Outside Linebacker

[mgteich]

IMHO, Woods is the starter in the base 3-4 as he was last year. Ninkovich will get plenty of reps, his own from last year and those of Thomas.

Also, I am not sure Spikes will start over McKenzie.

I agree that Cunningham is the one who will take the Burgess reps. That is why Belichick is looking at free agent options and will certainly have his folks talk to Burgess to make sure of the situation. After all, it isn't unusual for a veteran to consider retirement and skipping the 2 a days. However, IT IS unusual for such a player to surprise Belichick with such actions.

here is my guess on who will start



Gary Guyton, and Jerod Mayo, at ILB Brandon Spikes, will take junior seau, spot and Tyrone McKenzie, will be the #4 ILB


at OLB Tully Banta-Cain, and Rob Ninkovich, in the base 3-4 and Jermaine Cunningham, will take burgess, spot as the nickel DE.



the pats and BB are going to have to get creative if they wanna get to the QB more inside blitzs from Guyton and Patrick Chung, bring Devin McCourty, on a CB blitz play a lil zone some 1 gap


if they try to play defense the way they played last year. not hideing there blizts and all the OLB just bull rushing the pass rush will be even worst then last year.

 

[jmt57]

It Is What It Is Bill Belichick Q&A, 8/2

BB: I think all five of those players have done some good things. Tully [Banta-Cain] has really picked up where he left off last year. He gained a lot of experience and he’s done a good job. I think he’s having a good camp. He’s taken over a little bit of a leadership role as well, in terms of his experience and I think he has a lot of confidence and that carries over to other guys. Pierre [Woods] and Rob [Ninkovich] are definitely ahead of where they were last year. Again, Rob kind of came in late and [there was] a little bit of catch up with him all year, although he did a lot of good things. But I think this year he is starting from much higher ground. Jermaine [Cunningham] has picked up things very well. I think each day you can definitely see him getting better, more confident, understanding things that happened the day before and being able to process that, and the same thing with Marques [Murrell]. Even though he has played, he’s still new to the team. But I think that this spring, and now coming into training camp with padded practices and the contact and all that, that he’s making good strides as well. I think that group has worked hard. They communicate well with the inside linebackers. I think we have good competition there.

 

[jmt57]

Christopher Price of WEEI profiles the camp's least-discussed OLB.

It Is What It Is Rating the Roster, Training Camp Edition (Part 2)

61. Outside linebacker Marques Murrell: An intriguing signing on a couple of levels — a former Jet, his brother (running back Adrian Murrell) played in the league for many years — his special teams skills are his strong suit: “In the NFL, you always have to look at yourself as a special teamer first,” he said this spring. “Special teams can change the game instantly as a deep bomb by [Tom] Brady or an interception by [Brandon] Meriweather and taking it to the house. I definitely look at myself as special teams first, then a defensive player.”

 

[Ring 6]

IMHO, Woods is the starter in the base 3-4 as he was last year. Ninkovich will get plenty of reps, his own from last year and those of Thomas.

Also, I am not sure Spikes will start over McKenzie.

I agree that Cunningham is the one who will take the Burgess reps. That is why Belichick is looking at free agent options and will certainly have his folks talk to Burgess to make sure of the situation. After all, it isn't unusual for a veteran to consider retirement and skipping the 2 a days. However, IT IS unusual for such a player to surprise Belichick with such actions.

If Woods is considered the starter his grip on the job isnt very strong.
BTW, he wasnt the startter last year, except for when we were shorthanded or Thomas had hs toes up.

 

[Off The Grid]

IMHO, Woods is the starter in the base 3-4 as he was last year.

How's that Crack?

 

[jmt57]

Mike Reiss looks at the Pats' current OLB position.

New England Patriots' biggest training camp question mark is their pass rush - ESPN Boston
Breaking down the OLB depth chart - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

In his return to New England after two uninspiring seasons in San Francisco, Banta-Cain experienced a revival in playing 67 percent of the defensive snaps last season. This year, could he be as effective if that number spikes to the Mike Vrabel-like 80-90 percent range?

That is a fair question to ask when it comes to the 6-foot-2, 250-pound Banta-Cain. He's already proved to be effective as a sub rusher and occasional early-down option, and now the coaching staff must consider how having him play more might alter his impact as a pass-rusher.

If Banta-Cain doesn't see his playtime increase, perhaps that means second-round draft choice Jermaine Cunningham (53rd overall), whose speed and athleticism have been easy to spot on the practice field, is thrust immediately into the fire.

 

[eagle eye]

We really have to hope that Cunningham is a fast learner by the looks of things. Personally I'd feel a lot more comfortable if they could bring in some old guy that is able for 5/6 games to give Cunningham some time if he needs it. Ogunleye might be a good signing, Greg Ellis and Darren Howard are still unsigned and they might be worth a look.

