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Crabel's career apparently ends without him ever playing a single down in the regular season - unless he's being cut and then re-signed to a smaller contract. I doubt that is the case though.

realpatriots: Patriots officially announce the signing of Devin McCourty. Release LB Shawn Crable. #fb | boston.rssible.com

http://boston.rssible.com/2010/07/2...of-devin-mccourty-release-lb-shawn-crable-fb/
realpatriots: Patriots officially announce the signing of Devin McCourty. Release LB Shawn Crable. #fb
 
I have a really hard time believing that Burgess played that many snaps as a 3-4 LE. Maybe he had his hand down with the 3-4 personnel on the field, but that makes him a 4-3 DE. Those stats are saying that more than half the time, Burgess was on the field instead of Warren at LE in the 3-4, and that just seems unlikely in the base.

The numbers come from profootball focus. and the 55% number is the percentage of his snaps not team snaps. Didn't Warren get hurt near the end of the season? that could explain why burgess had a lot of snaps at LDE (3-4).
 
Ty Law was long gone. It was Asante partially, and Randall Gay and Hobbs. Not exactly the world's best CB trio.

I was refering more to the super bowl years when the defence was good.
 
The numbers come from profootball focus. and the 55% number is the percentage of his snaps not team snaps. Didn't Warren get hurt near the end of the season? that could explain why burgess had a lot of snaps at LDE (3-4).
Can you link those numbers, because they seem to be entirely different than what I saw, and I'm not aware that profootballfocus breaks down alignment.
 
I think your discrpancy is that most iof the alingments when Burgess is on the field are nickel or dime and you are categorizing them as 34 or 43.
For example, in the Jacksonville game, he is listed as a 'LB' on 20 plays but 0 of them are 34 or 43. They are all sub packages (or short yardage on 1 or 2). Whatever they listed him as is irrelevant because he was a sub package pass rusher. Call him a DE and call it a 3-3-5, call him a LB and its a 2-4-5. In some cases they call him ILB, in some there are no DL listed, like a 0-5-6.
Proffotballlfocus is a dubious source.
 
For example, in the Jacksonville game, he is listed as a 'LB' on 20 plays but 0 of them are 34 or 43. They are all sub packages (or short yardage on 1 or 2). Whatever they listed him as is irrelevant because he was a sub package pass rusher. Call him a DE and call it a 3-3-5, call him a LB and its a 2-4-5. In some cases they call him ILB, in some there are no DL listed, like a 0-5-6.
Proffotballlfocus is a dubious source.


I should have listed them as 3 man & 4 man lines, I'll edit the post (Edit: for some reason I can’t alter the original post only this one).

Is there a more reliable source other than re-watching all the games?
 
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So.......back to Alex Hall, can he compete? Crable was a question mark, but he was a high upside question mark IMO. Lots of ranginess and athleticism. We're looking pretty average without an early Cunningham surprise.
 
I should have listed them as 3 man & 4 man lines, I'll edit the post (Edit: for some reason I can’t alter the original post only this one).

Is there a more reliable source other than re-watching all the games?

Not really, but I can tell you that Burgess almost never lined up as an OLB in the 34 base. Only because I paid attention to it. I don't know a website that has the info, but Mike Reiss went back and watched the last 4 games and catalogued it, and it was posted here, maybe 2-3 months ago.
 
The numbers come from profootball focus. and the 55% number is the percentage of his snaps not team snaps. Didn't Warren get hurt near the end of the season? that could explain why burgess had a lot of snaps at LDE (3-4).

That makes more sense, thank you for the clarification.

Though it still seems high... but as you and Andy are arguing, it's likely a case of classification of position in certain formation.

No one is going to argue that Burgess is a 3-4 DE.
 
Ninkovich: 'Best opportunity of my life' - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston


This year, Ninkovich hopes to parlay his experiences from last season into the next step on any NFL player’s journey: a starting job. With the team thin at outside linebacker entering training camp, Ninkovich realizes the time could not be better for him to prove his worth.

