Outside Linebacker

[jmt57]

You can't be serious. Murrell is #2?

EDIT: since Ian touted this guy I'll change mty post.

He doesn't seriously consider Murrell one of the starters at OLB does he? What does he mean by "depth chart"?

Yeah, I did a double take on that as well.


I think it's because Howe is focusing on 'this exact moment in time', as opposed to whom he projects will be on the roster or starting come Week One. As a result Burgess is low because he just got here and has done nothing in TC yet, and Cunningham slipped due to not having practiced recently.


On the other hand Morris is his #1 RB, so there does seem to be a little bit of a lack of consistency in how he bases his rankings from one position to another.

 

[RayClay]

Yeah, I did a double take on that as well.


I think it's because Howe is focusing on 'this exact moment in time', as opposed to whom he projects will be on the roster or starting come Week One. As a result Burgess is low because he just got here and has done nothing in TC yet, and Cunningham slipped due to not having practiced recently.


On the other hand Morris is his #1 RB, so there does seem to be a little bit of a lack of consistency in how he bases his rankings from one position to another.

I don't see much value in that, really. It's confusing enough with the new players, he should use his judgment to augment what's on the field because they are holding auditions.

 

[captain stone]

The glass is mostly empty crowd, are still at it, in force!

If any other team were discussing its OLBs they would start with the resumes of its starters. Best is 10 sacks in a year for TBC; and 16 sacks in a a year for Derrick Burgess. Age 31 and 30, hardly antiques. Depth? Two above average JAGs who have started games for the Pats. Both experienced, and neither is a pure scrub. Plus a premium draft pick to develop.

Dispassionate grade assigned A-.

An A- for our OLBs? That grade is so incorrect, it's laughable.

 

[JMarr]

An A- for our OLBs? That grade is so incorrect, it's laughable.

Maybe not laughable, but I basically agree:

3 servicable guys in TBC, Burgess and Cunningham: Nothing to write home about.

Depth: Woods, Nink, and Murrell (?): Three guys who all couldn't possibly have lower ceilings. Scheme is going to have to cover for the OLB weakness--Mayo, Spikes and the secondary could end up getting almost all the sacks this year.

Personally, I was hoping BB would shock everyone and try either Spikes or Guyton outside as an Elephant in some packages, but it's not looking like that's going to happen.

Ironic that the secondary is now by far the strength of the Defense.

 

[jmt57]

Paul Perillo of Patriots Football Weekly notes that Marques Murrell has taken advantage of the previous absence of Derrick Burgess.

Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog - Paul’s Calls: More for Marques

“Regardless of where I’ve been or what happens you still have your opportunity yourself,” Murrell said following this afternoon’s practice inside the Dan-Farber Field House. “This year I’m trying to take full opportunity even more and I’m just working hard. I’m getting chances to show what I can do but it’s up to me to take advantage of that.”

Most of Murrell’s previous experience has come on special teams, but he said his experience with the Patriots system from his days playing for Eric Mangini in New York have made his assimilation much easier.

“My transition’s been pretty smooth because I’ve been in a 34 before,” Murrell said. “My rookie and second year in the league with the Jets we ran the same defense. Everything’s been an easy transition. The terminology is different but I’ve tried to stay focused on my plays and understanding the details of the defense and getting the concepts down.”

 

[jmt57]

Chris Warner of Patriots Daily has his doubts heading into the game against the Rams.

http://www.patriotsdaily.com/2010/08/worry-wart-–-preseason-game-three-vs-rams/

Why The Hurry? There’s No Rush:
Though the score didn’t indicate it, the Falcons gobbled up yards like Jets coach Rex Ryan eats M&Ms (Seriously, if you enjoy watching runaway trains, check out “Hard Knocks.” You’re telling me Charlie Weis needed a gastric bypass and Ryan doesn’t?). Give QB Matt Ryan (noooo relation) credit, but New England needs a pass rush. Will Tully Banta-Cain play this week, or will Marques Murrell step up? How close is rookie Jermaine Cunningham to returning? And when will Derrick Burgess actually show this “improvement” we’ve all been reading about?

 

[jmt57]

From espnBoston's Mike Reiss: Third Game, Third OLB Combination

The feeling here is that this week's projected combination at outside linebacker -- Derrick Burgess and Tully Banta-Cain -- will be the opening-day starters. This will be the first chance to see them playing together this preseason.

In the first preseason game, it was a Marques Murrell/Banta-Cain combination, as Burgess had yet to report.

