Let's Get Our DE at 17 or higher if need be!

[mgteich]

So, there are at 8 top DE's and 1 top RB with top 35 grades. And your conclusion is that we should make sure that we don't pick the RB with one of our 3 picks. The logic makes no sense to me. We certaily could draft a top DE AND Ingram in the first, and still have 28 or 33 and 60 to work with (trading down or not) to get a starting quality OG or two.

If you don't think Ingram should be valued as a first rounder (top 10 by Gosselin last I looked), that's one thing. To suggest that scarcity of first rounders should mean that we should look to 3rd rounders makes no sense at all.

If I really thought we needed a RB and Ingram was worth a mid 1st rounder, then I would be trading up from 28 or 33 to get Ingram.

I strongly believe that 12-17 is the sqweet spot for a DE, but even there Belihchik may be fine with waiting for a few picks and draft Heyward.

BOTTOM LINE
The issue is the value of Ingram to the team, NOT the fact that there are a lot of guys that might work out in the 3rd. After all, we could draft Ingram AND still draft a 3rd rounder. We have lots of room on the roster to add a couple of youngsters.

.The curious thing about DE in this year's draft is I could see up to 8 DL carrying 1st to early 2nd round grades, 2 of them being DTs, the other defensive ends. So the Pats are in an ideal postion to get 1 or even 2 of them. ]

 

[mgteich]

Jordan, Watt, Wilkerson, Heyward

Those are pretty fine options to improve our defensive line.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Jordan, Watt, Wilkerson, Heyward

In the for what it's worth category: Stephen Paea's personal Pro-Day coming off his knee surgery, drill clips to the left of the story - nothing there to shake my belief in Paea as a viable late first/early second DE prospect for NE

 

[IllegalContact]

Re: Jordan, Watt, Wilkerson, Heyward

In the for what it's worth category: Stephen Paea's personal Pro-Day coming off his knee surgery, drill clips to the left of the story - nothing there to shake my belief in Paea as a viable late first/early second DE prospect for NE

sorry.......too short

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Jordan, Watt, Wilkerson, Heyward

sorry.......too short

Say what?

 

[IllegalContact]

paea is even shorter and has short arms........he lacks the ability to affect the QB's vision, and a backup for wilfork is not needed.....I think there's 3 or 4 of them on the team already

 

[Wilfork#75]

I really like Paea as a player, but I don't see him as a great fit in our system. He lacks the height and length that we like in DE's at 6'1" with 32 7/8 arms. And unlike Big Vince he doesn't have the bulk to make up for it, weighing in at only 299lbs. Saying that he is an almost immovable object in the middle so BB could see a place for him, but I think he is a much better fit as a 1-gap NT for a team like Houston.

 

[dryheat44]

I really like Paea as a player, but I don't see him as a great fit in our system. He lacks the height and length that we like in DE's at 6'1" with 32 7/8 arms. And unlike Big Vince he doesn't have the bulk to make up for it, weighing in at only 299lbs. Saying that he is an almost immovable object in the middle so BB could see a place for him, but I think he is a much better fit as a 1-gap NT for a team like Houston.

This is the side I also fall on. Great player. No home for him here. I don't think he'll be immovable at all. I think the first time he gets hit with an NFL combo block he'll be moveable all the way to Level 2. He's a tyrannosaurus.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

paea is even shorter and has short arms........he lacks the ability to affect the QB's vision, and a backup for wilfork is not needed.....I think there's 3 or 4 of them on the team already

Per Combine measurements, both men were recorded as 6012 or 6' 1 1/4". Just as Vince had no trouble getting leverage against Miami's Jake Long, I doubt Paea would fall behind in a similar battle. As for arm length, just how long are Vince's arms? I have no data from his draft, but I'd be very surprised if they are much longer than 33". Visibility is what it is, shorter defenders are at a disadvantage, they need to make up for it with hand speed, upper body strength, and great technique.

