Moss's Chase of the Checkbook indicates he's reverted to "Raider Randy"

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Moss signed already. This thread needs to die.

 

[eom]

I can't help but wonder if they'd feel the same way if he signed with the Eagles.

which he didn't, dumbass.
that's kind of the entire point.


I wonder what you'd be saying if he signed w/the pats?
oh, wait..............

 

[PatriotsReign]

Yes you were.

I was trying not to be reactionary.

just kidding a.paul

 

[bradmahn]

Fair enough. As I said I much prefer to talk football as opposed to getting down to eom's level.

First of all, apples to apples, Stallworth got a $10 million signing bonus according to reports. I've not seen details on additional gurantees. Moss got a $12 million signing bonus - and we're told $3 million more in gurantees whatever form that might be in)

But whether its an average of $4 million a year guranteed or $5 million a year, Yes, I would contend that's on the low side.

Forgive me for not recognizing what the agent claims the "true" value of a contract is - we all know that guranteed money is about all one can truly bank on.

I don't discount that he could well see every penny of it. Nor would I discount that the 3rd year could have the bulk of the salary. And I don't rule out the possibility that the Patriots have some concern about Moss getting injured.

But when the all time record holder for TDs is given a bonus not far off from someone like Stallworth - regardless of how many fake or real years are in Stallworth's contract - it should cause one to take notice and ask "why".

I think the difference you see between me and a lot of these mindless insult throwers here is that I can acknowledge the possibility that injury concerns could be a factor - but apparently none of them can acknowledge the possibility that the low bonus relates to a concern to keep Moss "hungry" as opposed to his years in Oakland.

But - because Moss signed here instead of with the Eagles as reports say he very nearly did - people feel compelled to drudge up this thread and hurl childish insults at me.

I can't help but wonder if they'd feel the same way if he signed with the Eagles.

So you get to discount the three million that is guaranteed to him that isn't part of the signing bonus because it negatively affects your argument? At least that's what it seems like. The team agreed to guarantee an extra three million, it's guaranteed money. He's guaranteed to get that money. Am I clear on that?

He's guaranteed five million per year, if you want to look at it like that. Stallworth is guaranteed $1.43 per each year of his contract.

Moss's guarantees equal fifty-six percent of his contract. How is 56% a low figure? Stallworth is guaranteed 28% of his.

The Eagles contract has absolutely nothing to do with this argument. The only thing the Eagles contract offer (presumably) does is prove that your original point of contention was wrong, that Moss would, and did, indeed take less money to play for the New England Patriots.

I don't see any possible reason for you to not admit that your original post to start this thread was wrong. But whatever, it's your opinion and you have the right to be wrong.

 

[ATippett56]

But when the all time record holder for TDs is given a bonus not far off from someone like Stallworth - regardless of how many fake or real years are in Stallworth's contract - it should cause one to take notice and ask "why".

The New England Patriots took a "take it or leave it" stance with Givens and Branch. Why should it be that much different with Randy Moss? In essence, Randy Moss obliged the New England Patriots organization and took the "home town discount".

I think the difference you see between me and a lot of these mindless insult throwers here is that I can acknowledge the possibility that injury concerns could be a factor - but apparently none of them can acknowledge the possibility that the low bonus relates to a concern to keep Moss "hungry" as opposed to his years in Oakland.

With Kerry Collins and Aaron Brooks as my quarterbacks, I would be slightly less than fully motivated with those two clowns. Meanwhile, the Oakland Raiders offensive line has been a sieve since 2005, the year Randy Moss arrived:

2005 Oakland Raiders 45 sacks allowed
2006 Oakland Raiders 72 sacks allowed
2007 Oakland Raiders 41 sacks allowed

As evident in the Super Bowl, if the offensive line can't protect the quarterback, even Tom Brady can be reduced to mere mortal status.

 

[aluminum seats]

Yeah - some jerk called "eom" dredged it up, and as people feel compelled to insult me I feel compelled to defend myself.

Sorry - just one of those things.

But yes - my premise was that after saying he wanted to play no where else and for reasonable money, Moss did in fact go back on his word and shopped himself around the NFL.

That concerned me and very possibly concerned the Patriots front office as well, who gave the all time TD record holding WR a signing bonus not far off from what Stallworth got in the same market.

I'm not wrong about that, no matter what insults folks want to throw my way.

You're being completely incoherent. The premise of your thread was that Moss was going to go against what he said and just look for the top contract he could. He did NOT do that. You're doing a 180 here and saying the fact that he did what he said he would do (not hold out for every last dollar) means the Pats don't like something about him. This is nonsensical. It means Moss DID do what he said he would, and both sides are happy.