“This is the best opportunity of my life,” Ninkovich said. “I’ve got to take it and run with it. It’s all on me.”

During the first full practice of training camp on Thursday morning, Ninkovich appeared to be well on his way to reaching his next goal, seeing reps opposite established veteran Tully Banta-Cain.

“This is the most opportunity with reps I’ve had,” noted Ninkovich, a five-year veteran who has not started a game in the NFL. “I was a little nervous and antsy when camp came because I knew I would have the opportunity.”

“I’m just grateful to be here and doing what I’m doing. I have to make the best of it.”
 
Not surprisingly, Mike Reiss had a lot of questions on the OLB position in his weekly chat session today. Chat: Chat with Mike Reiss - SportsNation - ESPN Boston


Q. After dissecting it all offseason and seeing the first practice, name the top three positions that appear to have weak depth.
A. I'd start with OLB. That position stood out to me today from a lack-of-depth standpoint. After that, it's more jumbled.

Q. Hey Mike, why not try to trade the disgruntled Mankins to Pittsburg for the disgruntled Lamarr Woodley? Both serve as a position of need for the other team, esspecially with the release of Crable yesterday.
A. I'd make that deal. Not sure Pittsburgh would.

Q. I honestly think, giving the oppurtunity, a guy like Ninkovich could definitely put up some numbers, seems like the guys who are fighting for the spots always produce because they want it that much more. Thoughts?
A. It was Ninkovich and Banta-Cain at OLB with the top group today. I also think Darius Butler and Patrick Chung could add a playmaking element to this defense, but of course, they don't play OLB.

Q. Mike, with the release of Crable, should we expect to see another OLB added to the roster for depth reasons, or competition in training camp?
A. The release of Crable, plus the no-show of Burgess, has the depth thin here. I wouldn't be surprised to see an addition there.

Q. How does Jermaine Cunningham look on the field?
A. This is a great opportunity for Cunningham given the release of Crable and the no-show of Burgess. I would like to see more of him in this contact-filled environment. I haven't seen enough at this point.

Q. Mike,Every reporter claimed that it was clear how much effort Shawn Crable had put into his workout during the off season. He looked every bit like McGinest. What went wrong? How could he have failed the conditioning test that athletes like Terrence Cody passes, albeit after two tries.
A. Reading between the lines, it sounds like Crable wasn't ready to work and didn't come to camp in condition. He was in the mix at June's mandatory minicamp. To be cut at the start of training camp, to me, is an indication that he didn't put in the time in the six weeks between the end of minicamp and the start of training camp.

Q. This morning you wrote "Belichick did not rule out a potential return for Crable. " If he was going to hold out hope that he could contribute wouldn't he have stayed on the PUP list? As a fan I have always held out hope for Crable to contribute, it seems he is not the 81st player in terms of depth and talent, so did Bill finally run out of patience for him to get healthy? Or is this a case of a player not taking his own conditioning seriously when left to his own devices as Teddy outlined earlier this month, reporting NOT in shape enough to pass muster, and got the hook from the coach? Seems this was not a medical decision but a coaching decision given the choice of the PUP list...
A. I thought Belichick was being kind when asked if it was a possibility that Crable could be back. Technically, it is a possibility. But I'd be surprised if he does return.

Q. Hey Mike, Tully Banta-Cain has been thrown out there as an obvious starter at outside linebacker largely due to his statistical performance last season (10 sacks). However, he also went 10 games without a sack and had 6.5 in 3 games against 2 of the worst pass protecting teams in the league (Bills and Jaguars). You've said before that the OLB position is pretty much up for grabs, so am I wrong in hoping he gets beat out for a starting job by a more consistant if less statistically flashy player?
A. I think Banta-Cain is best suited for sharing that role. One concern I would have is if he gets worn down on early downs and that takes away from what he does best -- rushing the passer. This, to me, ties into Jermaine Cunningham's development. They need Cunningham to rise up.

