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Let's Get Our DE at 17 or higher if need be!

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mgteich, Mar 22, 2011.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is the year od the DE. We need a DE. Let's draft fall to us at 17, or trade up if we need to as we did in 2003 for Warren. I see no reason to fail to get a top DE.

    I now officially have blinders on. :) I just can't see someone being available at another position who could have the near the value of a DE to us.
    ============

    I could see us using a 2nd or 3rd to move up from 17 to get our man, and then to move down from 28 or 33, re-capturing the pick traded away.
  2. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    If Watt makes it past Dallas, I could easily see BB calling Shanahan. If the Cowboys do take Watt, it's trade down time for one of the meh ends.
  3. doesntmatter1

    doesntmatter1 Rookie

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    Something in my gut tells me that Corey Liuget will be the pick IF we stay at 17. He reminds me of Ty Warren more than anyone else in the draft. Its not his size that i find comparable, just their style of play.
  4. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    Let's get a stud outside pass rusher and shore up our offensive line.
  5. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We've talked about needing a stud outside linebacker since Belichick's first draft. Unless Belichick sees a 3-4 OLB ready or almost ready to start, I don't Belichick drafting a first round OLB.

    I thought that it was unusual for Belichick to use a 2nd for an OLB last year. So, it is indeed possibile for Belichick to even use 17, 28, or 33.

    I would welcome an OLB at 28 or 33 if a DE is picked first. Kerrigan, Houston and Reed all come to mind. However, I think that #50 (SD's pick) or #60 would be a more likely spot for a 3-4 OLB in training.


  6. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    What are you looking for? There is a variety of DE types with few of them being classic Patriot 3-4 DEs. Dareus is the only guy in the top 17 that fits the mold. And he should go in the top 3 with #6 being his floor.

    Box and I have been going back and forth on Jordan. I really like him...Box not so much. We evaluate him about the same but are looking for different things.

    People looking for Dareus skills see DE as out of reach and would rather have Wilkinson later...addressing OLB or OT at #17.

    People looking for a more multi-purpose athletic type see value at #17 (or a slight trade-up) to get Jordan or Watt with Heyward as plan B.

    Some see more value in the 2nd round range with Jenkins, Ballard or Austin. Still very talented but available later...giving the Pats the ability to address other areas first.

    Still others think that getting the monsters like Taylor/Ellis is the right approach...or the guys pegged for 4-3 DT like Liuget, Nevis or Paea make sense.

    I agree that this is the year of the DE. They are just very different. Depending on what roles/skill sets you are looking for, you will either see an urgency to trade up, see value at #17 or even be content waiting until later.
  7. eagle eye

    eagle eye Rookie

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    It seems that in recent times BB has been decided on who he wants before the draft and not taking whoever the best available at the time is. If he wants Watt and he needs to move up to get him I think he will do it.
  8. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Huh, OLB in training? Are we so stacked at OLB that a player has to get in a rotation?

    I think 60 is too late but there should be "value" at pick 33...
  9. townes

    townes Rookie

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    Probably the most likely position pick. Belichik loves using firsts for DL and the top end of this year's class is deep and as other needs rise up the board some of the top DL are going to slide down, deservedly or not. Right now Dareus and Bowers are the only two who are really out of reach, Fairley is starting to drop in many mocks and may end up in the 10-20 range instead of top five. I see Taylor rising to top 20 and a decent chance Jordan, Wilkerson, and Watt will all be in the 15-25 range.
  10. PatsFaninME

    PatsFaninME Rookie

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    Although I realize it's not gospel, the Trade Value Chart shows #17 and #28 as being worth the #6 overall pick. If we have the ability to trade these two first rounders to get the chance at Quinn, Bowers or Miller (who I'm not as high on), then I say make the move.

    We would still be in great shape with 2 picks in each of 2nd and 3rd rounds. I would move down 10-12 oicks from #33 (unless a real steal was available) and look for a 1st or 2nd next year. Then draft for value at OL while keeping an eye out for a steal at RB, WR, S.

