My $0.02 on the crowd

[Ring 6]

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/139247-my-0-02-crowd.html#post1058746


No. You didn't. Are you interested in debating like I am, or are you interested in being dishonest and calling names? Seems like something a scumbag would do...

Stating that I do not need Tom Brady's opinion to make a moral judgment is exactly answering your question about his comments.
First, I have said at least twice that it is assinine to assume that Bradys response after winning a championship to a reporter asking about the SOME fans booing is an honest forthrigt answer. We know Brady as much as BB answers media questions with the company line not his true feelings.
Secondly, my judgment of the character of someone who conducts himself in a certain manner has nothing to do with what Tom Brady thinks about it.
I do not know Tom Brady personally, I do not have knowledge of his character, morality,etc. I will not base my opinions on character on what Tom Brady said (especially to the media,because I dont believe it anyway) to a reporter. He is a great QB, not my moral compass.

 

[CheerforTom]

You watch it on t.v. for free. I never said anything about the NFL not making money. If you read properly you would see that I said "mutually beneficial." Yes I quoted the Simpsons because it's analogous to this situation; you being comic book guy and me being Bart (in case you couldn't figure it out). I didn't quote it to "prove my point," I quoted it as a humorous exmple of how stupid and demanding the average consumer (you) is.

Again, the NFL entertains you and advertising pays the NFL. You do nothing for the team except occasionally buy a ticket. Yes, there are millions of you, which should put into perspective how much your idiotic displeasure with them actually means.

Your logic simply doesn't work, you aren't listening to me. It isn't as simple as 'we get entertainment from NFL, the NFL gets money from other people'. Other people pay the NFL money solely on the condition that people watch it. This is how advertising works.

The reason the NFL does far better than, say, the NHL is that they have an excellent deal with the networks that brings them lucrative amounts of money. This would not be possible if people weren't watching the NFL on TV. The NFL needs us far more than we need them. The fact that we like the product they offer just makes the deal a good one for both sides.

It's amazing to me how the people arguing against booing are also the ones calling everyone names, belittling them the best they can and assuming they're terrible people. The team we love (we, not just you) are these untouchable golden gods but your fellow fans are just pieces of dirt. Stop being five years old.

 

[CheerforTom]

Stating that I do not need Tom Brady's opinion to make a moral judgment is exactly answering your question about his comments.
First, I have said at least twice that it is assinine to assume that Bradys response after winning a championship to a reporter asking about the SOME fans booing is an honest forthrigt answer. We know Brady as much as BB answers media questions with the company line not his true feelings.
Secondly, my judgment of the character of someone who conducts himself in a certain manner has nothing to do with what Tom Brady thinks about it.
I do not know Tom Brady personally, I do not have knowledge of his character, morality,etc. I will not base my opinions on character on what Tom Brady said (especially to the media,because I dont believe it anyway) to a reporter. He is a great QB, not my moral compass.

So Hobbs can be honest but Brady can't? If Brady was trying to do the BB neutral don't give any answers thing he would have just said "some people get rowdy". He validated the action and you know it.

So what you're saying is that you disagree with Tom Brady? That's all you ever had to say. You're avoiding saying this because you know how it will look. I'm saying you haven't answered because three times now you've just sidestepped like crazy.

 

[Wildo7]

Your logic simply doesn't work, you aren't listening to me. It isn't as simple as 'we get entertainment from NFL, the NFL gets money from other people'. Other people pay the NFL money solely on the condition that people watch it. This is how advertising works.

The reason the NFL does far better than, say, the NHL is that they have an excellent deal with the networks that brings them lucrative amounts of money. This would not be possible if people weren't watching the NFL on TV. The NFL needs us far more than we need them. The fact that we like the product they offer just makes the deal a good one for both sides.

It's amazing to me how the people arguing against booing are also the ones calling everyone names, belittling them the best they can and assuming they're terrible people. Stop being five years old.

I know how advertising works. The only five year olds are the ones who boo teams that have been to the superbowl 4 times in the last 7 years at the end of a 21 game win streak. More people watch the NFL, the fact that the NFL needs fans for advertising dollars doesn't mean you as an individual (1 out of millions) have any right to make demands of the team or boo them. watch or don't watch, they'll be just fine with you off the bandwagon.

In terms of an investment, the time you've dedicated personally to watching the advertisements is so far outweighed by what the team has given you in return makes you sound like a complete jackass to start booing and whining when they have one bad day. Not to mention my original point that if you think booing accomplishes anything you are just not a very bright person.

 

[CheerforTom]

The only five year olds are the ones who boo teams that have been to the superbowl 4 times in the last 7 years at the end of a 21 game win streak. More people watch the NFL, the fact that the NFL needs fans for advertising dollars doesn't mean you as an individual (1 out of millions) have any right to make demands of the team or boo them. watch or don't watch, they'll be just fine with you off the bandwagon.

In terms of an investment, the time you've dedicated personally to watching the advertisements is so far outweighed by what the team has given you in return makes you sound like a complete jackass to start booing and whining when they have one bad day. Not to mention my original point that if you think booing accomplishes anything you are just not a very bright person.

