Moss's Chase of the Checkbook indicates he's reverted to "Raider Randy"

[MoLewisrocks]

It is possible the Patriots didn't guarantee all of his contract - or sign him to a six year deal - because they saw red flags concerning his character but it is even more likely that they didn't do either one of those because of his age more so than any other factor.

The premise of your argument is ridiculous in that you think Belichick and Pioli changed their offer because Moss shopped himself around. I doubt Belichick would take such a slight so personally that he would allow it to determine how they do business, especially if it would jeopardize their opportunity to take care of offseason priority number one.

Actually they did change their offer because he shopped himself. Only the change was to increase both the signing bonus and guaranteed money. Michael Smith talked to the Eagles about thrie involvement over the weekend:

"A league source familiar with the negotiations said that the Eagles were in fact negotiating with Randy Moss before he re-signed with the Patriots. When the Patriots decided not to use the franchise tag on Moss, the Eagles were like a lot people in assuming New England was working on deal with Moss and was a lock to retain him. But when word got around that there wasn't a deal and Moss was open to talking to other teams, the Eagles decided to throw their hat in the ring, though they always believed themselves to be a long shot.

Philadelphia first contacted Moss either late Saturday night or early Sunday. The Eagles offered Moss a $15 million signing bonus as part of a four-year, $36 million package. But they knew the only way they would beat out New England for his services was to blow the Patriots completely out of the water. Ultimately, the Patriots stepped up their offer and obviously Moss accepted."

-- ESPN.com's Michael Smith

Reportedly Moss told the Eagles when he declined their offer it was because he wanted to remain with Tom Brady.

 

[bradmahn]

Actually they did change their offer because he shopped himself. Only the change was to increase both the signing bonus and guaranteed money. Michael Smith talked to the Eagles about thrie involvement over the weekend:

"A league source familiar with the negotiations said that the Eagles were in fact negotiating with Randy Moss before he re-signed with the Patriots. When the Patriots decided not to use the franchise tag on Moss, the Eagles were like a lot people in assuming New England was working on deal with Moss and was a lock to retain him. But when word got around that there wasn't a deal and Moss was open to talking to other teams, the Eagles decided to throw their hat in the ring, though they always believed themselves to be a long shot.

Philadelphia first contacted Moss either late Saturday night or early Sunday. The Eagles offered Moss a $15 million signing bonus as part of a four-year, $36 million package. But they knew the only way they would beat out New England for his services was to blow the Patriots completely out of the water. Ultimately, the Patriots stepped up their offer and obviously Moss accepted."

-- ESPN.com's Michael Smith

Reportedly Moss told the Eagles when he declined their offer it was because he wanted to remain with Tom Brady.

JSP's argument has moved on to saying that Belichick noticed something ugly in his [Moss's] character that would be the reason BB and Pioli didn't sign Moss to a longer or more lucrative contract. Obviously they were plenty enamored with him if they were willing to make a second offer to further an attempt to sign Moss.

 

[MRBLAZE]

Philadelphia first contacted Moss either late Saturday night or early Sunday. The Eagles offered Moss a $15 million signing bonus as part of a four-year, $36 million package. But they knew the only way they would beat out New England for his services was to blow the Patriots completely out of the water. Ultimately, the Patriots stepped up their offer and obviously Moss accepted."

-- ESPN.com's Michael Smith

Reportedly Moss told the Eagles when he declined their offer it was because he wanted to remain with Tom Brady.

Love you randy!

 

[dhamz]

So if a 12 million dollar signing bonus means the Patriots see character flaws in a player - does that mean they see character flaws in Adalius Thomas? I mean, he got a 12m signing bonus from the Pats last offseason.

 

[stcjones]

Without further eloquence, I leave the floor to Mr. VJCPatriot.

Gotta second the motion...If I had made comments in regards to Moss "chasing the checkbook" and had him returning to "Raider Randy"....only to find out that Moss once again gave the Pats a HOMETOWN DISCOUNT considering what was and would still be floating out there money wise for him........I would be too busy figuring out what I wanted to have with my crow....hot sauce (my favorite).....or sweet and sour........Joe.....appreciate your posts on here overall.....but you gotta know when to say "I was wrong on this one"!!!! GO PATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[thesmee1]

Love you randy!

No kidding, I couldn't picture him on any other team but the Pats. I also remember a quote from him regarding signing with us. I think it went to the effect of, " I'd break other teams banks, but not the Pats." When I heard that, I knew he would be back. The one thing with this front office, never doubt them, because they've done well by us so far.

 

[JoeSixPat]

OK guys in the interest of moving on, noting its the laundry we're really rooting for, I'm willing to join with you in applauding Moss for shopping himself around the NFL in an effort to get the Patriots to increase their offer, even though just a few weeks prior he had pledged that he wasn't going to do that and had no interest in playing for another team.