    Quinn, Bowers or Miller could immediately improve pass rush and make others better. I believe our secondary could be one of best with a pass rush, return of Bodden and development from Butler.
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Many agree with you, agreed with you last year, and the year before and the year before that. Perhaps this time Belichick will change his mind and consider an OLB worth #33.

    Last year our need was much worse thatn this year at LB. Belichick used #53 and #60 to draft linebackers. What si so different about this year's draft at LB.

  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know who Belichick deems worthy. Quiinn, Bowers, Miller, Jordan, Watt and Dareus make a good list of players that might interest Belichick from 6-16. We might even pick Liuget or Wilkerson at 17 or with a small trade down.

    last year, belichick found no DE worthy. Perhaps this year one will be worthy.

    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Assuming we keep the current picks, which isn't a good assumption, I don't think Bill will box himself into this thinking. No need to panic for a DL when you can likely get Wilkerson or Heyward at #28 -you may even get them both, one at #28 and #33. I expect #17 to be BPA which could well be a DL but there's absolutely no need to lock yourself into a position for a pick when we pick so regularly throughout the draft.
  14. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    i think if BB wants one of the top 3-4 DE's he will have to trade up to get him
  15. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Hell no! That's the antithesis of a BB move to get rid of two 1st rounders to move up for one guy who could turn out a bust. That ain't gathering value. Been watching any of the Pats drafts the past oh 10 years or so?

    I can see BB doing a small trade up to maybe 12-13 to secure a top DE. Those big 300 lb guys that are athletes, they don't grow on trees. I'm hoping it's Watt. No big jumps up, just a small one is fine though.
  16. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You are just arguing about how much Belichick is willing to spend to trade up. The principle is generally agreed upon. We have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds. The questions are how much will it take to get the man that Belichick wants and will he be willing.

    Will Belichick be willing to part with #60 or #74 and move up to 11-14? Or will he be willing to use #28 or #33 and move urther up to 6-10?

    While I agree with you, it is NOT because I don't think that Belichick would be willing to part with #28 or #33. I think it is because I think that Belichick could find his man in the 11-14 range. Dareus or Von Miller may be worth #6, but likely no one else that we would trade 17 and 28 for; and they won't be there at 6.

  17. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    BB goes after targets but he doesn't waste value to do so. And he's willing to wait to get his man, but only if he projects it is likely his guy will last. Therefore I see a slight tradeup to leapfrog Jacksonville and Miami to get the stud DE. And a slight trade down from 28 into round 2, not only negating the value loss of the previous tradeup, it's a wise move because the players left over at 28 don't look much better than the players at #33 or early-mid round 2. I question the value of ANY OLB conversion project for the Pats being higher than a 2nd round pick. Trading multiple assets including two first rounders to do so is even more value deficient.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011
  18. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that we need to separate those who Belichick wants as a 3-4 1st down DE and those who he might want as a 3-4 OLB (or to play in the subpackage).

    DEFENSIVE END
    It is the DE that I think that Belichick way be willing to draft at 17 or even trade up as far as he finds value, which could even for Dareus or Miller at 6.

    OUTSIDE LINEBACKER
    With regard to OLB, I don't see us using any higher than 33, but Bleichick could surprise at 28 or with a trade down within the first to 29-32. Belichick saw value in ther 50's last year. Perhaps this year, he might go a bit higher, or not.

    It seems as if Houston and Reed are this year's equivalent of Hughes and/or Barwin. But, Belichick could see the value earlier than 50 this year. Apparently, belichick is considering trading down with San Diego, which would be a move from 28 to 50, a more comfortable spot for Belichick to draft a linebacker.


  19. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Dareus won't get out of the top 6 and even if he did get to 6 I don't think we move that far up. BB refused to trade the farm for Suh, a once in a decade guy, I don't see him doing it for Dareus either. It's even far unlikelier that he'd move up for Miller who would be a conversion project at OLB in our system. I tend to agree with the rest of what you're saying though.
  20. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    the best value lies with wilkerson......and the pats don't need to move up to get him.......watt is not worth moving up for......jordan is not worth moving up for.

    I see OT's like feguson pushing watt or jordan around pretty easily......I don't see them having the same success against wilkerson
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