Alright man, you're right. I'm a jackass and the Patriots'll be happy to have me off the bandwagon. I'm done "debating" with you. Thanks for allowing me to see the wisdom of your ways.

And since you didn't answer me (I'm guessing you didn't see it through your blind rage) I'll assume that's you in your signature, which I've pretty much been doing all along given the giant scowl on his face.

 

[Ring 6]

Why do you get to say what they meant by it?

Or are you commenting on the effect it had (on the players)? Because Hobbs said that he didn't like it, but Brady disagreed. That tells me there isn't one real answer here and people should be allowed to do what they want. Not that all people who boo are "immature, disrespectful scumbags".

Remember, you're arguing in favor of 'booing is bad' (correct me if I'm wrong), I'm arguing NOT that 'booing is good' but 'people should be able to do what they want in this instance without being disrespected by other people'.

I am, have been, and will continue to be talking about the lack of character exhibited by the people who booed.
I dont think we need a definition. I don't think we need to poll players.
I think that it is evident that someone who will boo a team that has been as successful for as long as basically any franchise in NFL for TRAILING AT HALFTIME of a game that would be their first loss in 22 reg season games and drop them to 2-1 lacks character.
Whatever you think booing means, it is clearly derogatory, clearly a statement that I DO NOT SUPPORT YOU RIGHT NOW, and the timing of it was thoughtless.

 

[Wildo7]

Alright man, you're right. I'm a jackass and the Patriots'll be happy to have me off the bandwagon. I'm done "debating" with you. Thanks for allowing me to see the wisdom of your ways.

And since you didn't answer me (I'm guessing you didn't see it through your blind rage) I'll assume that's you in your signature, which I've pretty much been doing all along given the giant scowl on his face.

Why do you need to ask whats in my signature? It's a Jets fan with a piece of cheesecake on his head. The fact that you don't see the humor in it makes me think that if you were a Jets fan you'd be that guy. And yes, the Pats would be happy to have people who boo at the drop of the hat anything that doesn't go their way off of the bandwagon, as would I.

 

[CheerforTom]

I am, have been, and will continue to be talking about the lack of character exhibited by the people who booed.
I dont think we need a definition. I don't think we need to poll players.
I think that it is evident that someone who will boo a team that has been as successful for as long as basically any franchise in NFL for TRAILING AT HALFTIME of a game that would be their first loss in 22 reg season games and drop them to 2-1 lacks character.
Whatever you think booing means, it is clearly derogatory, clearly a statement that I DO NOT SUPPORT YOU RIGHT NOW, and the timing of it was thoughtless.

Fine, fair enough. All of a sudden I'm really tired of debating this. I'm not even a person who booed and I've still been called more names and treated worse in this thread than I've ever been at my time here.

If I was a Jets troll I'd understand, but I love the Patriots. "The best fans in the world?" Apparently only to the team, not to each other.

 

[Ring 6]

So Hobbs can be honest but Brady can't? If Brady was trying to do the BB neutral don't give any answers thing he would have just said "some people get rowdy". He validated the action and you know it.

So what you're saying is that you disagree with Tom Brady? That's all you ever had to say. You're avoiding saying this because you know how it will look. I'm saying you haven't answered because three times now you've just sidestepped like crazy.

I have answered 3 times. I dont care what Tom Brady said. I dont care what Ellis Hobbs said either. Neither of their opinions would have any impact on my moral judgment of those actions. How can I possibly say it more clearly than I already have.
If you keep this up I am going to have to make something up, and keep saying you said it. Sooner or later people will think you did, I answered the question every time you asked it, please stop asking it.

As far as Bradys comment, no, it is not a validation.
The PAts won a championship, all was well, what did you want him to do, say "Yeah, those idiots are ungrateful?" If he believed it you know he wouldnt say it. It is very likely he downplayed it. He typically makes self-effacing comments. He says things all the time like we were playing badly we didnt deserve to be in the game thanks to the defense we were. Do you really think he means they suck.

 

[Wildo7]

I'm not even a person who booed and I've still been called more names and treated worse in this thread than I've ever been at my time here.

what do you do for a living? There's a chance I've indirectly given money to your company and if so I have the right to call you names and toilet paper your house.

 

[Ring 6]

Fine, fair enough. All of a sudden I'm really tired of debating this. I'm not even a person who booed and I've still been called more names and treated worse in this thread than I've ever been at my time here.

If I was a Jets troll I'd understand, but I love the Patriots. "The best fans in the world?" Apparently only to the team, not to each other.

Come on, that is the lamest passive-aggressive crap ive ever seen.
You argue tooth and nail, then when you have nothing left you don't want to talk any more and feel like you were treated mean.
I have not called you names. YOU started out by disagreeing with me. I am simply defending my position that you have come here and tried to rip apart.
Understand. I MADE A STATEMENT, and the rest has been YOU TELLING ME MY OPINION IS WRONG. How can you possibly act like a victim?
Very weak.