Q. do you see the pats going to a 4-3 base defense? their OLBs are weak to begin with and they have no depth at the position. they are stocked with ILBs and have good depth at DL. plus cunningham can play his natural position instead of having to convert to OLB.
A. I think they'll have the 4-3 as part of their overall package, but I still think they will be primarily a 3-4 at this time. Too early to change on the fly.

Q. Mike, with Burgess obviously considering retiring, especially not reporting to camp, I am concerned with the OLB position. It appears it just went from bad to worse. This was the whole problem last season, and now it 's happening all over. One area, the didn't address properly. Your thoughts?
A. It looks like the big question mark on the roster to me. It's why I thought they could have pursued Jason Taylor a bit harder. It's one practice and there is a long way to go, but clearly, this is the spot to watch as it looks quite thin.

Q. Think there's any chance the Patriots dangle one of their many draft picks to go after Merriman?
A. Hmmmm...Merriman doesn't strike me as their type of guy. Would fill the need, for sure, but something tells me they wouldn't go there.

Q. Mike, how do you play the 3-4 d with zero OLB. This is getting crazy to think about if Burgess retires. TBC is a 3rd down player. Who starts? Cunningham is a rookie and it's asking alot for him to step up. The OLB spot will cost them the season.
A. Fair point, Ryan. I think it's a big question mark. Since we're one practice into training camp, and the picture can always be altered, I'd let it play out before pushing the panic button. It reminds me of 2003. They had the huge hole at NT. They tried Jarvis Green there and it didn't work out. It's hard to play the 3-4 without an NT, and then they acquire Ted Washington. All of a sudden, what looked like a weakness became a strength.


Funny how so many looked down their noses at Burgess all offseason, but now that there's a hint he may not return this year the level of angst gets cranked way up.
 
Alex Hall was just released by the Eagles. He came over from the Browns. He has the height and weight of a Belichick OLB and is considered to be very athletic with decent pass rush skills.
Looks like the Pats tried to claim him, but the Giants got him thanks to their having a higher waiver claim (worse season last year.)

Twitter / Mike Reiss: According to @caplannfl, t ...

Mike Reiss said:
According to @caplannfl, the Patriots put in a waiver claim for OLB/DE Alex Hall (Eagles). But Hall was awarded to Giants.
 
Not surprisingly, Mike Reiss had a lot of questions on the OLB position in his weekly chat session today. Chat: Chat with Mike Reiss - SportsNation - ESPN Boston





Funny how so many looked down their noses at Burgess all offseason, but now that there's a hint he may not return this year the level of angst gets cranked way up.

I didnt think peope looked down their noses at him. If anything I thought the expectations were too high, expecting him to play on all downs instead of just in sub packages like last year.

Ultimately if he goes someone else will be in there rushing the passer (Cunningham, Ninkovich) and I don't think the difference will be enormous in either direction.
The real concern to me is that it saps our depth, not that it changes our nickel/dime pass rush much. Although I could argue that forcng cunningham into that role may be a good thing to help him develop
 
Funny how so many looked down their noses at Burgess all offseason, but now that there's a hint he may not return this year the level of angst gets cranked way up.

I've made my opinion about Burgess known. I just figure there's no sense in banging that drum when he's pondering retirement.
 
More on Burgess - the Globe is reporting that the Pats have placed him on the Did Not Report List.

Burgess placed on Did Not Report list - Extra Points - Boston.com

Veteran linebacker Derrick Burgess, who reportedly is mulling retirement, has been placed on the reserve/did not report list by the Patriots.

The designation means he does not count against the team's 80-man training camp roster limit.

Also, Sam Aiken, Ron Brace and Darnell Jenkins are on the team's non-football injury list, which is essentially the same as the active PUP list Wes Welker is on in terms of their being able to start practicing at any time. With other teams, players who are injured working out at another facility and/or not on their team's watch, are placed on the NFI list, though it is unknown right now if that is the case with Aiken, Brace and Jenkins.
 
