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Lets face the facts (homers not welcome)


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Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

If the illegal taping was not of some competitive advantage Bill Belichick would not have been doing it.

Bill should do a Barbara Walters interview and confess the truth of what he was up to. At the end he can look into the camera and cry. The world would forgive him.
 
Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

Every answer would be

A) That's a league matter.
B) It is what is it.
C) That's in the past now, I'm focused on the draft.
 
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Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

So you are saying that if team A had inside knowledge (practice tapes, playbook, gameplan, etc.) of what team B was planning to do during a game, and team B had no idea of what team A was going to do, that it wouldn't make a difference at all?

I would agree with you if team B was LSU and team A was a high school team from Alaska. The talent levels in the NFL (except for QB) are not dramatically different from team to team. Giving a coaching staff inside information is a HUGE advantage. It doesn't guarantee a win, but it changes the balance of competition on the field.

Before anyone flames me, I'm not saying the Pats had inside information. Just saying that you can't dismiss all questionable practices (secret taping of practice, stealing gameplans, etc.) as having negligible effects on game results. Obviously, taping openly visible sideline signals does not rise to this level.

I am not talking about LSU and a high school team from Alaska, I am talking about 3 Super Bowl wins, in which any video taping could not have affected the outcome of. Games that were won on the field. I don't know where you are not understanding me.

I just realized... are we seriously having an argument over the definition of cheating, cheating in which we both agree did not happen? Do you just randomly start arguments on the internet?
 
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Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

well I dont think any of us really know if that is true or not...I dont have a copy of the NFL rulebook from 2002 handy. we know that the letter in 2006 addressed the issue, but we dont know if/how/how expressly illegal the act was before then.

Yes, we do. We have the NFL manual online.
 
Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

some people do.

I've already said that, for me, legacy matters. I want everyone to think that this was the best dynasty of all time.

It's not.

The Steelers and 49ers still have us beat.

So quit worrying.
 
Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

I think it is the only definition of a fan.....other people might follow sports for different reasons. But when you have 60,000 getting up, screaming and pumping their fists for a team, they clearly feel a part of it--self-worth, etc.

I screamed myself hoarse in multiple games this year, and not only for the Patriots but at UConn bball and a few others. I they had lost, it would not have dented my self-worth one bit. Not at all.

I have to go to work the next day and deal with much bigger problems, family members with bigger problems, or in general, with stuff that matters a heckuva lot more. Right now I'm taking a 10 minute break to read this message board. It's pure pleasure.
 
Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

no, I'm saying that some people are dumb.

for certain people, the perception of the situation (the Patriots only won by cheating) is what they think is true, instead of the actual reality (the Patriots gained little or no edge from their rule breaking).

I'm not saying it should be that way, I'm saying thats the way it is, whether we like it or not.

you know all those polls that vote on the "Best Dynasty Ever" etc etc? I would like the Pats to win those polls. I think thats fun. but the taping scandal is going to diminish our past and maybe even future accomplishments in the eyes of many.

and thats too bad.

thats my point.

You're giving people way too much credit.

Most people know it's BS but they go along with it for precisely the reasons Jimmy Johnson outlined. Most people don't take sports seriously enough to feel the need to be "fair" or consistent. They're hypocrites, and they simply don't care. Why? Because it's sports. Not life or death.

That's why when someone calls it cheating, I know instantly that they are simply being partisan fans. For instance, some Broncos were chirping about spygate. It's lost on them apparently that they violated the salary cap. Steve Young? Are you kidding me? He played for a mobbed up team that broke rules constantly.

Why do I have to give any credence to these people for their point of view, especially when some come to this board and refuse to accept any point of view other than their own.

Eff'em.
 
Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

I am not talking about LSU and a high school team from Alaska, I am talking about 3 Super Bowl wins, in which any video taping could not have affected the outcome of. Games that were won on the field. I don't know where you are not understanding me.

Here is what I don't agree with:

Gaining a competitive advantage, and executing on the field are 2 different things. Anyone who thinks the game is won or lost on gameplan alone, has never played the sport.

These types of statements are why anything we say about the Pats gets automatically dismissed as homerism. Would you make the same statement above if it was proven that the Fins got Brady's line calls through an illegal recording? Or if it was proven that the Giants got access to the Pats gameplan before the Super Bowl (I know they didn't)?

The Pats would still have to execute on the field, but their chances of winning the game would be severely compromised. Saying the Pats sideline filming didn't affect the outcome of any games is reasonable. Saying ANY not-in-game activities, not matter how sinister, doesn't affect the outcome of games is just silly.
 
Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

You're giving people way too much credit.

Most people know it's BS but they go along with it for precisely the reasons Jimmy Johnson outlined. Most people don't take sports seriously enough to feel the need to be "fair" or consistent. They're hypocrites, and they simply don't care. Why? Because it's sports. Not life or death.

That's why when someone calls it cheating, I know instantly that they are simply being partisan fans. For instance, some Broncos were chirping about spygate. It's lost on them apparently that they violated the salary cap. Steve Young? Are you kidding me? He played for a mobbed up team that broke rules constantly.

Why do I have to give any credence to these people for their point of view, especially when some come to this board and refuse to accept any point of view other than their own.

Eff'em.


x100
.
 
Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

It's not.

The Steelers and 49ers still have us beat.

So quit worrying.

Sweet! :rocker:

I'm good, that made my day!
 
Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

psshh...we're only at the halfway point.
 
Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

First of all, there's no damn apostrophe in "facts" in this usage.

Secondly, the facts seem to be that we have a report of Goodell saying that the taping goes back to 2000. He also says none of the Super Bowls or playoffs were "tainted". He also says, the door is always open for new evidence, and nobody seems to have any.

Thirdly, the fact is that the Dolphins and Jets have already been caught red-handed doing the same thing (though the Dolphins got their tape from a fan, as I understand it.) Furthermore, at least 1 former head coach says he did it, and he said that some of the holier-than-thou teams also did it. Many read this to mean the Colts, for what it is worth.

Fourthly, Goodell sent around a memo to the league in 2006 demanding cooperation with the rules regarding videotaping. This does not suggest that "nobody is doing it." It suggests that "illegal" taping was being done. Only by the Patriots? Sure. But then why send the memo to all 32 teams?

People can claim whatever they want to claim is "tainted." Specter's motives are beyond horrific: he claims to care because he is a sore loser. I buy this. But it also covers up a second agenda: serving his financiers at Comcast by bashing the league.

If Specter can finagle it, he'll have the league squirming. If the league is squirming and it can get off the hook by throwing the Pats under the bus, the league will do so.

It remains to be seen whether Specter will take it that far, and it remains to be seen whether the league will have that option.

But beyond the politics and personal motivation at the heart of this witch-hunt, at this point the League and, if it comes to it, the Senate, have a burden of proof beyond just that the Pats were taping.

They need to also prove that the Pats' taping activities were unusual as measured against the activities of the rest of the league.

Danny, you've gone after the Pats' first-round runningback, running around shrieking the sky is falling. Now you're going over to the "tarnished legacy" camp. And you do it all claiming that only homers could possibly believe otherwise.

You need to get it through your head that the objective fact is, we're screwed. Most fans hate us. A fan of a team we beat is coming after us, continuing the Mahe/McNabb quest for a ring for the losers. He's backed by the cable industry, because he's a soldier in the war against the NFLN, from their point of view.

Now then: tell me how objective that set up is.

In these times, my friend, you better be a homer, to some extent. The people coming after the Pats aren't objective, and they aren't pursuing fairness. When the playing field is defined by fairness, why of course I'll then put my loyalty on the shelf, and listen studiously to the charges against us.

For the time being, however, I take the prosecutor of these charges with a very, very large grain of salt.

PFnV
 
Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

.........If the league is squirming and it can get off the hook by throwing the Pats under the bus, the league will do so.

..................

But beyond the politics and personal motivation at the heart of this witch-hunt, ................

You need to get it through your head that the objective fact is, we're screwed. Most fans hate us. A fan of a team we beat is coming after us, continuing the Mahe/McNabb quest for a ring for the losers. He's backed by the cable industry, because he's a soldier in the war against the NFLN, from their point of view.

....................

PFnV
This is all true. IMO.

PATs and their Fans are the witch and the rest are the mob that want
to burn us at the stake.
It dosen't even matter if PATs really are a witch .... they will burn because
of the mob mentality that exist. This is a modern day witch hunt.
Reason and rationality will not exist in this matter ... it's a witch hunt.
Now we know how some people felt when they were burned at the stake
knowing they did nothing so wrong as to warrant such judgment.
And we think mankind has evolved ..... ??????
 
Think about it for a second. If BB was really concerned about the tapes that he turned over, why would he even turn them over when he infact had a good amount of time to destroy them prior to them being released.
 
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Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

Here is what I don't agree with:



These types of statements are why anything we say about the Pats gets automatically dismissed as homerism. Would you make the same statement above if it was proven that the Fins got Brady's line calls through an illegal recording? Or if it was proven that the Giants got access to the Pats gameplan before the Super Bowl (I know they didn't)?

The Pats would still have to execute on the field, but their chances of winning the game would be severely compromised. Saying the Pats sideline filming didn't affect the outcome of any games is reasonable. Saying ANY not-in-game activities, not matter how sinister, doesn't affect the outcome of games is just silly.

I am going to say this one more time and then I am done trying to explain myself... I was not talking about any other games OTHER than the 3 Super Bowl games.
 
Has a thread ever gone into negative stars? Am I finally going to get to see some history made?
 
Has a thread ever gone into negative stars? Am I finally going to get to see some history made?

Seriously!

Come on Ian!
Where's the -1 Star option?
 
This is the most idiotic premise I've ever heard... This whole issue is being just played up by the media dolts...
That's all I have to say about it.. GO PATS ! (I will remain a lifelong fan of this club)
 
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Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

Homer's not welcome?

I'm glad you're finally admitting you're not a fan of the team.

Some people don't understand that to be a true fan of a team, you MUST be a homer. You have to support the team no matter what. Let's remember, the TEAM is made up players. Those are the guys who shed their blood, sweat & tears. Since I know our players love our coach, who am I to question them. He has my support and loyalty no matter what.

I guess I'm just like other true Patriot fans.
 
Re: Lets face the fact's (homers not welcome)

In these times, my friend, you better be a homer, to some extent. The people coming after the Pats aren't objective, and they aren't pursuing fairness. When the playing field is defined by fairness, why of course I'll then put my loyalty on the shelf, and listen studiously to the charges against us.


PFnV

Excellent post!!! :rocker:
 
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