Now that he's signed, do we trade Welker?

[PATSYLICIOUS]

 

[Off The Grid]

It just gets me going when people are all "well study the game like I do". Please. I've watched/played alot of football in my life. Welker is a GREAT and RARE talent... and in the right situations (given his situation here) he will continue to blossom and put up godly numbers.

Seeing as the trend right now is big fast outside receivers (given all the penalties and suspect pass defenses), I dont see as team coming out and forefitting top picks/cash for welker... Therefore, No I wouldn't make the trade, now is not the time- it may never be the time at this point.

Your cheese has LEFT the cracker, my friend!!

 

[Reckedtrek]

Great example of why "stats are for losers". Edelman is such a horrible receiver that in his rookie year, playing a position that he's never played before, at any level. Edelman somehow managed to produce the 2nd most yards of any Patriot rookie WR in the BB era. Only Deion Branch, who had many more snaps and looks, gained 84 more yds. And if you include the playoff game, he gained more yds. How about THEM stats.

Here's the situation. In the ONLY time he's had to get regular snaps as the slot receiver, Edelman produced, despite the fact he never played WR before. It would be hard to believe that 2 years later, he isn't a better receiver than he was in his first years.

The point is Edelman plays behind the WR who has been the most productive receiver in the league during his time in the the league, but we DO know, that in the one time he had to get some regular snaps at the position he produced. The fact is that neither you or I don't know how good or bad Edelman would be if he took most of the snaps at slot receiver. We just have a short history to give us an indication....and based on that small sample, its likely he would

The facts state that he has had ONE good season and that was 3 seasons ago. The rest of your argument is based on speculation. If he was so great, BB would find a way to use him at WR, pure and simple. The rest of the NFL has tape on him now. It's pretty simple to see when you aren't in love with the guy.

Edelman is grossly overrated on this board and the Edelman fanboys can't handle it when someone uses facts to prove the point.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[BeanTownPatriot]

You didn't watch a single Patriots game all season, did you?

No not one single game! Didn't even make use of my season tickets at all.

 

[BeanTownPatriot]

Thats the problem with some "patriots" fans... snobby, pompus jackasses. "If you can't see it my way, you MUST be a pink hat fan". Sure sure lol . I don't know the game at all, never watched it, I just come on here and give my opinion for no good reason.. I don't follow this team at all.

I come here to bow down to some of you geneiouses who obviously share the same mind and vision of Belichick which explains a whole lot in some of your responses.

 

[Marqui]

Holy hell. Let me get my calculator... average $16MM/yr. Honestly, I'd rather have two Welkers than one Calvin, at that price.

You're either overrating Welker or underrating Johnson.

 

[JackBauer]

You're either overrating Welker or underrating Johnson.

Nah. It's not unreasonable, given the injury hedge.

 

[patsderoer]

You're either overrating Welker or underrating Johnson.

Johnson barely overtook Welker in yards in the last game of the season, in a game were Detroit and GB played no defense(and GB was resting starters).

2 1.5 k receivers >>> 1 1.6k receiver.

 

[Deus Irae]

No not one single game! Didn't even make use of my season tickets at all.

Given your earlier comments, this wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Marqui]

Johnson barely overtook Welker in yards in the last game of the season, in a game were Detroit and GB played no defense(and GB was resting starters).

2 1.5 k receivers >>> 1 1.6k receiver.

You must be one of those fantasy football guys.

 

[RayClay]

All sentiment aside, this is the opposite of the Seymour situation someone mentioned.

Although we might have missed Seymour in a crucial time, at the time and even in the long run, it probably works in our favor.

Seympur had no incentive to keep his contract demands affordable. If anything, he gets more glory and less slugging out with double teams in a different defense.

He's certainly worth as much to any team as to us, 6'6" athletic tackle ends are going to make any line better.

So, that's a lot of dough to sign, a position where guys wear down and that 1st rounder, at the time, looked like a top ten.

Welker? A 5'9" receiver, 31 years old, recent leg injury, mostly a slot/safety valve guy on most teams.

He's way overachieved based on a simpatico with Brady, like Coates had with Bledsoe.

He's way more valuable to us than he is to another team. It's in his interest to make a deal here and in the teams interest to lock him up.

Just like the draft, these guys aren't widgets from an assembly line. Welker makes Brady much better and likely wouldn't replicate that somewhere else at this stage of his career.

Look at Branch. even with injuries and a lost step, he still caught about 50 balls the last two years, as good or better than the "prime years" at Seattle.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

With Sey, right or wrong the Pats clearly had no intention to re-sign him. With Welker, they've already offered him new contracts, slapped a franchise tag on him, and still working on a new deal to keep him a Patriot. He is in their future plans, totally different situations. Question is will it be 1 year or 3-4 years.

 

[Gronkandez]

No not one single game! Didn't even make use of my season tickets at all.

It's not necessarily that you don't know anything about football, it's more about your posting style. There are a bunch of steady veterans here who are the core group of posters that have to deal with new posters signing up and spewing ideas that aren't well thought out.