With Crable being cut and Burgess being AWOL, the chances of Pierre Woods not only making the roster, but seeing significant playing time increases.

Woods Gets a shot to fill-in for missing Burgess by Danny Picard for NECN

Woods was working in Burgess’ usual DE/OLB spot in Friday’s first session of workouts. While he didn’t want to talk much about Burgess’ absence, he acknowledged that it is a chance for him to show what he’s got.

“I’m always going to try to take advantage of whatever opportunity that I have,” said Woods. “It’s whatever role the coach wants you to play, and you got to do it. That’s what you do. You don’t complain, you just keep going out there.”

Woods said pass consistency is his main focus right now, and that he believes everything else will fall into place. That “everything else” is what he learned while watching Burgess last season.

“Derrick is a pass-rush specialist,” said Woods. “He uses his hands well. He has a motor. And I mean, as veteran guy, and his stature, and the way he plays, you take that, and he plays with an attitude.”
 
Some more on the Burgess situation.

Patriots' Burgess is AWOL again
Defensive lineman Gerard Warren was a teammate of Burgess in Oakland in 2007 and '08. Being a former Raider means having seen it all, but even Warren was caught off guard when Burgess failed to report for work.

“A tad bit surprised,” said Warren, who hasn't spoken with his former/current teammate lately. “You know, whatever it is, it is. I wish him the best wherever he's at.”

Where Burgess, who turns 31 on Aug. 12 and signed a one-year contract for $1.5 million in May, isn't is here. At the moment.

That's bound to change in short order. This has the look of a guy who looked at the (lack of) competition at outside linebacker and surmised he could take his time getting here and still win a starting job.



Patriots’ Burgess was expected to play - The Boston Globe
Belichick did not sound happy about the situation.

“We expected him to be here. He’s not here,’’ Belichick said. “This type of situation certainly isn’t unprecedented. We’ll just deal with it going forward. I’m not exactly sure that I know all the information that I need to know, so that’s what it is for now. We’ll just take that day-by-day.


“Look, you hate to not have all of the players out there all of the time, but when that does happen — and it’s inevitable that it will happen for one reason or another — then that gives other players opportunities. The guys that have the opportunities to play have worked hard and are competitive and want to take advantage of it. Every player wants an opportunity, so the guys that get it, I think they are ready for it and they’ll have to take advantage of it and do the best they can.’’



Wait on for LB - BostonHerald.com

Meanwhile, Belichick spoke of a situation that “gives other players opportunities.”

Outside linebackers Pierre Woods and Rob Ninkovich are two players who figure to benefit if Burgess decides to stay home in Mississippi. Both could emerge in camp.

“I’m always going to try to take advantage of whatever opportunity I have,” Woods said. “It’s whatever role the coach wants you to play. You don’t complain. You just keep going out there.”

Ninkovich hit on his main goal: “The coaches need the confidence in their outside linebackers, so make sure you’re doing your job.”



PATRIOTS NOTEBOOK: Coach in the dark about absent Burgess - The Sun Chronicle Online - Sports
Belichick was more reserved Friday in stating what his expectations had been for Burgess entering this season.

"To compete on the team like the other 79 players that are here," he said. "My expectations are the same for every player - to come out there, be in good condition, work hard, do the best they can. That's what I expect everybody to do."

It's not known whether Burgess' absence, and subsequent reports that he is considering retirement, came as a surprise to Belichick. However, it's fair to speculate that the coach might not have been as quick to release the oft-injured Shawn Crable on Wednesday had he known that another member of his thin outside linebacking corps was not likely to show up.

"We'll see how it goes here," Belichick said when asked what plans he had to shore up the position. "Any time, look, you hate to not have all the players out there all the time, but when that does happen, and it's inevitable that it will happen for one reason or another, then that gives other players opportunities so the guys that have the opportunities to play I think have worked hard and are competitive and want to take advantage of it.
 
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