In the second preseason game, it was a Murrell/Burgess combination, as Banta-Cain was sidelined with an injury.

So this should be a good week to see what the Burgess/Banta-Cain combination can do out of the 3-4 alignment, as the Rams are starting a rookie left tackle (Rodger Saffold), a second-year right tackle (Jason Smith), and a rookie quarterback (Sam Bradford).

 

[pdangle]

This is the position/scheme I'm most interested in checking out this week and onward. Everyone seems so worried, BB not so much. Why? Don't know. That's why I want to check it. I guess he feels he can scheme around ONE weakness...or is it even a weakness at all...hmmmm?

 

[AzPatsFan]

This is the position/scheme I'm most interested in checking out this week and onward. Everyone seems so worried, BB not so much. Why? Don't know. That's why I want to check it. I guess he feels he can scheme around ONE weakness...or is it even a weakness at all...hmmmm?

The reason Belichick is not as concerned is because the problem was solved, last season. It has been over hyped, ad nauseum, by mediots who don't understand Football at all. The Pats were 1 sack under the Jets who had the #1 Defense.

In assessing sack totals, each corps of players has a nominal quota of sacks to accrue. The OLBs met their quota last season. TBC and Burgess both have double digit sack totals in their Curriculum Vitae. Jermain Cunningham is a prized rookie taken with a premium draft pick to groom. There is depth behind him.

When Seymour was traded, the Defensive line sack totals fell off to less than half the number expected. The ILBs sack totals, with the departure of Bruschi, declined too.

To increase the sack totals it must come from those two squads, not necessarily the OLBs. The addition of Spikes and the return of McKenzie help the ILBs sack possibilities. The signing of G Warren, and D Lewis along with Ron Brace's development will help the DL sack totals, four ways.

1) Wright a proven sacker will be fresher.
2) They both are better sackers than who played last year.
3) The Run defense should be tighter creating more 3rd and longs instead of the myriad of third and shorts from 2009. You just can't pass rush and accumulate sacks, when the Offense is apt to run, as well as pass.
4) Finally, there was little interior rush last season and QBs were able to step up into the pocket, and away from the outside rush; no longer.

Belichick knows how to Coach. He knew where the real problems were and what had to be fixed, that is where he spent his off season attentions. Defensive line was primary, ILBs were secondary, and the defensive backfield was third.

:bricks:

 

[Kontradiction]

Maybe not laughable, but I basically agree:

3 servicable guys in TBC, Burgess and Cunningham: Nothing to write home about.

Depth: Woods, Nink, and Murrell (?): Three guys who all couldn't possibly have lower ceilings. Scheme is going to have to cover for the OLB weakness--Mayo, Spikes and the secondary could end up getting almost all the sacks this year.

Personally, I was hoping BB would shock everyone and try either Spikes or Guyton outside as an Elephant in some packages, but it's not looking like that's going to happen.

Ironic that the secondary is now by far the strength of the Defense.

Spikes would be a HORRIBLE fit at OLB on this team. Guyton wouldn't be much better than that.

 

[mgteich]

It seems that, as of now, the starting rotation at OLB is Banta-Cain, Burgess and Murrell. At this point, Murrell is replacing Thomas in the rotation. He should be able to produce as well as Thomas did in 2009 (not a high bar). Burgess should be a bit better after a year in the system.

Woods would be a run-only OLB if he makes the team. Ninkovich is a STer and can fill in to give others a rest, if needed. I would note that backup OLB's get many fewer reps than one might imagine.

Cunningham is the rookie-in-training who has been injured. This is not the resume of a Game One starter for a Belichick team. Personally, I think the best we can expect is for Cunningham to be a contributer after the bye. For me, I would be fine with him starting. However, I would also be fine with Cunningham being inactive.

BOTTOM LINE
I keep all six OLB's on my roster projections. They all have roles on the team. It certainly helps that this group includes some top special teamers: Banta-Cain, Woods, Murrell and Ninkovich.

From espnBoston's Mike Reiss: Third Game, Third OLB Combination

 

[Deus Irae]

The reason Belichick is not as concerned is because the problem was solved, last season. It has been over hyped, ad nauseum, by mediots who don't understand Football at all. The Pats were 1 sack under the Jets who had the #1 Defense.

That must be why they didn't bring back their starting OLB, they drafted an OLB and they've got a Jets castoff starting at the position right now.


All because they solved it last season. :bricks:

 

[mgteich]

I agree. However, perhaps Belichick thought a rejuvenated Thomas was the answer at OLB.