If you don't want to get such negative responses I would recommend for you to take a step back and pick your spots instead of repeatedly just posting a bunch of stuff.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Now that Welker's signed, I think we should all have a shot of whiskey and pray that he retires a Patriot:americaflag:

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Seymour and even Milloy were tough assessments for Bill. Those were supposed to be his guys and yet they didn't ever fully embrace all in - just sort of hugged it for a while. Both had shown a troubing capacity to underperform their contracts - Milloy possibly due to complacency after just one ring and Seymour as a result of injury - while still maintaining an insistence on being paid at the top of their position. Ty did that too, but he also delivered until the injury and wasn't the locker room presence the other two were so that simply came down to a cap decision (made easier after the 2004 lis franc injury). That's why Bill kept trying to reel him back in for a couple of years while he never looked back after walking away from Seymour and Milloy.

Seymour wasn't nearly as potentially disruptive or negative as Lawyer had the potential to be, so absent the Oakland offer he probably would have played out the string on the 3 year extension. But that extension was both a compromise and a test at the time it was negotiated (as opposed to a 6-7 year deal) and Richard didn't pass it. So given the opportunity to move on for first round value was a no brainer. They were never going to extend him. Even Vrabel or Willie aren't valid comparisons. Because again, unlike Wes, they were no longer at the top of their games and probably not as accountable in that regard as Bill would like and like Sey and Lawyer each had the capacity to be negative locker room presences. Not sure Asante is a valid comparison either since he'd barely flashed before they had to tag him and he didn't play all that well once they did. And he was always something of a concern not so much in the locker room (because he was a loner) but because he butted heads with coaches to some extent because of the chip on his shoulder concerning his perception of what he was vs. theirs. And he was pretty rigid about position versatility...it was starting LCB or nothing. Same issues that eventually led Philly to move on.

 

[mayoclinic]

CBS Sports' Pat Kirwan chimes in on Welkers's productivity and suggests a 3-year deal worth $25M:

Welker's smart to avoid holdout, now Patriots should reward him - NFL - CBSSports.com News, Rumors, Scores, Stats, Fantasy

I would think the Pats would jump at that. Not so sure WW would.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Another former personnel guy albeit for a more conservative bunch in GB, Brandt posted his ideas yesterday opining a 4 year $38M or even 5 year $45M deal wouldn't be out of the question. I think that might be a tad high. It's all about the guaranteed money and Wes should get somewhere in the $20-24M range. Of course Brandt seemed to grasp that Wes is JUST 31 this month, while Pat seems to think he's already 32...same problem Gresh seemed to be having with formulating a deal...so maybe that's the problem some are having with the concept of a deal.

 

[bruinator]

I say we trade the OP.

 

[Ring 6]

Most of our Scoring came from Our Tightends... JUST SAYING. Infact, most teams backed off from welker giving him all the room to put up the stats he did and concentrated on taking away Gronk as best as they could because they knew Welker wasn't going to kill them on the scoreboard... JUST SAYING.

You are kidding right?
Welker had the 19th highest receiving yards total in NFL history. Only 2 active WRs have ever had a season with more, and one was Calvin Johnson last year. Welker had 1 yard less than Jerry Rices 2nd best season of his career.
You cannot seriously think that defenses decided to let him hurt them as badly as Jerry Rice hurt defenses in all but his best season of his career, because they thought it was no big deal.

 

[Ring 6]

Very interesting analysis, that may very well hold a lot of water.

I am still under the impression that there isn't as much reason to believe that we'll actually see enough of a diminished skillset for what the team is asking him to do here; although some may agree or disagree.

Not suggesting that #83 isn't a great athelete, just that the slot position isn't going to demand as much athleticism as the outside WR's will, as far as losing a step or two. I feel that Welker's bread and butter is about (in order):

1. The ability to properly read the defense and be on the same page as TFB. This skill is certainly NOT going to diminish.

2. The ability to properly take a hit and bounce back--although I also have noticed at times that he knows when to go down too, and that may save him from some unnecessary hits over the next few yrs.

3. The ability to have good enough hands to make the grab, which should not diminish over the next 3 yrs.

4. The ability to put a juke move or two on the defender. This would likely be the 2nd most likely to diminish skill and worry, behind bouncing back from the hits.

5. The ability to properly run down the field for 5-10-15 yds on the majority of the plays. I would think we're safe here.

The wildcard of course is the ability to take more hits than the average guy like Larry Fitzgerald/Calvin Johnson, but there have also been some RB's who continue to play past the age of 33-34, so I think we're good with another 3 yrs in my opinion.

You really left out whatseparates Welker from every other WR in the league, and that is his ablity to get in and out of cuts quicker than anyone.
For some reason people want to diminsh Welkers skills because he catches passes 7 yards downfield instead of 11. His quickness, agility and crispness in terms of running routes and getting open and being uncoverable is unmatched in the NFL.
You simply do not get 1 yard from Jerry Rices 2nd best YARDAGE total of his career, because you are an OK who isn't anything special but gets thrown to a lot and could be replaced by a guy who caught 11 passes in 2 years as much of this board wants to believe.