Jake Bequette, Chandler Jones, Rob Nincovich.

[Ivan]

I'm not expecting anything out of Bequette either, why would I? I also like Buchanon a lot.

It's not always about winning an argument every thread, though. I'm just imagining why he's still here, since there's no evidence we know.

For instance, Justin Francis had 3 sacks in limited action, was and is available, and looked dynamic to me. Yet he doesn't get a sniff. Maybe some are too focused on winning arguments to imagine their's some type of projection going on. Or maybe there isn't.

Of course a personnell addition could make this all moot.

When I used the term "argument" it was in the context of making your case or a point, not as an "argument" but simply stating your position beyond the point that "Belichick knows what he is doing." Apparently you have nothing beyond that or you would have already stated it. And yes Ray, if you are going to make a thread about something then it is wise to have some sort of point to make or question to ask, in this case you really haven't done anything more than use bandwidth for no apparent reason. We were already having the discussion in another thread and you apparently felt it was worth exapnding into a larger discussion, but for the life of me i am not sure why. Yes, Jake Bequette is on the roster, yes he has done nothing, yes he should be replacedm yes Belichick knows what he is doing, yes, it is a nice day out in New England.....................

 

[mgteich]

BUCHANAN
Several us wanted us to draft Buchanan, especially as the draft went into the late rounds.

BEQUETTE
He's a 3rd rounder in this third year. Belichick almost always allows one of his 2nd-4th round picks a couple of years to develop. That being said, Bequette has to be a disappointment to Belichick. This is his last camp, unless he improves greatly.

Some would say that he played behind Jones and Ninkovich, and didn't get reps because they were so solid. In part this is true. However, Bequette should have provided them SOME rest here and there.

The reality is that Bequette is our rotational DE until someone else is brought in and beats him out for a roster spot. He could have a 3rd year in development, but that seems unlikely unless he can contribute.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I loved the Bequette pick in the 3rd round. Some touted him a 2nd round pick so I definitely thought he was great value. If he doesn't work out I can't fault BB for taking a stab at him. His workouts were fantastic and his college production was really good. I'm not giving up hope for the player I just don't know enough about his situation to comment on why he doesn't play more. If it is football smarts or whatever. But your right, he has stuck on the roster and may have some Niko like talent ready to blossom sometime down the road.

 

[fierce]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned saying goodbye to Pepper as being related to the fact we haven't developed a DL draft pick other than Jones in a decade.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

That's all it is, I have zero knowledge of what's going on with the guy. Just a discussion of why he's still here, basically.

Despite not being a worthy contributor to this team on game day, BB has kept Beq around for some reason. I see no reason why a topic discussing why is so inappropriate.

Indeed, the point of a place like this is to engage in discussion about the team we all love to discuss.

 

[Brady6]

For the record, I was all over Buchanan as soon as I saw him. He's light, but he's so limber as a pass blocker and rusher, I'm assuming, if he bulks up.



I think the pass rusher class is weak as hell this year, too. I think Ealy and Dee Ford could get pushed up well past where they'd land in a different draft. Still hope Will Smith works out.

Buchanan is going to be one of the biggest breakout players on our roster in my opinion. He was light as you said but that was partly due to a broken jaw that prevented him from eating and maintaining his weight.

I have been following him on Instagram this offseason and he is hitting it hard in the training room. It shows the pictures I have seen he looks like he gained at least 15lbs. He is a raw talent, he reminds me a lot of Michael Johnson. He needed to add some weight which I think he has done and work on his technique. He lost reps because of run containment and missed gap assignments but that is all issues a full offseason in the NFL should help resolve.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is stealing reps from Ninkovich at LDE by mid season. If that happens it would allow us to use Ninkovich as a pass rushing 4-3 SAM LB in certain situations.

 

[RayClay]

When I used the term "argument" it was in the context of making your case or a point, not as an "argument" but simply stating your position beyond the point that "Belichick knows what he is doing." Apparently you have nothing beyond that or you would have already stated it. And yes Ray, if you are going to make a thread about something then it is wise to have some sort of point to make or question to ask, in this case you really haven't done anything more than use bandwidth for no apparent reason. We were already having the discussion in another thread and you apparently felt it was worth exapnding into a larger discussion, but for the life of me i am not sure why. Yes, Jake Bequette is on the roster, yes he has done nothing, yes he should be replacedm yes Belichick knows what he is doing, yes, it is a nice day out in New England.....................

I stated it was speculation and I wouldn't be surprised to see him cut tomorrow. I don't think we only have to have threads where someone takes a position and defends it to the death, so I guess we disagree there.

Seems to me, there isn't a lot to talk about, the draft isn't for another month and some other posters in the thread seem to have taken it in the spirit it was offered and have no problem with speculation about a player who is a mystery, but nevertheless has survived so far while many haven't.

How could i have a point other than Belichick is keeping him for some reason? I don't have access to practices, and no writer is writing about him.

I think Ian can spare the bandwidth about a player on the roster, it's not like we haven't had more frivolous threads.