 

[jmt57]

Training Camp Today: An inside look at outside linebackers - Extra Points - Boston.com

The Boston Globe takes a look at the most talked about position for the Pats in the 2010 training camp.

 

[Ring 6]

Mike Reiss looks at the Pats' current OLB position.

New England Patriots' biggest training camp question mark is their pass rush - ESPN Boston
Breaking down the OLB depth chart - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Is it me, or does anyone else feel that we shouldnt be concerned that a LB can play full time and not be worn out? Most of the LBs in the NFL (the better ones) are 3 down players, its not like his a 400lb NT who is too fat to not wear out.

 

[Ring 6]

We really have to hope that Cunningham is a fast learner by the looks of things. Personally I'd feel a lot more comfortable if they could bring in some old guy that is able for 5/6 games to give Cunningham some time if he needs it. Ogunleye might be a good signing, Greg Ellis and Darren Howard are still unsigned and they might be worth a look.

On the other hand, what do we lose by throwing him in there and getting his experience on the field instead of the sidelines?
It seems that many fans (not saying you) are saying that our other OLBs suck but Cunningham has a momentus effort to get on the field.
If the other guys suck so bad, who cares if Cunningham is out there making mistakes?

I think the objective solely looking at Cunningham should be that by the end of the season he should be an every down OLB. There is no doubt that he is expected to be good enough to play ahead of the guys we now have 'when he is ready'.
Wouldn't the best way to have him the most ready in January, be to get him 900 snaps in Sept-Dec?

I can't imagine the mental mistakes he might make in September will hurt us as much as having him experienced by January will help us.

 

[mgteich]

So we need a SOG (some old guy) instead of a JAG (just another guy)?

Seriously, I agree that we should bring in someone, especially if Burgess doesn't come back.

We really have to hope that Cunningham is a fast learner by the looks of things. Personally I'd feel a lot more comfortable if they could bring in some old guy that is able for 5/6 games to give Cunningham some time if he needs it. Ogunleye might be a good signing, Greg Ellis and Darren Howard are still unsigned and they might be worth a look.

 

[Ring 6]

So we need a SOG (some old guy) instead of a JAG (just another guy)?

Seriously, I agree that we should bring in someone, especially if Burgess doesn't come back.

I'm beginning to think that the best case is to go into the season with TBC and Cunningham starting at OLBs, playing the majority of the snaps, and having Ninkovich and Woods as the backups subbing in in the roles they can best handle.
Unless you replace Ninkovich or Woods with a better veteran.
I'm partly hoping Burgess just stays home.
I dont want to throw a retread like Greg Ellis in there.
I think that Ninko and Woods are decent backups, esp if they are limited to their best roles.
I am fine with growing paid of Cunningham in September to have him fully educated in the defense by playoff time.

The biggest worry of course, is that we would have horrible depth.

Not sure what we lose by 'throwing Cunningham to the wolves'.

 

[mgteich]

The answer is possibly a couple of games.

What you have suggesting should be tried if Cunningham is close to the other options. I would think that with Burgess available, Burgess would be the signifcantly better option.

So, yes the question is whether we can bring in veteran who can be expected to perform better than Ninkovich or Woods. Over 600 players will be cut in the next few weeks. Some players are available now. Some are available by way of trade. So, in the end, the question value and evaluation.

.
Not sure what we lose by 'throwing Cunningham to the wolves'.

 

[eagle eye]

Andy what happens if Cunningham goes down in week 2 with an injury and ends up out for 4 weeks?

Are you happen to depend on Woods and Ninkovich? I'm not.

 

[Ring 6]

The answer is possibly a couple of games.

What you have suggesting should be tried if Cunningham is close to the other options. I would think that with Burgess available, Burgess would be the signifcantly better option.

So, yes the question is whether we can bring in veteran who can be expected to perform better than Ninkovich or Woods. Over 600 players will be cut in the next few weeks. Some players are available now. Some are available by way of trade. So, in the end, the question value and evaluation.

You cant seriously feel that the difference between Cunningham as a rookie and Woods, Ninkovich or a guy off the scrap heap is going to cost us a couple of games all by itself.
I'm niot suggesting we play with 10. I'm suggesting we put the guy with the most talent on the field, even though he is a rookie, just like the other 31 teams do.
What will Burgess add in this equation? He isn't an OLB. I can't think that lining up as a DE in the sub and rushing the passer is something that requires a great learning curve, where he would be so much worse than the guy who got 5 sacks all year that he costs us games.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy what happens if Cunningham goes down in week 2 with an injury and ends up out for 4 weeks?

Are you happen to depend on Woods and Ninkovich? I'm not.