Ranking 3-4 DE prospects for NE's scheme (note: some of these prospects may be ranked higher at another position or in another system):

1. Dareus
2. Watt/Fairley
3. Bowers/Wilkerson
4. Paea/Jenkins/Ellis
5. Jordan/Heyward
6. McClain/McPhee/Bair
7. Neild/Williams

I'm not sure where to rank Bryant, but rounding out the class with him is a handful of run stuffers who might be more in time: Larimore, Clayton, Kearse, Fua, Joseph, Mikaele ...

 

[IllegalContact]

Per Combine measurements, both men were recorded as 6012 or 6' 1 1/4". Just as Vince had no trouble getting leverage against Miami's Jake Long, I doubt Paea would fall behind in a similar battle. As for arm length, just how long are Vince's arms? I have no data from his draft, but I'd be very surprised if they are much longer than 33". Visibility is what it is, shorter defenders are at a disadvantage, they need to make up for it with hand speed, upper body strength, and great technique.

Ranking 3-4 DE prospects for NE's scheme (note: some of these prospects may be ranked higher at another position or in another system):

1. Dareus
2. Watt/Fairley
3. Bowers/Wilkerson
4. Paea/Jenkins/Ellis
5. Jordan/Heyward
6. McClain/McPhee/Bair
7. Neild/Williams

I'm not sure where to rank Bryant, but rounding out the class with him is a handful of run stuffers who might be more in time: Larimore, Clayton, Kearse, Fua, Joseph, Mikaele ...

to me, paea makes no sense for the pats in the 1st 2 rounds

 

[Off The Grid]

sorry.......too short

Say what?

He said "HE'S TOO @#$%ING SHORT!!"

I really like Paea as a player, but I don't see him as a great fit in our system. He lacks the height and length that we like in DE's at 6'1" with 32 7/8 arms. And unlike Big Vince he doesn't have the bulk to make up for it, weighing in at only 299lbs. Saying that he is an almost immovable object in the middle so BB could see a place for him, but I think he is a much better fit as a 1-gap NT for a team like Houston.

Exactly!!

BIG fan of Stephen Paea, but he is clearly a SPECTACULAR non-fit for our System.

~ He's FAR too small for Nose Tackle.

~ He's FAR too short for Defensive End.

***

He and Vince Wilfork are both about the same height, and are both mammals.

That's about as far as their similarities go.

 

[Badger]

This is the year od the DE. We need a DE. Let's draft fall to us at 17, or trade up if we need to as we did in 2003 for Warren. I see no reason to fail to get a top DE.

I now officially have blinders on. I just can't see someone being available at another position who could have the near the value of a DE to us.
============

I could see us using a 2nd or 3rd to move up from 17 to get our man, and then to move down from 28 or 33, re-capturing the pick traded away.

AMEN! Now this is a post with some reason!!

 

[dryheat44]

AMEN! Now this is a post with some reason!!

Really? The guy who in another thread who has several posts saying the right move is to do whatever it takes to improve the pass rush?

 

[reflexblue]

I say stay at #17 and take the best DE or OLB, you never know who is going to fall.

 

[supafly]

I say stay at #17 and take the best DE or OLB, you never know who is going to fall.

That's my thinking too, but I am happy with anything no matter what. Now ask me at the end of April, and hopefully I feel the same way

 

[mgteich]

This is an OK strategy as long as you are with Wilkerson or Hayward at 17.

That's my thinking too, but I am happy with anything no matter what. Now ask me at the end of April, and hopefully I feel the same way

 

[supafly]

This is an OK strategy as long as you are with Wilkerson or Hayward at 17.

Well, I suppose you could go BPA at 17, then make a move up from 28 to 23-25 and grab either Heyward or Wilkerson, but that may be unlikely.

Just as long as we do grab either Watt, Wilkerson, or Heyward in some fashion.

 

[jukes]

We can easily get heyward in the 20's right before baltimore if wilkerson is gone