As Mo Lewis notes, even though Moss had earlier pledged that he only wanted to play for the Pats and that money wasn't going to be an issue, Moss' tactics worked well, forcing the Patriots to increase their initial offer, which was possibly something even closer to the $10 million signing bonus of Stallworth and his 3 TDs and 700 yards of receptions.

I mean it's not like Moss was seriously considering signing with a team like the Eagles - which had he done so of course would have led to a ton of threads bashing Moss here. But I wouldn't want to accuse anyone of hypocrisy.

While I much prefer to see guys take Brady's approach and not engage in such behavior, I know now I'm in the minority on that one.

It's also clear that there's been a shift of style here where newer members like "eom" who's only contribution to a discussion are designed to flame other members. I appear to be the only one who is the least bit concerned about that... but again if you can't beat them, join them.

In any event I was wrong to chide Moss for saying one thing and doing another, and we should be just as understanding should Brady do the same thing decide he'd prefer to test the market in an effort to increase the Patriot's offer.

The only principle at work here is whether or not Moss signed with another team - and his earlier pledge, nor a Stallworth type signing bonus, should just be forgotten.

 

[cartmen]

Joe I fail to see what Moss did wrong in any of that though. Who cares if he worked the best deal for himself if you say he is selfish you are a hypocrit (i cant spell) because you and everyone in this room would do it at their job at the drop of a dime and you know it. So get off your soap box you were wrong for falting him for anything and in the end he is right back here for far less than what I thought it would take. You people who think athletes should be happy to play for "our team" for less are complete morons and should be ignored at all costs. Its a JOB to them more than its a game and you would do the same

 

[spacecrime]

You sound like a politician caught in the men's room with one of his pages.

OK guys in the interest of moving on, noting its the laundry we're really rooting for, I'm willing to join with you in applauding Moss for shopping himself around the NFL in an effort to get the Patriots to increase their offer, even though just a few weeks prior he had pledged that he wasn't going to do that and had no interest in playing for another team.

As Mo Lewis notes, even though Moss had earlier pledged that he only wanted to play for the Pats and that money wasn't going to be an issue, Moss' tactics worked well, forcing the Patriots to increase their initial offer, which was possibly something even closer to the $10 million signing bonus of Stallworth and his 3 TDs and 700 yards of receptions.

I mean it's not like Moss was seriously considering signing with a team like the Eagles - which had he done so of course would have led to a ton of threads bashing Moss here. But I wouldn't want to accuse anyone of hypocrisy.

While I much prefer to see guys take Brady's approach and not engage in such behavior, I know now I'm in the minority on that one.

It's also clear that there's been a shift of style here where newer members like "eom" who's only contribution to a discussion are designed to flame other members. I appear to be the only one who is the least bit concerned about that... but again if you can't beat them, join them.

In any event I was wrong to chide Moss for saying one thing and doing another, and we should be just as understanding should Brady do the same thing decide he'd prefer to test the market in an effort to increase the Patriot's offer.

The only principle at work here is whether or not Moss signed with another team - and his earlier pledge, nor a Stallworth type signing bonus, should just be forgotten.

 

[RussFrancis]

OK guys in the interest of moving on, noting its the laundry we're really rooting for, I'm willing to join with you in applauding Moss for shopping himself around the NFL in an effort to get the Patriots to increase their offer, even though just a few weeks prior he had pledged that he wasn't going to do that and had no interest in playing for another team.

As Mo Lewis notes, even though Moss had earlier pledged that he only wanted to play for the Pats and that money wasn't going to be an issue, Moss' tactics worked well, forcing the Patriots to increase their initial offer, which was possibly something even closer to the $10 million signing bonus of Stallworth and his 3 TDs and 700 yards of receptions.

I mean it's not like Moss was seriously considering signing with a team like the Eagles - which had he done so of course would have led to a ton of threads bashing Moss here. But I wouldn't want to accuse anyone of hypocrisy.

While I much prefer to see guys take Brady's approach and not engage in such behavior, I know now I'm in the minority on that one.

It's also clear that there's been a shift of style here where newer members like "eom" who's only contribution to a discussion are designed to flame other members. I appear to be the only one who is the least bit concerned about that... but again if you can't beat them, join them.

In any event I was wrong to chide Moss for saying one thing and doing another, and we should be just as understanding should Brady do the same thing decide he'd prefer to test the market in an effort to increase the Patriot's offer.

The only principle at work here is whether or not Moss signed with another team - and his earlier pledge, nor a Stallworth type signing bonus, should just be forgotten.

You really could have started and stopped with just that. You came out and hammered the guy without actually knowing what was being said or done. The guy's a FA once in his life, and he took a couple of days to enjoy being the center of the football universe. But Im glad you came around and atleast admitted the fault. So thumbs up for that.