Well any player can get hurt.
Being afraid that Woods would have to play if Cunningham gets hurt doesnt sound like a good reason to start Woods ahead of him.
I said the depth would concern me, and I'd be all for bringing in competition for Woods and Ninkovich.

I'm not sure what your point is.
I say put Cunningham on the field.
If you dont your worst fear is realized and we choose your doomsday scenario.
I just cant see that there is a guy out there to pick up who will be more valuable to us than the experience Cunnigham gets.

Of course this assumes that Cunningham grasps the scheme, and has an OK camp. I'm not suggesting hand him the job ready or not, I'm saying the line where ready is drawn should be liberal.

 

[mgteich]

A) The most talented should play even if he is a rookie.

B) If we don't re-sign Burgess or anyone to replace him, Cunningham will most likely start.

C) It is not clear to me that a player cut by another team will not be able to make serious contribution.

D) Being a pass rusher for the patriots doesn't require a great learning curve??????????????
Please say that again tomorrow when you've reconsidered.

E) We are replacing Thomas and Burgess. Yes, I do believe that having Burgess COULD mean a couple of games. Obviously, this would not be the case if Cunningham was a solid player in his rookie year and participated in over 50% of the defensive reps. If Burgess isn't here, then Belichick will make it work. But this is not the kind of situation that Belichick allows. Perhaps Murrell will be counted on more than anyone originally thought.

You cant seriously feel that the difference between Cunningham as a rookie and Woods, Ninkovich or a guy off the scrap heap is going to cost us a couple of games all by itself.
I'm niot suggesting we play with 10. I'm suggesting we put the guy with the most talent on the field, even though he is a rookie, just like the other 31 teams do.
What will Burgess add in this equation? He isn't an OLB. I can't think that lining up as a DE in the sub and rushing the passer is something that requires a great learning curve, where he would be so much worse than the guy who got 5 sacks all year that he costs us games.

 

[Ring 6]

D) Being a pass rusher for the patriots doesn't require a great learning curve??????????????
Please say that again tomorrow when you've reconsidered.

Dont need tomorrow. I'm talking about lining up at DE and rushing the passer out of nickel and dime.
There is no scheme to consider, all you do is rush the passer.
Thats my point about Burgess, thats all he does. The concern of learning curve or knowing the system is minute in that role.
If Cunninghams job was to come in on 3rd and long, line up at DE and rush the passer,would you worry about learning curve? Well add 2nd and long and you've got Burgess.

 

[mgteich]

Burgess isn't an ex-patriot yet, but I suppose he can be given ex-patriot treatment. As an ex-patriot who didn't come to camp, he is a useless hasbeen. Of course, had he passed the physical and was a regular at practice, he would be a critical player in our defense.

This is similar to the attitude toward free agent from other teams. They re all scrap heap players, over 600 before Game One. Of course, if we sign them, they will all of a sudden be fine players.

QUOTE=AndyJohnson;1873221]

D) Being a pass rusher for the patriots doesn't require a great learning curve??????????????
Please say that again tomorrow when you've reconsidered.

Dont need tomorrow. I'm talking about lining up at DE and rushing the passer out of nickel and dime.
There is no scheme to consider, all you do is rush the passer.
Thats my point about Burgess, thats all he does. The concern of learning curve or knowing the system is minute in that role.
If Cunninghams job was to come in on 3rd and long, line up at DE and rush the passer,would you worry about learning curve? Well add 2nd and long and you've got Burgess.

 

[Ring 6]

A) The most talented should play even if he is a rookie.

B) If we don't re-sign Burgess or anyone to replace him, Cunningham will most likely start.

C) It is not clear to me that a player cut by another team will not be able to make serious contribution.

D) Being a pass rusher for the patriots doesn't require a great learning curve??????????????
Please say that again tomorrow when you've reconsidered.

E) We are replacing Thomas and Burgess. Yes, I do believe that having Burgess COULD mean a couple of games. Obviously, this would not be the case if Cunningham was a solid player in his rookie year and participated in over 50% of the defensive reps. If Burgess isn't here, then Belichick will make it work. But this is not the kind of situation that Belichick allows. Perhaps Murrell will be counted on more than anyone originally thought.

OLB/DE snaps in 2009

I will consider 840 full time because that is what Vrable played in 2008.

Thomas 544
TBC 665
Burgess 551
Ninko 127
Woods 207

Total 2094

If Cunningham is full time, and TBC is full time that leaves 400 snaps or so for the reserves, which is close to what they played last season.

So replacing Burgess and Thomas comes from Cunnigham plus a larger role for TBC, thereby 2 players play about 85% of the snaps each instead of 3 playing 55-60% each.

Not sure I'm selling this idea, but I dont think we have to look at replacing a 3man rotation if we can find 2 ful time players.
I'm just having a hard time thinking of who I saw playing that postion last year that I fear Cunningham growing pains and all would be a big dropoff from.