 

[Pats726]

I;m just jumping in here...and haven't read the whole thread..nor at this point do I see a total need to do that.
I do think people have the right to boo and to leave..if they wish THAT is quite an obvious one. On the other hand, the fact that people leave or are booing I think says a lot about their character. That to me is teh issue...what it says. The booing is a visceral thing..what they are seeing..a reaction in time..but why boo?? What else is one saying by booing?? Booiing just the performance OR booing the team, the organization, what this team has done? What does that say about being a "fan"? One loves the team..but booing it? A bit of schizophrenia? Why is it that many fans would not boo? Is one who booed and left less of a fan?? (I think so...most definitely...)

 

[CheerforTom]

Come on, that is the lamest passive-aggressive crap ive ever seen.
You argue tooth and nail, then when you have nothing left you don't want to talk any more and feel like you were treated mean.
I have not called you names. YOU started out by disagreeing with me. I am simply defending my position that you have come here and tried to rip apart.
Understand. I MADE A STATEMENT, and the rest has been YOU TELLING ME MY OPINION IS WRONG. How can you possibly act like a victim?
Very weak.

You're still assuming. You're assuming I have "nothing left" and I'm using the "treatment" as an excuse. Read what guys like Wildo have said to me in every post. You aren't the only one I'm talking to in this thread and you aren't the one who has me fed up. If you aren't reading the entire thread here how can you be moderating this entire board?

I agree that I came here disagreeing with you. I'm sorry if I was too strong with that (really) and the honest truth is at this point I regret it because it's changed my enjoyment level of patsfans.com, a site I visit every day. What I've tried to do is to show you how people who boo may not actually be the terrible scum of the earth you're painting them as.

I'm not trying to act like a victim. I'm frustrated with the level of discussion on this board, and if you're still going to get on my case for that you need to do some serious thinking about how much you're allowing yourself to see.

 

[AtivanPatsFan]

This entire thread is hilarious. I've never seen fans be more holier-than-thou to fellow fans in my entire life. Undignified scumbag? And you are a moderator?

 

[Ring 6]

You're still assuming. You're assuming I have "nothing left" and I'm using the "treatment" as an excuse. Read what guys like Wildo have said to me in every post. You aren't the only one I'm talking to in this thread and you aren't the one who has me fed up. If you aren't reading the entire thread here how can you be moderating this entire board?

I agree that I came here disagreeing with you. I'm sorry if I was too strong with that (really) and the honest truth is at this point I regret it because it's changed my enjoyment level of patsfans.com, a site I visit every day. What I've tried to do is to show you how people who boo may not actually be the terrible scum of the earth you're painting them as.

I'm not trying to act like a victim. I'm frustrated with the level of discussion on this board, and if you're still going to get on my case for that you need to do some serious thinking about how much you're allowing yourself to see.

How do you get frustrated with the level of discussion that you are contributing to?
Just stop responding. If it is frustrating, why keep it up?

 

[CheerforTom]

How do you get frustrated with the level of discussion that you are contributing to?
Just stop responding. If it is frustrating, why keep it up?

I'm not going to keep it up anymore. You thought that meant I had "nothing left", remember?

As for the "that you are contributing to", I'm most certainly not calling anyone names or insults if that's what you're implying. If that's the case it's pretty easy to finally have had enough when guys like Wilco just don't stop.

 

[muzz]

I think we really need a Moderator to lock this thread.....




Nevermind.......:disagreement:

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not going to keep it up anymore. You thought that meant I had "nothing left", remember?

As for the "that you are contributing to", I'm most certainly not calling anyone names or insults if that's what you're implying. If that's the case it's pretty easy to finally have had enough when guys like Wilco just don't stop.

My point is you argued heatedly for a very long time, then said you were frustrated.
You contributed to the argument that got you frustrated. Its not like it was done to you. If you felt it got out of hand, then back away. Thats all.

 

[CheerforTom]

My point is you argued heatedly for a very long time, then said you were frustrated.
You contributed to the argument that got you frustrated. Its not like it was done to you. If you felt it got out of hand, then back away. Thats all.

Oh come on! I'm frustrated at the level of name calling. Name calling wasn't done to me? I was enjoying the debate but after a while the constant belittling and lack of real debate got to me.

This is a PATHETIC response from someone who moderates a forum. You have yet to acknowledge that I have a single point about anything, including the simple FACT that I've been constantly insulted in this thread.

 

[Ring 6]

Oh come on! I'm frustrated at the level of name calling. Name calling wasn't done to me? I was enjoying the debate but after a while the constant belittling and lack of real debate got to me.

This is a PATHETIC response from someone who moderates a forum. You have yet to acknowledge that I have a single point about anything, including the simple FACT that I've been constantly insulted in this thread.

Wow.
OK, let me try this.
I am sooooo sorry that while you spent 2 days arguing that no one bothered to ask you how you were feeling and make sure you werent frustrated.
I am soooo sorry that I did not immediately send you cheer-up balloons, and instead pointed out that you are responsible for the tone of an argument when you are holding up half of the argument, and choose to keep it going.

What do you want? You want to argue (and you method of arguing could easily be considered insulting by the way) then when you have had enough whine that someone was mean to poor you.
I disagree with your point. I suppose I could go back and read the exchanges between you and Wildo, and let you know if I feel you were 'harmed'. On the other hand, you could just get over it.