Our depleted secondary vs. Peyton & friends

[mgcolby]

they will have to scheme the devil out of the defense - and never, ever go man coverage.

Actually Man would be preferred by me at least, Manning has a tendency to carve up our zone. That 15-25 yard out route where the DB sits in the soft part of our zone has been a key staple to the Colt passing game over the years.

 

[Rob0729]

Good points and though I would like to share your optimism that we should be fine against the current Colts, I am afraid I don't have that much confidence on our D as of now. The Fins and the Bolts games rankle me a lot.

Let's discuss again after the game and see how our expectations/hopes/fears played out.

Other than the Chargers' game when did the secondary cost the Pats a game this year. The Dolphins beat the Pats on the ground, not the air. The Colts haven't shown the slightest sign of beating a team on the ground. In fact, they have one of the worst run offenses in the league. The Dolphins game has no bearing on what the Colts can do.

As for the Chargers, their passing offense is worlds better than the Colts' right now. Philip Rivers is playing much better than Peyton Manning right now. The Chargers may be the best passing offense the Pats face all year with big WRs who have better chances to out jump and fight for balls over our smaller DBs. Again, I don't know if it is the same.

It isn't as much as I have confidence in the Patriots DBs as much as I have watched Indy play this year. I feared Rivers and Cutler far more than I fear Manning right now. Manning is still injured and it has made him mortal added to the fact that Harrison has shown flashes of his age settling in.

 

[Rob0729]

I am worried about this game. The Colts will be treating it as their Super Bowl, cuz there is a good chance they won't even see the postseason.

Our Pats O-line is going to have to step up, Moss needs to pull in those catches, and our secondary needs a big night. I think we can win it, but it is a long shot. The crowd is going to be insane, the Colts electrified.

But they don't have BB. They have much, much worse than BB.

The Colts treated last night's game like the Super Bowl and they played the second half not a heck of a lot better than the Pats played in the Super Bowl last year. Anyone who thinks that the Colts didn't treat last night game as a game that is as big or bigger than the game vs. the Pats don't know what they are talking about. The Colts' season was almost on the line last night and they were playing for the division.

 

[D-Money]

The colts also have a terrible running game.Make them one dimensional and we might have a chance.It starts with a pass rush as well.I would be dissapointed if we get blown out again just like the chargers did to us earlier.

 

[mgcolby]

Wrote this yesterday, and last nights game did nothing to change my mind.

- Manning is working off the rust and has played better since the first two weeks, but honestly that isn't saying much.

- Harrison has lost a couple of steps and no longer demands a double coverage. He has a had a few moments, but he is clearly not close to what he used to be.

- Wayne is the real deal and their only consistent receiver.

- Gonzalez is far to inconsistent, drops easy passes, doesn't sit in the soft part (or opening) of the zone, doesn't make the tough catches etc... I can only imaging how frustrated Manning must be with him.

- Clark is injury prone and every time he takes a half way decent shot he leaves the field.

- Their line is a wreck, worse than ours when it comes to injuries, and they are struggling to give Manning time.

- And their run game sucks.

 

[bostonia3333]

This is not a good matchup for the Pats plain and simple. Even with Brady in there at 100%, this matchup would still be a tossup, with the Pats coming in at +2 pt underdogs. 30 plus points is needed to likely be competitive, and even that still wouldn't guarantee a victory. I think we are likely to encounter another buzzsaw like in SD. Hope I'm wrong

Pats should treat this game as a measuring stick to see where they stand at the midway pt. Not a must game from any sense, I think the Pats should play this game to "get insync" and further develop Cassel's game, which has shown solid progression over the weeks. How well can Cassel find open receivers against a very good pass rush? Hopefully he can develop some more rapport with Moss and establish some consistency with the NFL's best WR. Cassel is likely to get confused and rattled a bit, he should learn alot next week, I'll take that as a positive. I don't expect much from our defense, I am tired of writing about them.

 

[D-Money]

I disagree.Harrison is no longer that threat that he was.I think the colts will be desperated for a win but this team isnt the same colts team that it was.They will get Bob Sanders back which could be huge.

 

[PatsFan37]

This is a new defense facing the Colts. Seymour is healthy and will be a tough match for Ugoh, as will Thomas, who was playing ILB this time last year. Mayo and Guyton provide a lot of speed at ILB and Meriweather is a completely different player. Few teams run well against the Pats, their weakness is the big play.

As always, the key is pressure and we saw good pressure last week. The Colts are coming off a Monday night loss to a tough division rival with some big strong guys on both lines. They'll be tired. If Seymour, Thomas and Vrabel get a few hits on Peyton, the Colts will look vulnerable.

