Jake Bequette, Chandler Jones, Rob Nincovich.

[TonyTucker]

So what do you call him? A three and 7/8 round pick? He was drafted in the third round, and he was a horrible pick. Sorry, you can't make him a fourth round pick no matter how hard you try.

 

[DaBruinz]

Go take a look at how often the BB Patriots cut 3rd rounders before the 3rd training camp.

Since 2000, the following players have been Patriots 3rd round picks:

2000:
Greg Robinson-Randall - Traded in March of 2003

2001:
Brock Williams - Cut in September 2002 after his 2nd TC.

2004:
Guss Scott - Cut during the 2005 season

2005:
Ellis Hobbs - Traded after the 2008 season.
Nick Kaczur - Cut prior to the 2010 season.

2006:
Dave Thomas - traded to New Orleans prior to the 2009 season.

2008:
Shawn Crable - Cut after 6 games in the 2010 season.
Kevin O’Connell - Cut in 2009 during pre-season.

2009:
Brandon Tate - Released after 2011 Pre-season.
Tyrone McKenzie - Cut in November 2010. Injured for 1 TC and attended the other.

2010:
Taylor Price - Cut in December 2011.

2011:
Steven Ridley (This will be his 4th TC)
Ryan Mallett (This will be his 4th TC)

2012:
Jake Bequette - This is Bequette's 3rd.

I didn't count Ryan and Harmon since this is only going to be their 2nd, so we have 14 picks including Bequette.

So, we have 5 picks that didn't make it through 3 TCs (Williams, Scott, O'Connell, McKenzie, Price). We have 6 picks (Robinson-Randall, Hobbs, Kaczur, Thomas, Ridley, Mallett) who have been through 3 (or more) TCs. And then we have 2 picks (Crable and Tate) who took part in 3 TCs but were cut during their 3rd season.

So, 8 of 13 who made it through 3 TCs (61.5%), 6 of which were kept through at least their entire 3rd season.

 

[RayClay]

Go take a look at how often the BB Patriots cut 3rd rounders before the 3rd training camp.

I don't know about before the 3rd "training camp" since it seems likely anyone still there gets one more chance.

Anyway, those who didn't start a third season, from a quick look see.

I believe Dowling and Crable wre both considered healthy when cut, they were just sick of them.

• Taylor Price
• Kevin O'Connell
  
• Tyrone McKenzie (injured)
• Shawn Crable
• Guss Scott (injured)
• Brock Williams
• Ras I Dowling

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't know about before the 3rd "training camp" since it seems likely anyone still there gets one more chance.

Anyway, those who didn't start a third season, from a quick look see.

I believe Dowling and Crable wre both considered healthy when cut, they were just sick of them.

• Taylor Price
• Kevin O'Connell
  
• Tyrone McKenzie (injured)
• Shawn Crable
• Guss Scott (injured)
• Brock Williams
• Ras I Dowling

Crable was cut in T.C. before year 3, the same as Dowling. As you noted, both Scott and McKenzie were injured. Williams was also an injury player, first popping his ACL and then injuring his ankle.

That leaves O'Connell and Price. That's what it takes for BB to think about cutting healthy 3rd round picks. A QB who couldn't QB, and WR who (reportedly) couldn't learn the playbook in 2 seasons.

 

[RayClay]

Crable was cut in T.C. before year 3, the same as Dowling. As you noted, both Scott and McKenzie were injured. Williams was also an injury player, first popping his ACL and then injuring his ankle.

That leaves O'Connell and Price. That's what it takes for BB to think about cutting healthy 3rd round picks. A QB who couldn't QB, and WR who (reportedly) couldn't learn the playbook in 2 seasons.

I don't understand why you would expect someone who made it through two years not to be invited to training camp.

What is the logic of that cutoff? If Bequette is cut the first day of training camp that's different than if he is cut tomorrow?