 

[RayClay]

Despite not being a worthy contributor to this team on game day, BB has kept Beq around for some reason. I see no reason why a topic discussing why is so inappropriate.

Indeed, the point of a place like this is to engage in discussion about the team we all love to discuss.

Some get it, some don't. With the damn draft delay we'll be discussing the popcorn concession in another few weeks.

 

[Brady6]

Obviously, I didn't post this to start a "he sucks" turdfest, so if you're still torturing yourself about who we should have picked in the seventh round in 1999, this might not be the thread for you.



We've got a full month before the draft, nothing new is likely, so I thought I'd ruminate.



Chandler Jones was traded up for, has outplayed his scouting predictions and is just wonderful. We should have all first round picks on an all pro trajectory. Combine analysis below,







Of course we don't get a hand with four aces every year, so we have to develop players based on measurables, production or other factors overcoming their lack of completeness.



Rob Nincovich took 6 years before he became a starting player after being picked number 135 (5th). Players like that (IMO) are the difference between winners and losers. After all, the worst teams always have the best picks, so consensus top picks being the difference would mean worst to first scenarios every year, and that doesn't happen.



So, we come to 2012 number 90 (3rd) pick Bequette. He's been on the scout team, from what I've read, but never let go to the practice squad. He hasn't played near enough to make any real analysis, but he's stayed two full years, while players we could have used have been cut.



I'm assuming that BB, with his record, does things for a reason. Doesn't mean Bequette won't be the first cut, but just the fact he's still here. He was supposedly working at olb/DE but I'm speculating he might be lifting his way to a DE/T hybrid.



His weight at the combine was 274 and he's got a big frame. His three cone and 20/shuttle times were outstanding, each better than either Jones or Nink. Chandler is talented, Bequette is not going to get more talented, he is what he is in that regard. However, say he's 285-290 with that type of speed and agility? A rotational DE/DT like that could be quite valuable.



Or he could be cut tomorrow. Thoughts?

Great offseason topic Ray! Bequette is an enigma if ever, his talent level and college production made him a very intriguing draft choice. In 2012 he was seen by some as more NFL ready than Jones, and called a poor mans JJ Watt. That was obviously way the F off unfortunately, because he has been the invisible man for two seasons.

I have to believe there is a reason Bequette has been on the 53 man roster for two seasons though. He even has practice squad eligibility but yet they have not even attempted to cut him and sign him on to that. In OTAs the reports were impressive for Bequette last offseason and he was ok in the preseason but he just went ghost come week one.

Personally I think Belichick likes his talent/size and is attempting to develop him. I think he needed a lot of work in terms of strength and technique. He just turned 25 so he is young and he has two years left on his contract for short money so I wouldn't rule out him giving us production this seasons and next. I think everyone expects instant results but that isn't a realistic expectation for third rounders, that is where you see these developmental players like Bequette taken and it may take then one to two seasons to catch on. Bequette trains with Ninkovich a lot and that's actually a great example for him it took Ninkovich several years to develop into a NFL player.

 

[Deus Irae]

Despite not being a worthy contributor to this team on game day, BB has kept Beq around for some reason. I see no reason why a topic discussing why is so inappropriate.

Indeed, the point of a place like this is to engage in discussion about the team we all love to discuss.

The problem is that there's nothing to discuss.

Bequette - 3rd round draft pick who never plays, is usually inactive, and is still on the roster

Why? - We don't know

Will he make it this year? - We don't know

Is he improving to any real degree? - Doesn't look that way, given the stiffs who've passed him by come game day


Speculate - BB developing him/Possession of incriminating photos



/thread


A discussion of the popcorn concession, per RayClay's post, would probably be a better topic, with broader appeal and more on-topic responses.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Some get it, some don't. With the damn draft delay we'll be discussing the popcorn concession in another few weeks.

At least your topic was Pats related unlike others I have seen in here.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

The problem is that there's nothing to discuss.

Bequette - 3rd round draft pick who never plays, is usually inactive, and is still on the roster

Why? - We don't know

Will he make it this year? - We don't know

Is he improving to any real degree? - Doesn't look that way, given the stiffs who've passed him by come game day


Speculate - BB developing him/Possession of incriminating photos



/thread


A discussion of the popcorn concession, per RayClay's post, would probably be a better topic, with broader appeal and more on-topic responses.

Oh, please. 3/4's of what constitutes new threads in here falls into this category.

That's why I rarely spend time in here anymore. It's all regurgitation and silly arguments ... like this particular one.

 

[RayClay]

I loved the Bequette pick in the 3rd round. Some touted him a 2nd round pick so I definitely thought he was great value. If he doesn't work out I can't fault BB for taking a stab at him. His workouts were fantastic and his college production was really good. I'm not giving up hope for the player I just don't know enough about his situation to comment on why he doesn't play more. If it is football smarts or whatever. But your right, he has stuck on the roster and may have some Niko like talent ready to blossom sometime down the road.

We do have a "grass is greener on the other side" mentality here. Every unproven draft possibility is a future hall of famer, then a bust if he's not All Pro year one.