When Peyton is under pressure, he underthrows his passes. Hobbs and Meriweather are good at gathering them in. I wouldn't say the secondary is depleted so much as it lacks experienced depth (aside from Lewis Sanders). But it's a fast ball-hawking group. And you've got to love their intensity.

The Pats D is starting to play with speed and confidence. I think we'll see that on Sunday night.

 

[Rob0729]

This is not a good matchup for the Pats plain and simple. Even with Brady in there at 100%, this matchup would still be a tossup, with the Pats coming in at +2 pt underdogs. 30 plus points is needed to likely be competitive, and even that still wouldn't guarantee a victory. I think we are likely to encounter another buzzsaw like in SD. Hope I'm wrong

Pats should treat this game as a measuring stick to see where they stand at the midway pt. Not a must game from any sense, I think the Pats should play this game to "get insync" and further develop Cassel's game, which has shown solid progression over the weeks. How well can Cassel find open receivers against a very good pass rush? Hopefully he can develop some more rapport with Moss and establish some consistency with the NFL's best WR. Cassel is likely to get confused and rattled a bit, he should learn alot next week, I'll take that as a positive. I don't expect much from our defense, I am tired of writing about them.

How is this not a good match up? Is it the Colts' lack of a pass defense? maybe it is the fact that they have no running game? Could it be that Manning has been inconsistent all season and a lot of his passes are off?

I do agree that the Pats shouldn't try to win the game, but just use it to get in tune for the rest of the season. They have lost the game already so why bother. Are you serious?

If Brady was still playing, the Pats would be a two TD favorite. If Kerry Collins can do damage vs. the Colts, image what Brady could do.

 

[chrisfx811]

Turnovers & timely defense allowed the Titans to beat the Colts last night. The 'vaunted' Tennessee run game really didn't hurt the Colts much until late in the game after the turnovers put Indy in bad positions.

Manning's timing is off. He's underthrowing guys he used to hit on the money. Clark is not playing up to his old standards. The absence of Addai is effecting their whole offense it appears.

To me, it seems like the biggest liability for Indy is whomever is calling the plays.

I always feel like the Colts have success moving the ball against BB's defenses because of the way they are designed. We don't seem to get many 3 & outs, and it appears we give up chunks of yardage against Manning's Colts all too often. This year, it just seems like Manning isn't able to close the deal as successfully as he used to in previous years.

 

[pwes]

They'll be desperate. I'm almost expecting something funky to happen next week. They need to win this game or they can kiss the post season goodbye. That said they ARE an average offense. I've been watching and honestly they do not scare me. I'm more worried about our offence against their defense than the other way around. I'm hoping that the Titans game has exhausted them enough so tehy play even worse when we head to Indy.

 

[D-Money]

My concern is still Cassel and how he will play in a hostile environment.They need to put up points.Our offense is clearly better then the titans.

 

[Rob0729]

Turnovers & timely defense allowed the Titans to beat the Colts last night. The 'vaunted' Tennessee run game really didn't hurt the Colts much until late in the game after the turnovers put Indy in bad positions.

Manning's timing is off. He's underthrowing guys he used to hit on the money. Clark is not playing up to his old standards. The absence of Addai is effecting their whole offense it appears.

To me, it seems like the biggest liability for Indy is whomever is calling the plays.

I always feel like the Colts have success moving the ball against BB's defenses because of the way they are designed. We don't seem to get many 3 & outs, and it appears we give up chunks of yardage against Manning's Colts all too often. This year, it just seems like Manning isn't able to close the deal as successfully as he used to in previous years.

I have to say I questioned Fisher's and Heimerdinger's decision not to run LenDale White more. He didn't run well his first two plays, but he is one of those big bruising RBs that can really beat up a smaller defense like the Colts. Even if he wasn't all that effective early, he would have soften then up for later in the game. I guess they didn't need to with how bad the Colts' pass defense played in the second half.

I thought the Colts could move us in the past because of Manning. Manning, like Brady, could almost will a timely first down when needed based on his sure talent. With his knee still clearly not 100% I don't think he can do that.

 

[Rob0729]

My concern is still Cassel and how he will play in a hostile environment.They need to put up points.Our offense is clearly better then the titans.

If the Colts' defense plays like it did last night, I don't think that is a problem. Their pass rush was pretty good early, but it disappeared as time went along and their secondary is suspect.

 

[mgteich]

spoken like a redsox fan
Nothing matters other than the win. The rams are a terrible team with a terrible passing game. If you are not concerned, then that's fine.