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't understand why you would expect someone who made it through two years not to be invited to training camp.

What is the logic of that cutoff? If Bequette is cut the first day of training camp that's different than if he is cut tomorrow?

The point is that healthy 3rd rounders (and above) get 3 offseasons to make it with the team, unless their washout level is through the roof. The idea that BB is just going to cut bait, regardless of draft round, has not been supported by the facts.

And, yes, Bequette getting cut in late July is different than Bequette getting cut in Mid-April.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Unless Bequette fails the conditioning test, I don't see a reason to cut him yet. Let him compete in Training Camp like everyone else, and if he still can't pass muster, then you cut bait.

 

[RayClay]

The point is that healthy 3rd rounders (and above) get 3 offseasons to make it with the team, unless their washout level is through the roof. The idea that BB is just going to cut bait, regardless of draft round, has not been supported by the facts.

And, yes, Bequette getting cut in late July is different than Bequette getting cut in Mid-April.

Well humor me and say that someone who lasted two whole seasons could get invited to training camp and then cut and still be a cut before season three. If they were going to cut him before training camp, why not during the season? What would they learn without a training camp that they didn't find out in two years worth of practices?

 

[Ivan]

A couple of points

1. I don't consider you an instant gratification guy
2. You have every reason to be disappointed. Everyone should......but
3. There is no reason to give up on a kid at 275 who can run a 4.75 40 and a sub 7 three cone at the end of 2 non-productive seasons.
4. It wasn't just ANY street FA (as you imply), it was the guy who just 2 years before was arguably the team's best defensive player. (2011)
5. I think the point here is not that we should have high expectations from Bequette, or any expectations for that matter. The thing that gets me are those who summarily think he should be cut now and anyone who believes differently is an idiot.
6. For me I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised to see him part of a successful DE rotation, getting 20 snaps a game. It would certainly solve a major issue if BOTH Buchanon and Bequette became productive players. Which would allow the Pats to concentrate on other areas of need like DT, LB, TE and OL

It isn't so much that I am "disappointed" Ken as it is that I feel like he has had every chance to show himself and simply has not done so. Unlike some here who blast Belichick any time a pick doesn't pan out i have realistic expectations and realize that after the first round the odds of a pick turning into a real contributor go down exponentially with each round, and every team misses on them. And regardless of his measureables he simply has not shown anything as a football player to this point, and the street free agents i was pointing to were Siliga and Chris Jones, who literally walked in and starting contributing while Bequette watched. I agree that cutting him now is senseless and my pointwas that he will have to turn into Mike wright and show up immediately and consistently to stick with this team this year, to this ppoint he has simply been a bust and a waste of a roster spot. And most unfortunately his lack of production and contribution puts them in a spot where they need to use a pick to replace him, and it would be much better for them if that need were not there because the pick could be better used elsewhere.

As far as those who trash Belichick for the pick go i think they are morons who sit at home armchair Quarterbacking and going on about how much better they could have done, when in all likelihood they probably even suck at fantasy football, and they would most definitely suck at it if they had the same drafting disadvantage Belichick deals with in real life.

 

[RayClay]

Unless Bequette fails the conditioning test, I don't see a reason to cut him yet. Let him compete in Training Camp like everyone else, and if he still can't pass muster, then you cut bait.

Makes sense to me, for anyone you've carried two full seasons too.

 

[Brady6]

The Patriots could have moved Bequette to the practice squad he has the eligibility but they opted not to, that tells me that they fear him being claimed by another team. If Belichick did not see some type of future upside to having Bequette he would have taken the risk and tried to slide him onto the practice squad. He has done it with players like Moore, Salas, Fortson, etc.

 

[willard]

Read that Brandon Graham is in the last year of his rookie contract and Philadelphia is offering him around.

Please, Please Scoop him up. Please Bill outbid everyone else: a 5th this year and a 6th through 4th conditional for next year.