That must be why they didn't bring back their starting OLB, they drafted an OLB and they've got a Jets castoff starting at the position right now.


All because they solved it last season. :bricks:

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree. However, perhaps Belichick thought a rejuvenated Thomas was the answer at OLB.

That may, or may not, be. My point was about the notion that the Patriots solved the OLB problem last season. That's clearly not an accurate assessment.

 

[Off The Grid]

This is the position/scheme I'm most interested in checking out this week and onward. Everyone seems so worried, BB not so much. Why? Don't know. That's why I want to check it. I guess he feels he can scheme around ONE weakness...or is it even a weakness at all...hmmmm?

Coach Bill wasn't worried LAST year, EITHER...and we all saw how THAT worked out. :bricks:

***

Coach Bill The Mad is the VERY best in the Game...but his persistent negligence of OLB is INSANITY.

 

[mgteich]

A repeat of last year's record of being the #5 defense in terms of points scored will likely be good enough to lead us deep into the playoffs. The rest will be up to our top 5 offense.

Coach Bill wasn't worried LAST year, EITHER...and we all saw how THAT worked out. :bricks:

***

Coach Bill The Mad is the VERY best in the Game...but his persistent negligence of OLB is INSANITY.

 

[jmt57]

New England Patriots' defensive pecking order is coming into focus - ESPN Boston

5. Questions remain about the ability to consistently generate pressure out of the four-man rush. There were promising early signs against the Saints when outside linebacker Marques Murrell (two starts, 70 snaps played) sacked Drew Brees on the third play of the preseason opener. The outside linebacker spot is where the Patriots' fourth rusher would most often be coming from, so is Murrell (0 career starts) really the answer? At the very least, he looks like he's jumped ahead of Rob Ninkovich, who was lined up with the first unit on the first day of camp, on the depth chart.

9. Derrick Burgess is ready to expand his role. Last year, the 10-year veteran mostly played in a three-point stance as a pass-rusher. But Burgess is playing more in a two-point stance this year in more of a traditional outside linebacker role. The Patriots eased him into the mix by playing him just the first three series Thursday in Atlanta.

 

[AzPatsFan]

That must be why they didn't bring back their starting OLB, they drafted an OLB and they've got a Jets castoff starting at the position right now.


All because they solved it last season. :bricks:

Oh, None so ignorant as those who will not see!

Belichick brought TBC back last season. TBC produced and gave him 10 sacks from the ROLB or weakside OLB position. Belichick traded for Derrick Burgess on the eve of the season, after Crabel failed. DB has had seasons of producing 11 and 16 sacks from the SOLB or strongside OLB. Derrick is only 31. TBC just turned 30.

By contrast, Miami unceremonioulsy dumped its geriatric Pass Rush duo, Porter 34, & Taylor 36 tis off season; and yet every one here and the Mediots would call that pair "awesome". Needless to say they didn't match TBC and DB last season.

Significantly, Belichcik has a strong pass rusher at both ends where they both prefer to play, so they complement each other. New to the team and the 3-4, Burgess started slow and got better as the season wore on, finishing fine. Collectively with a 2 sack contribution from Thomas at OLB last year, you will find the OLB squad produced 18 or so sacks. The balance came from elsewhere.

If you care to look at the history of the SB Defenses, those OLB squads produced around 15 sacks annually, with the Team balance coming from elsewhere, and anywhere, which confused blockers and QBs.

Seymour-less the Defensive line produced only 5 sacks, yet in most SB years the informal "quota" was a dozen or more. With a half dozen more contributed by the ILBs, who produced Nada, or rather one, 1, o-n-e, in 2009, with no Bruschi. Harrison's league leading missing sacks from the Safety position hurt too.

Belichick thus fixed the OLB pass rush last season. Now he restores the Pass Rush sacks from the DL, (Warren, Pryor, Lewis and a fresher Wright); ILBs, (healthy Mayo, Spikes, MacKenzie, Guyton); and Safeties, (Chung!), collapsing the Pocket which was also missing last year.

 

[AzPatsFan]

An A- for our OLBs? That grade is so incorrect, it's laughable.

And what would you know, private?

 

[VJCPatriot]

That may, or may not, be. My point was about the notion that the Patriots solved the OLB problem last season. That's clearly not an accurate assessment.

Some people have the blinders on. What can you say to them? I think the Pats have an interesting mix at outside linebacker right now. Can Murrell and Cunningham make an impact?