Who won that Rams game?

 

[mgcolby]

This is not a good matchup for the Pats plain and simple. Even with Brady in there at 100%, this matchup would still be a tossup, with the Pats coming in at +2 pt underdogs. 30 plus points is needed to likely be competitive, and even that still wouldn't guarantee a victory. I think we are likely to encounter another buzzsaw like in SD. Hope I'm wrong

Pats should treat this game as a measuring stick to see where they stand at the midway pt. Not a must game from any sense, I think the Pats should play this game to "get insync" and further develop Cassel's game, which has shown solid progression over the weeks. How well can Cassel find open receivers against a very good pass rush? Hopefully he can develop some more rapport with Moss and establish some consistency with the NFL's best WR. Cassel is likely to get confused and rattled a bit, he should learn alot next week, I'll take that as a positive. I don't expect much from our defense, I am tired of writing about them.

How is a 3-4 team, who has played 1 solid football game out of 7 a measuring stick for us? They have been downright terrible this season, I don't know how else to say it. Are they the Bengals or the Lions? No! But they could easily be 1-5 competing for the number one draft pick. They got two gifts. One from Sage Rosenfels and another from a Vikings team who played as though they were leading by 30 the entire 2nd half.

A very good pass rush? They are 28th in the league in sacks. They are 2nd in the league in passing yards allowed (178 ypg), but that probably has something to do with the fact that they are 26th in the league against the run (144 ypg)

The NFL's best WR needs help out his young QB and start catching those balls that him on the hands in stride!

 

[Rob0729]

How is a 3-4 team, who has played 1 solid football game out of 7 a measuring stick for us? They have been downright terrible this season, I don't know how else to say it. Are they the Bengals or the Lions? No! But they could easily be 1-5 competing for the number one draft pick. They got two gifts. One from Sage Rosenfels and another from a Vikings team who played as though they were leading by 30 the entire 2nd half.

A very good pass rush? They are 28th in the league in sacks. They are 2nd in the league in passing yards allowed (178 ypg), but that probably has something to do with the fact that they are 26th in the league against the run (144 ypg)

The NFL's best WR needs help out his young QB and start catching those balls that him on the hands in stride!

Yeah, is there another Colts team that I don't know about? You know one that can put a lot of pressure on the passer and can torch secondaries on a consistent basis? Because the Manning led Colts aren't that team.

 

[mgcolby]

Yeah, is there another Colts team that I don't know about? You know one that can put a lot of pressure on the passer and can torch secondaries on a consistent basis? Because the Manning led Colts aren't that team.

One of the meathead announcers from last week said the Rams shouldn't play the helmets, but the players wearing that helmet.

Some folks in this thread are still looking at the helmet and its history prior to this season, not the actual production or play by the players wearing that helmet this season.

 

[PatsDeb]

This could get real ugly real early, especially if Hobbs is out. What do you suppose BB has up his sleeve to attempt containing Wayne, Harrison, et al?

I was thinking the same thing as I watched the Tenn secondary bat away at least three long passes because they were in perfect position. We just don't have that. The thing we do have is PRESSURE, PRESSURE AND PRESSURE Manning some more. Indy did a good job early keeping Haynesworth et al off of Manning for the first half, then they got tired. Until then, though, the Tenn backfield did a good job of blanketing the receivers and knocking down Manning's throws, which were not as crisp as usual. Think BB can get our rookies to be able to stick to Harrison (a shell of his former self) and Reggie Wayne like glue? This game is scary and fascinating at the same time. I think Indy looked good in the 1st half and wore out in the 2nd half, on both sides of the ball. If we can keep it close until half time and then continue to pound, I think we can win.

 

[Rob0729]

I was thinking the same thing as I watched the Tenn secondary bat away at least three long passes because they were in perfect position. We just don't have that. The thing we do have is PRESSURE, PRESSURE AND PRESSURE Manning some more. Indy did a good job early keeping Haynesworth et al off of Manning for the first half, then they got tired. Until then, though, the Tenn backfield did a good job of blanketing the receivers and knocking down Manning's throws, which were not as crisp as usual. Think BB can get our rookies to be able to stick to Harrison (a shell of his former self) and Reggie Wayne like glue? This game is scary and fascinating at the same time. I think Indy looked good in the 1st half and wore out in the 2nd half, on both sides of the ball. If we can keep it close until half time and then continue to pound, I think we can win.

It's not like the Pats secondary are out of position on every play and can't do the same thing that the Tennessee secondary has done. Players like Hobbs, O'Neal, Meriweather, etc. have made similiar plays this year.