 

[eom]

this thread needs a subject change to something more like, "sorry to waste board space - I don't know wtf I'm talking about", then locked.

edit: or moved to VLR would be good.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

OK guys in the interest of moving on, noting its the laundry we're really rooting for, I'm willing to join with you in applauding Moss for shopping himself around the NFL in an effort to get the Patriots to increase their offer, even though just a few weeks prior he had pledged that he wasn't going to do that and had no interest in playing for another team.

As Mo Lewis notes, even though Moss had earlier pledged that he only wanted to play for the Pats and that money wasn't going to be an issue, Moss' tactics worked well, forcing the Patriots to increase their initial offer, which was possibly something even closer to the $10 million signing bonus of Stallworth and his 3 TDs and 700 yards of receptions.

I mean it's not like Moss was seriously considering signing with a team like the Eagles - which had he done so of course would have led to a ton of threads bashing Moss here. But I wouldn't want to accuse anyone of hypocrisy.

While I much prefer to see guys take Brady's approach and not engage in such behavior, I know now I'm in the minority on that one.

It's also clear that there's been a shift of style here where newer members like "eom" who's only contribution to a discussion are designed to flame other members. I appear to be the only one who is the least bit concerned about that... but again if you can't beat them, join them.

In any event I was wrong to chide Moss for saying one thing and doing another, and we should be just as understanding should Brady do the same thing decide he'd prefer to test the market in an effort to increase the Patriot's offer.

The only principle at work here is whether or not Moss signed with another team - and his earlier pledge, nor a Stallworth type signing bonus, should just be forgotten.

Your problem Joe, or one of your problems since you seem to have several, is you interpreted what Moss actually said as meaning something else. He never pledged he wouldn't shop himself nor did he say he had no interest in playing for any other team. He's not an idiot. He said he wouldn't break the bank to re-sign with the Patriots and he said he wanted to remain here and hopefully retire a patriot. I've heard that all before, albeit from guys who are no longer here. Randy is. I've heard Brady say that at contract time too, while keeping in mind it is always a two way street and these players aren't looking to get taken advantage of. The ones who mean it when say they want a fair deal for both sides, and when they feel they have that they sign on the dotted line.

Get over yourself, Joe. I know you think your smarter than apparently everyone at this point, because you know what you think you know, but what you're doing in the face of facts to the contrary is making yourself look like a jerk. You're starting to remind me of another poster who used to have the same problem, which over time landed him on his own site - where he doesn't have to admit he was wrong.

You chose to personally and publicly and foolishly pre-emptively smear a player's reputation, one he worked hard to rehablitate as a member of this team in 2007, based on hyperstimulated media spin. And when that didn't pan out you shifted gears and tried to paint his contract as justification of your now underlying belief that the player isn't someone they trust either. It's really pathetic at this point, and it's all because you just can't say I was wrong, I got spun, I owe this player an apology.

 

[pao]

Umm let's see:

Moss gets $12 million guaranteed.

Stallworth gets $10 million guaranteed.

Seeing how Moss blew away Stallworth statistically, why do you think Moss's guaranteed value (which is really all that counts) was so comparitively low?

You certianly won't hear anyone in the Patriots front office bash Moss now that he's signed, but I think the numbers indicate that they too had some concerns and weren't willing to commit to anywhere near the type of long term, huge guaranteed money that he wanted.

Beyond that I take offense at being compared to Felger who is consistently anti-Patriot.

I want what is best for this team - and I was very upfront about my concerns about signing Moss, given his history in Oakland, to a long term contract with a lot of guranteed money.

Looks like Belichick and Pioli were as well.

I'd like to think that Patriots fans can actually look at the facts and have a realistic view of the situation but apparently that's not the case.

But the numbers do not lie folks. 23 touchdown passes and the front office is only willing to give slightly more guarnteed than Stallworth.

I'll be rooting for Moss week in and week out and am truly GLAD that the Patriots have protected themselves with a short contract with limited guaranteed money. But I'm not going to insult my intelligence or anyone elses by making believe none of the concerns the Patriots clearly seem to have aren't real.

Excellent post. I seldom agree with you but you're right on this one.

pao

 

[BPF]

Just heard that the Eagles offered Randy more money and he chose to come back. This reverting to "Raider Randy" is all a bunch of horse crap. Randy got $15m guaranteed while Berrian got $16m, so Mr. Moss is definitely a man of his word and we all know now that winning is very, very important to him. He put his money where his mouth is.