That's not the way the league works. At the bottom of round one and beyond, top first year like Jones had is the exception.

Bequettes situation seems weird, but that's what's interesting to me. We see Buchanan's potential and his need to gain weight and set the edge better.

Why Bequette and not "3 sacks in limited time" Francis? (who's still available)

 

[RayClay]

Great offseason topic Ray! Bequette is an enigma if ever, his talent level and college production made him a very intriguing draft choice. In 2012 he was seen by some as more NFL ready than Jones, and called a poor mans JJ Watt. That was obviously way the F off unfortunately, because he has been the invisible man for two seasons.

I have to believe there is a reason Bequette has been on the 53 man roster for two seasons though. He even has practice squad eligibility but yet they have not even attempted to cut him and sign him on to that. In OTAs the reports were impressive for Bequette last offseason and he was ok in the preseason but he just went ghost come week one.

Personally I think Belichick likes his talent/size and is attempting to develop him. I think he needed a lot of work in terms of strength and technique. He just turned 25 so he is young and he has two years left on his contract for short money so I wouldn't rule out him giving us production this seasons and next. I think everyone expects instant results but that isn't a realistic expectation for third rounders, that is where you see these developmental players like Bequette taken and it may take then one to two seasons to catch on. Bequette trains with Ninkovich a lot and that's actually a great example for him it took Ninkovich several years to develop into a NFL player.

Thank you sir. Another bit of context is the cost of a pass rusher in this draft. Of course all draftees are potential all pros, until they're drafted and become busts but...

This seems a pretty weak class. Dee Ford is being talked up as a late first rounder. Not that I know a lot about him (he's quick on tape) but is that a reflection of his ability, or the strength of that position?

He's apparently put on 50 pounds since entering college and the NFL site has him as a 4-5 round selection.

Dee Ford Draft Profile - NFL.com

I do think players we have, or can get in FA are relevant when we have limited draft picks and other needs.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh, please. 3/4's of what constitutes new threads in here falls into this category.

That's why I rarely spend time in here anymore. It's all regurgitation and silly arguments ... like this particular one.

I didn't make an argument. I noted a reality. A quick side-note in a thread about DEs is really all we've got the info for when it comes to Bequette. There's essentially no information on him beyond what I posted and his combine numbers/college stuff. That's not a failing of Patsfans.com. That's a feature of the BB-run Patriots, where information is deliberately kept in house as much as possible, and the media, where information about top players is prioritized far above information about the bottom few players.

Look over this thread, including RayClay's erroneous OP and follow up to my first post, and any follow up, on-point, Bequette posts. You'll find almost no information. In the spirit of the Patriots:


It is what it is.

In the slow times of the offseason like this, I wish it weren't the case. Unfortunately, it is.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I didn't make an argument. I noted a reality. A quick side-note in a thread about DEs is really all we've got the info for when it comes to Bequette. There's essentially no information on him beyond what I posted and his combine numbers/college stuff. That's not a failing of Patsfans.com. That's a feature of the BB-run Patriots, where information is deliberately kept in house as much as possible, and the media, where information about top players is prioritized far above information about the bottom few players.

Look over this thread, including RayClay's erroneous (even after editing) OP, and any follow up, on-point, Bequette posts. You'll find almost no information. In the spirit of the Patriots:


It is what it is.

Yet in marked contrast, other NFL teams have sufficient information on Mallett that they're supposedly ready to trade a decent draft pick for him. WTF???

 

[Deus Irae]

Yet in marked contrast, other NFL teams have sufficient information on Mallett that they're supposedly ready to trade a decent draft pick for him.

Multiple firsts, my good man. Coming soon..... :singing:




Imagine this board if something crazy like that really did happen.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

I didn't make an argument. I noted a reality. A quick side-note in a thread about DEs is really all we've got the info for when it comes to Bequette. There's essentially no information on him beyond what I posted and his combine numbers/college stuff. That's not a failing of Patsfans.com. That's a feature of the BB-run Patriots, where information is deliberately kept in house as much as possible, and the media, where information about top players is prioritized far above information about the bottom few players.

Look over this thread, including RayClay's erroneous OP and follow up to my first post, and any follow up, on-point, Bequette posts. You'll find almost no information. In the spirit of the Patriots:


It is what it is.

Your making an argument about not making an argument. IOW, like I said above .... regurgitation that end up in silly and petty, chest thumping, arguments .... like this one.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Multiple firsts, my good man. Coming soon..... :singing:




Imagine this board if something crazy like that really did happen.

I'd have to delete my account with all the ball busting coming my way

 

[Deus Irae]

Your making an argument about not making an argument. IOW, like I said above .... regurgitation that end up in silly and petty, chest thumping, arguments .... like this one.

You seem unclear on the difference between pointing out a problem and making an argument. I'm sorry about that. Perhaps a refresher language course would help you.

BTW, while finding the topic to be one that doesn't have much to it, I've at least added data and pointed out factual, thread-relevant mistakes in RayClay's post. You, on the other hand, jumped from Bequette to Buchanan in your very first post.