Starting a thread with an incorrect premise and compounding that mistake by 1) not admitting it and 2) hysterically bashing everyone who tells you that is beyond lame. Post that your premise was wrong and wrap it up. On principle this is absurd........hell, it's almost grounds for banishment, considering your number of posts.

 

[ATippett56]

Moss signed already. This thread needs to die.

Naw! I simply enjoy irrational thought.

 

[JoeSixPat]

So you get to discount the three million that is guaranteed to him that isn't part of the signing bonus because it negatively affects your argument? At least that's what it seems like. The team agreed to guarantee an extra three million, it's guaranteed money. He's guaranteed to get that money. Am I clear on that?

He's guaranteed five million per year, if you want to look at it like that. Stallworth is guaranteed $1.43 per each year of his contract.

Moss's guarantees equal fifty-six percent of his contract. How is 56% a low figure? Stallworth is guaranteed 28% of his.

The Eagles contract has absolutely nothing to do with this argument. The only thing the Eagles contract offer (presumably) does is prove that your original point of contention was wrong, that Moss would, and did, indeed take less money to play for the New England Patriots.

I don't see any possible reason for you to not admit that your original post to start this thread was wrong. But whatever, it's your opinion and you have the right to be wrong.

Now come on now - you know I didn't do that.

I compared signing bonus to signing bonus. That's not my problem if you somehow think that's unfair. But as I said, I'm fine if you want to compare Stallworth's signing bonus to Moss's total guarantee. $10 million for 3 TDs to $15 million for 23 TDs.

You can rationalize that however you want. I'm willing to accept the possibility of your rationalization. The problem is you're not willing to accept the possibility of mine.

It doesn't change the fact that I think Belichick went out of his way to limit the amount of guranteed money and the number of years.

And since we both agree that all contracts - including Stallworths - and quite possibly Moss's - have "fake" years, its a stretch for you to break down Stallworth's bonus over 7 years. That's helpful for salary cap math but not in this case. Guranteed money is the only thing you can bank on.

That's likey a 4-5 year contract as opposed to Moss's which is probably 2-3.

But I think everyone in football agrees that

As far as what his potential Eagle contract has to do with this, my only point is, would all of these so called Patsfans throwing swears and insults at me be doing so if Moss did sign with another team?

As noted, that WAS the original point of this thread. What Moss SAYS and what he DOES are two different things - and the Eagles apparently have confirmed just how close he was to signing with them.

Moss's character display bothered me - and I don't rule out that it influenced BB's decision to keep the contract length and bonus to a minimum as well.

Apparently EVERYONE ELSE KNOWS why Moss' contract was limited to 3 years - because they are SURE I'm wrong.

C'mon guys - what's the matter - can't you admit you were wrong? That there's a slight possibility I'm right?

 

[JoeSixPat]

The New England Patriots took a "take it or leave it" stance with Givens and Branch. Why should it be that much different with Randy Moss? In essence, Randy Moss obliged the New England Patriots organization and took the "home town discount".

With Kerry Collins and Aaron Brooks as my quarterbacks, I would be slightly less than fully motivated with those two clowns. Meanwhile, the Oakland Raiders offensive line has been a sieve since 2005, the year Randy Moss arrived:

2005 Oakland Raiders 45 sacks allowed
2006 Oakland Raiders 72 sacks allowed
2007 Oakland Raiders 41 sacks allowed

As evident in the Super Bowl, if the offensive line can't protect the quarterback, even Tom Brady can be reduced to mere mortal status.

I've never once compared the Moss situation to Branch. They are not comparable.

But I'm glad you feel that Moss' attitude in Oakland was justified. I'm proud to say I do not. And I don't think Belichick would either.

 

[JoeSixPat]

which he didn't, dumbass.
that's kind of the entire point.


I wonder what you'd be saying if he signed w/the pats?
oh, wait..............

Thanks for making my point.

My opinion and view on the Moss situation is consistent - regardless of whether he signed here or not. He said one thing, did another, working to play the Patriots off of other teams.

You admit that your opinion is only based on whether or not Moss signed here.

I'm arguing principle, you're arguing laundry.

Let's give EOM a big hand here folks - he's the one who decided it would be a good idea to pull this thread off of page 3 and get the discussion going again.

Apparently he hadn't gotten enough childish insults off his chest for the night.

 

[ATippett56]

I'm glad you feel that Moss' attitude in Oakland was justified. I'm proud to say I do not. And I don't think Belichick would either.