I know this is old news by now but Peter King touched upon this subject today in his MMQB:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/03/16/draft/3.html

You should, by the way, remember one more point about Moss, and about his talks with the Eagles. Philly would have had to pay Moss significantly more per year to get him over the Patriots, because, contrary to some of the stuff out in the press in the days after Moss re-signed with New England, Moss was always going back to New England. That is as long as the price the Pats were willing to pay was at least 75 or 80 percent of what he could have squeezed out of some team. And $9 million a year, exactly what the Pats paid for Moss, is probably right at the breaking point for both sides -- it's enough for Moss, who could have gotten a little more in Philadelphia, and it's fair for the Patriots.

I'm one who believes that Moss, once the Patriots got to their number, was never going anywhere else unless "anywhere else'' offered a sick sum, like $15 million a year. Moral of the story, as I see it: Moss did what he said he'd do, which is put a huge premium on playing with a great team and a great quarterback. Had he chosen the Eagle for $2 million a year more, we'd have had all the proof we needed that he's a phony. He's not.

Whatever you want to say about the guy after his wayward years in Oakland (and I've ripped him plenty for how he dogged it there), he said all along he wanted to play with a great quarterback on a premier team, and if the Patriots were in the same ballpark, he'd stay. That's precisely what happened.

 

[Patjew]

You know what's scary? This is one of the better thread topics on the board right now.

 

[Cartwright]

Hate to add another Moss thread but I think it's important to broadcast this notion to the football world.

While Moss was here he demonstrated his ability to act like a team player (which is easier when you're getting enough passes thrown your way to set NFL records and aren't losing any games).

He also went on the record saying that money wasn't the most important thing - that winning was. He said - pleaded with Bob Kraft and Belichick publicly in fact - that he wanted to remain a Patriot and wanted to play with Brady.

Part of me felt that was all about Randy posturing, saying the right things to get the highest payday after his one year deal with the Pats. But I wanted to believe otherwise and in fact did eventually.

All of that was significant as when in Oakland it became clear to everyone that Randy was all about the money - not winning, and was a bad teammate that hurt rather than helped his team.

Well, now Randy is sending a loud message to the NFL about who the REAL Randy Moss is.

By all but turning his back on the Patriots and shopping himself to other teams he's made it clear that everything he said before about money and winning and being a good teammate was Bull$h!t.

This should give any GM or owner - including Belichick and Kraft - serious pause when contemplating whether to give this guy a multi-year $10 million a year contract. They all know now that his words about winning and teamwork mean nothing. It's all about the money.

And THAT tell us all that he's reverted to Raider Randy - a guy who, once he has a guaranteed contract in hand, isn't going to give it his all, and might actually be a detriment to the team, just as he was in Oakland.

I think Moss has miscalculated his moves - and may find that his offers are heading south the longer this saga continues. And whether its the Patriots or some other team that signs him, I'm very much worried as to the value he'll bring, and how hard he'll work with a long-term contract with dozens of millions of dollars guaranteed.

In a nutshell, Moss has sent a loud message to the NFL in his dealings with the Patriots - let the buyer beware... Raider Randy is back.

LOL, you guys got a deal for Randy. The way he played, and worked so well in that offense with Brady, he was worth 3 at 35 MIL, with 22 guaranteed.

Why should any player bow to an embarrassing offer. Obviously, it WAS embarrassing, or he wouldn't have shopped. This is on the Pats, not RM.

 

[LiveShot]

I'd hate to see the vitriole dispensed in this forum if Randy Moss had signed elsewhere. What the hell is wrong with you, all players want MONEY. I'm sure if you were offered a job at more money you would turn it down. Give me a f==king break. Randy took less because he was damaged goods. Some Pats fans just don't know how good they have it the last 6 years.

 

[spacecrime]

I'd hate to see the vitriole dispensed in this forum if Randy Moss had signed elsewhere. What the hell is wrong with you, all players want MONEY. I'm sure if you were offered a job at more money you would turn it down. Give me a f==king break.

<sigh> yet another guy who values piling up a big bank account more than being happy.

I would venture to say that most posters on this board could be making more money at another job. I have turned down many offers to be a manager at considerably more money. What the hell good is more money if you aren't happy?

This is particularly true at the levels of $$$ being thrown around for players. Yeah, if I was making minimum wage at a job I liked, and was raising a family again, and could make more money at a job I didn't like, I'd jump.

But if I had enough to satisfy my needs (and I'm talking salary of tens of thousands, not millions), I WOULD NEVER take a job I didn't want just because it paid more. I don't even understand the thought process you have that would make you (or anyone) do such a thing.

If a player values winning and hates to lose, and he chooses to bypass a winning team's offer of $36 million to go to a losing team for $39 million, he is within his rights, or course. But what is the point of having millions if they aren't being used to make you the happiest and most satisfied you can be?

I don't know why you worship money as you appear to do, but trust me: You are wrong when you say that most of us would always choose one job over another based solely on money.