woods: That description for Woods should probably be flipped. A serviceable spot player at OLB who can still fill in there in a pinch, the 6-foot-5, 255-pounder out of Michigan really flourished on special teams the last few years — since 2006 he has more special teams tackles than anyone on the team. One of the best examples of the Foxboro philosophy: The more you can do, the more you can do for us.

 

[jmt57]

With a thin OLB unit becoming thinner due to the injury to Marques Murrell, could Brandon Spikes see some time there?

Today's Patriots Training Camp Observations To Completely Blow Out Of proportion ... Spikes To The Rescue! by Ian Rapoport for the Boston Herald:


Is is possible for a linebacker who had one of the slowest 40 times at the NFL’s scouting combine, to be the solution at outside linebacker for the Patriots? Can rookie Brandon Spikes effectively rush the quarterback if he’s now thrust in that role?

Well, Spikes may not be the answer, but he could be a pretty good short-term fix, especially with Marques Murrell going down with an apparent injury (he was carted off right at the end of the second session).

Without Murrell, the Pats only have Tully Banta-Cain, Jermaine Cunningham, Rob Ninkovich and Pierre Woods left to play outside linebacker, so it’s a thin position as it is. Inside linebacker Gary Guyton looks like he may be returning soon, so that would free up Spikes to move to the outside, or at the very least, provide some depth.

If you think he won’t be able to get the passer, there’s evidence to suggest otherwise. While at Florida, playing on the inside, Spikes had three quarterback sacks during the 2009 season alone. Today, he got some reps on the outside for the first time in camp, and was able to get some pressure on the quarterback. And that was before Murrell went down.

So stay tuned.

 

[jmt57]

More on the (lack of) Depth At OLB In The Spotlight by Mike Reiss for espnBoston:

If Murrell can not play Thursday night against the Saints, it leaves the Patriots dangerously short at the position, with the following players:

Tully Banta-Cain
Rob Ninkovich
Jermaine Cunningham
Pierre Woods

One of the things coaches pay close attention to early in camp is overtaxing certain players; the preference is to bring them along gradually. If Murrell is not an option to practice or play, the team will have to carefully manage the few players remaining at outside linebacker/rush defensive end.

 

[bigfandan]

Draft decisions are good indicators of scheme flexibility. When a team is "close-minded" (for the lack of a better word), it would see very few players fitting its scheme; it was the case for Pats with OLB; it passed on guys like Woodley, Cushing, Mathews, Larinitis and Maualuga. Even if it drafted the player, the team may not have the scheme flexibity to make the talent success in its scheme.

The stuff BB is doing with OLB, it will in NFL textbook on what not to do to develop pass rush. A cautionary tale.

It's really discouraging as a fan to see OLB not really be addressed the way it needed to be. You play a base 3-4 defense and over the years your great defenses have consisted of guys like McGinest and Vrabel. I honestly don't know how you go into a season by only picking up 1 OLB (Cunningham) after the pass rush was abysmal last season. They did a better job at trying to fix the problems at RDE by bringing in guys like Warren and Lewis while having some young guys like Pryor, Brace, Richard, Deaderick who can battle and maybe turn into something decent.

...
I don't get how this team can have such a gaping whole at OLB yet only use one draft pick to "address" it. Hell, the Steelers have two guys who have made the Pro Bowl in the last two years in Harrison and Woodley, and they spent the same amount of resources on OLB as we did in the draft by taking Worilds in the 2nd round. ...

 

[satz]

One of the biggest knock a few years ago on woods was he was more of a RUN stuffer OLB and not a pass rusher. I think right now if he was developed he could have actually helped us alot. After 2 yrs in the outside i wonder how much reps he actually got as a run stuffer.

Him and Cunningham are going to be one side and tully and rob on the other.
we need 1 more rush end a big one right now as all the above are 250-260 LB OLB. You need a 280-290 LB run stuffer in games where bigger tackles are involved for early downs.

 

[jmt57]

As of today, perhaps Cunningham would move up in WEEI's roster rankings that Christopher Price put together two weeks ago:

It Is What It Is Rating the Roster, Training Camp Edition (Part 5)


34. Linebacker Jermaine Cunningham: The 6-foot-3, 260-pound Florida defender was an end with the Gators, but figures to transition nicely into the outside linebacker spot in his first year with the Patriots. While Derrick Burgess is likely still the No. 1 option at the outside spot opposite Tully Banta-Cain, Tuesday’s news that Shawn Crable was placed on PUP could open up more reps for Cunningham — if Crable is out for an extended stretch and Cunningham can take advantage, he could be a presence sooner rather than later.

 

[Patspsycho]

With a thin OLB unit becoming thinner due to the injury to Marques Murrell, could Brandon Spikes see some time there?

Today's Patriots Training Camp Observations To Completely Blow Out Of proportion ... Spikes To The Rescue! by Ian Rapoport for the Boston Herald:


Well, Spikes may not be the answer, but he could be a pretty good short-term fix, especially with Marques Murrell going down with an apparent injury (he was carted off right at the end of the second session).
So stay tuned.

This is completely wrong. Murrell went down with heat-related cramps. He is fine now.

 

[jmt57]

Mike Reiss of espnBoston says Eyes On Rookie OLB Cunningham


The Patriots' preseason opener is expected to be a good chance to evaluate rookie linebackers Brandon Spikes (second round, 62nd overall) and Jermaine Cunningham (second round, 53rd overall). Both are projected to see significant playing time.

But Cunningham was limited in Wednesday morning's practice after getting shaken up during a punt-return drill.

Cunningham was playing on the line of scrimmage and as he turned to race down the field to set up the team's blocking scheme, his feet seemed to get tangled up with a Saints player. Cunningham walked to the sideline under his own power and it looked like his ankle was being evaluated by trainer Jim Whalen.

It didn't appear to be anything major, although it will be something to monitor in terms of Cunningham's playing time Thursday night.