Yet you completely ignore the fact that the Oakland Raiders offensive line could not protect the quarterback.

 

[eom]

you should probably concern yourself more about your own bull**** low rent attitude -- you could take a lesson from randy.
or was this forum just created as a platform for you to rip others, because you seem to cry like a ***** when you become the target --- difference being your ripping has merit.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Yet you completely ignore the fact that the Oakland Raiders offensive line could not protect the quarterback.

No - I just said that doesn't justify his attitude in Oakland.

Apparently you feel it does. Let's just agree to disagree on that point.

 

[JoeSixPat]

you should probably concern yourself more about your own bull**** low rent attitude -- you could take a lesson from randy.
or was this forum just created as a platform for you to rip others, because you seem to cry like a ***** when you become the target --- difference being your ripping has merit.

I'm still trying to find one post on this thread where you discuss football, rather than toss swears and insults around in an attempt to do, who knows what.

 

[bradmahn]

Now come on now - you know I didn't do that.

I compared signing bonus to signing bonus. That's not my problem if you somehow think that's unfair. But as I said, I'm fine if you want to compare Stallworth's signing bonus to Moss's total guarantee. $10 million for 3 TDs to $15 million for 23 TDs.

...

Apparently EVERYONE ELSE KNOWS why Moss' contract was limited to 3 years - because they are SURE I'm wrong.

C'mon guys - what's the matter - can't you admit you were wrong? That there's a slight possibility I'm right?

It is possible the Patriots didn't guarantee all of his contract - or sign him to a six year deal - because they saw red flags concerning his character but it is even more likely that they didn't do either one of those because of his age more so than any other factor.

The premise of your argument is ridiculous in that you think Belichick and Pioli changed their offer because Moss shopped himself around. I doubt Belichick would take such a slight so personally that he would allow it to determine how they do business, especially if it would jeopardize their opportunity to take care of offseason priority number one.

 

[eom]

Let's give EOM a big hand here folks - he's the one who decided it would be a good idea to pull this thread off of page 3 and get the discussion going again.

actually not --- I don't read page 3.
but I'm not surprised you'd want to bury your crap.
do you ever get anything right?
maybe somebody just thought it was important to broadcast this notion to the football world.


I'd say it's time to grow up a little and start taking responsibility for your own handiwork.

 

[ATippett56]

No - I just said that doesn't justify his attitude in Oakland.

So that's what your whole argument now boils down to.

Meanwhile, the Oakland Raiders are a catastrophic mess and have been ever since they lost the Super Bowl during the 2002 NFL Season.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Yet it's difficult to ignore how the market values Moss in terms of guranteed money (which most would agree is the only relevant $):

Moss - 23 TDs, 98 catches 1493 yards = $12 million

Stallworth - 3 TDs. 46 catches, 697 yards = $10 million.

Sure let's talk numbers then.

Moss contract. 3 years, 27M. 15M in guarantees.

Average Salary per year: 9.0M
Percentage of guaranteed cash: 56%

Stallworth. 7 years, 35M. 10M in guarantees. (Not 12)
http://govolsxtra.com/news/2008/mar/02/stallworth-signs-with-browns/

Average Salary per year: 5.0M
Percentage of guaranteed cash: 14%

In summary, Moss gets paid nearly DOUBLE the cash per year that Stallworth does. Moss also gets over TRIPLE the percentage of guaranteed money. Does a team that worries a player will underperform or as you contend "dog it", pay out that large a percentage of guaranteed money? No.

In short, your arguments that Stallworth got an equal or more valuable contract to Randy Moss, because of YOUR own unfounded assertion that the Patriots front office fear that Randy will turn into "Raider Randy", are off-base, inaccurate, and have no merits to those who have the IQ to calculate basic math.

In addition, it has been confirmed that Moss turned DOWN a larger offer from the Eagles. This disproves your contention that Randy was "all about the money."

For your own sake, please just give it up now. The numbers completely destroy your argument, and you're just making yourself look foolish on this forum. As they say, Pride comes before the fall. And oh how you are falling by the minute as you continue to perpetuate this ridiculous thread with your stubborn insistence on being "right."

 

[ne5patsfan4]

this topic is false

 

[ATippett56]

For your own sake, please just give it up now. The numbers completely destroy your argument, and you're just making yourself look foolish on this forum. As they say, Pride comes before the fall. And oh how you are falling by the minute as you continue to perpetuate this ridiculous thread with your stubborn insistence on being "right."

Without further eloquence, I leave the floor to Mr. VJCPatriot.