Personally I would offer our 3rd straight up for him because I think the need for a 3rd quality DE is so great, but based on recent trades that seems high.

 

[captain stone]

Bequette had some of the most impressive metrics at the combine of any DE in 2012. Belichick did reach to draft him he was a legit third round prospect, especially at #90.

Height: 6045
Weight: 274
40 Yard Dash: 4.75
20 Yard Dash: 2.70
10 Yard Dash: 1.66
225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 09'05"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.07
3-Cone Drill: 6.90
No bench, shoulder...

I also forgot to mention that he has short arms and his 10-yard split sucked.

Bad pick then, even worse pick now.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well humor me and say that someone who lasted two whole seasons could get invited to training camp and then cut and still be a cut before season three. If they were going to cut him before training camp, why not during the season? What would they learn without a training camp that they didn't find out in two years worth of practices?

They've given them the opportunity to have the offseason and show what they can do in OTAs and/or camp, to see if the light's come on for them, so to speak. That's the difference.

Using your line of reasoning, why bother signing FAs in the offseason only to cut them before the season starts? What could they learn from Michael Jenkins that they couldn't have learned from years worth of tape, for example?

 

[captain stone]

Read that Brandon Graham is in the last year of his rookie contract and Philadelphia is offering him around.

Please, Please Scoop him up. Please Bill outbid everyone else: a 5th this year and a 6th through 4th conditional for next year.

Personally I would offer our 3rd straight up for him because I think the need for a 3rd quality DE is so great, but based on recent trades that seems high.

Graham would've been a better fit for us as a 3-4 OLB than he would be now as a 4-3 DE.

Edit: I responded to your post in the Brandon Graham thread, and I'm coming around to the idea that he could perhaps work here as a 4-3 DE, and that I would trade Jake Bequette to Philly for the privilege of finding out.

 

[Brady6]

I also forgot to mention that he has short arms and his 10-yard split sucked.

Bad pick then, even worse pick now.

Bequette does have short arms and that maybe part of his issue, but his 10-yard split was not poor at all, it was the exact same time as Chandler Jones had. I have been of the opinion since Bequette was rookie that he was a long-term project that Belichick was attempting to bulk up and convert to an interior DL where his short arms would not be a problematic against guards and centers.

 

[RayClay]

The Patriots could have moved Bequette to the practice squad he has the eligibility but they opted not to, that tells me that they fear him being claimed by another team. If Belichick did not see some type of future upside to having Bequette he would have taken the risk and tried to slide him onto the practice squad. He has done it with players like Moore, Salas, Fortson, etc.

Actually, having six games active means an accrued year and not eligible, so he used that up year one?

They've given them the opportunity to have the offseason and show what they can do in OTAs and/or camp, to see if the light's come on for them, so to speak. That's the difference.

Using your line of reasoning, why bother signing FAs in the offseason only to cut them before the season starts? What could they learn from Michael Jenkins that they couldn't have learned from years worth of tape, for example?

I would think the opportunity to play in games would show a lot more for someone who's been there two years.

 

[Brady6]

Actually, having six games active means an accrued year and not eligible, so he used that up year one?

I am pretty sure he still qualifies because he has not been on the active roster 9 times.

Eligibility

Practice squads are considered to be for developmental purposes. Therefore, veterans are not eligible to be signed to the practice squad. In fact, players with more than one year of accrued NFL service are not eligible. Here is a closer look at the eligibility requirements.

· A player is eligible if he does not have an accrued season of NFL experience. Players gain an accrued season by being on the active roster for at least six games.

· If a player has one accrued season, they can still be practice squad eligible if they were on the 45-man active gameday roster for less than nine regular season games.

· A player is deemed to have served a season on the practice squad if he remains on the practice squad for at least three weeks. Players are eligible to be on the practice squad for two seasons.

· Players can be eligible for a third practice squad season if their team maintains no less than 53 players on the active/inactive list at all times.