Hoge: Moss 'played his tail off'

[juny]

Don't know if this point has been in the dozen Moss threads, but it's interesting to see all this hype and yet Moss hasn't said anything -- it's always somebody new dumping on or defending him.

 

[stavros27]

That's usually how Moss is. He doesn't talk much. I think it's probably a good idea because when he does, he doesn't hold back. If I was him I'd love to rip the fans and media right about now.

I was looking for an article and came across this great quote from John Czarnecki from a few days after Moss was acquired, around May of 2007.

"What most football writers don't like about Randy Moss is that he has no time for them. His indifference toward them definitely influences their writing. Moss could care less about idle chit-chat in the locker room."

Moss will always be hated by the media no matter what he does on and off the field, good or bad. We saw it in 2007. We saw it in 2008. We see it this year. I wish I could see how his career was looked at if he was a media darling all along.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

That's usually how Moss is. He doesn't talk much. I think it's probably a good idea because when he does, he doesn't hold back. If I was him I'd love to rip the fans and media right about now.

I was looking for an article and came across this great quote from John Czarnecki from a few days after Moss was acquired, around May of 2007.

"What most football writers don't like about Randy Moss is that he has no time for them. His indifference toward them definitely influences their writing. Moss could care less about idle chit-chat in the locker room."

Moss will always be hated by the media no matter what he does on and off the field, good or bad. We saw it in 2007. We saw it in 2008. We see it this year. I wish I could see how his career was looked at if he was a media darling all along.

like marvin harrison? they'd bury stories about you shooting people on the back pages.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Here's another related link. Sorry if it's already been posted:

ESPN duo: Randy Moss no quitter - BostonHerald.com

 

[rj8806]

No offense to Merrill Hoge intended, but who cares what he thinks he saw.

He is implying that his infinite football eye and mind, along with "coaches tape", give him some insight that is greater than that of everyone else?

Bull-kaka.

I have been watching football at all levels for 40 years, and have covered High School ball as a stringer for the Sun-Sentinel (South Florida) and I know when a player (especially a receiver or cornerback (bacause they are just easier to see) is dogging it.

And trust me, Merrill, Randy Moss was dogging it on Sunday in Foxboro!

Now, that said, I hope he got his little petulant, "I got disrespected" temper tantrum out of the way and can get focused for the playoff run of this season.

Trust you? Lemme get this straight...... We/I am supposed to "trust you" because you have been WATCHING football for 40 years and cover high school football for some news rag and that qualifies you as being better at seeing someone dogging it over an ex NFL player who now analyzes the game for a living? Over a guy who has access to game tape (and not just TV camera views)?

GMAB. Hmmmmmmm Monday morning arm chair quarterback vs. Ex NFL player who now gets paid to analyze games? Tough call for sure.......I think I'll go with who is Hoge for $1000 Alex.

 

[DarrylS]

D & C are growing tired of Tiger Woods, and are beating this story to death again, and again, and again..

 

[Rob0729]

Ok, I am still a little dubious of Hoge's analysis, but listening to a clip of him on the radio I am absolutely sure he is a moron. In the clip he said that Sunday's game was "probably one of his best games without the ball in his hands that I’ve seen him play over his career." I admit I missed that in the article, but is sounds even dumber when you hear him say it. So, does it mean, that is one of his best games when he is totally taken out of the gameplan or shutdown by the players covering him? It is one his best games when he played like crap?

You know, as John Dennis (who is a moron himself) said, if he said people are overanalyzing three plays and most of the other plays you didn't see because he wasn't the focus of the ball he was doing a great job blocking and playing the decoy, then he would have some credibility. By saying it was the best game he played without catching the ball considering he is the Pats' primary WR and expected to catch at least 5 or so passes a game, just makes him sound stupid.

I am done arguing Moss and his performance, but I think the stupidity of Merril Hoge should never be a topic that should be dropped. I still don't get why he has a job. Check that, I know why. He is the perfect ESPN analyst. He says "controversial" and over the top things which ESPN loves.

 

[aluminum seats]

Well, I dunno--it does look like Moss could fight DBs a bit more, and he does alligator arm some stuff, but his overall effort sure seems to be there since he's been a Pat.

But I'd like to comment on this "year and a half study with a team of ESPN analysts." BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Are they studying Moss like the Zapruder film? Is this the Wire? I'm sorry, that's ridiculous.

 

[Rob0729]

Are you really implying that you know more than an professional analyst who watches gametape for a living (I'm not saying he's good at it) who played PROFESSIONAL football for eight years and has worked with it countless years after that and has been around the game his entire life?

You really think the way the players are the same as they are in high school. I don't think that you, or anyone including me on this board for that matter, can say whether or not Randy Moss was dogging it.

If you have really been around the game for so long, you should know the differences between coaches' tape and what you get on television.

I'm not saying that Merril Hoge has the credibility to declare whether or not Randy Moss was dogging it, but he certainly has more than you. Of course you are entitled to your own opinion, but none of us have access to those coaches' tapes, so we don't even have access to the materials that Hoge has.

Well, I will give Hoge the benefit of the doubt in this case just because no one who has actually seen the coaches' tape has disputed him from what I know, but in general I will take a football fan with 40 years of watching football's opinion over Hoge. Hoge is one of the worst football analysts going.

 

[emoney_33]

Ok, I am still a little dubious of Hoge's analysis, but listening to a clip of him on the radio I am absolutely sure he is a moron. In the clip he said that Sunday's game was "probably one of his best games without the ball in his hands that I’ve seen him play over his career." I admit I missed that in the article, but is sounds even dumber when you hear him say it. So, does it mean, that is one of his best games when he is totally taken out of the gameplan or shutdown by the players covering him? It is one his best games when he played like crap?

When you are blocking and running routes taking 2 defenders out of the play, those are "without the ball in his hands". I think the point he was trying to make, and maybe with too much emphasis, was that Moss put in a lot of effort on plays that were not throws to him (i.e. away from the ball)

You know, as John Dennis (who is a moron himself) said, if he said people are overanalyzing three plays and most of the other plays you didn't see because he wasn't the focus of the ball he was doing a great job blocking and playing the decoy, then he would have some credibility. By saying it was the best game he played without catching the ball considering he is the Pats' primary WR and expected to catch at least 5 or so passes a game, just makes him sound stupid.

Hoge, whether true or not, was saying it was the best he has ever seen Moss blocking, route running etc... while not getting the ball. It doesn't mean it was his best overall game, or that it was better than if he were catching balls etc... D&C should be banned from ever reaching an audience.

I am done arguing Moss and his performance, but I think the stupidity of Merril Hoge should never be a topic that should be dropped. I still don't get why he has a job. Check that, I know why. He is the perfect ESPN analyst. He says "controversial" and over the top things which ESPN loves.

I have no opinion on Hoge, because I rarely listen to any of these morons anymore. I learn more here than I ever will watching/listening to the idiot talking heads. And I absolutely refuse to listen to any of the idiots on local radio. D&C is probably the dumbest show I've ever had the misfortune of listening too. I'd rather listen to nails scratching a chalkboard than hear those two morons misanalyze every single thing they talk about.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Don't know if this point has been in the dozen Moss threads, but it's interesting to see all this hype and yet Moss hasn't said anything -- it's always somebody new dumping on or defending him.

Yeah, even if Moss wanted to say something (which I am pretty sure he doesn't), it would be a mistake either because he would let it all hang out or because the mediots would distort and twist whatever he did say.

I just hope that Randy is using this time to find his way to a place where he can just put the events and stories of the last couple of weeks behind him. There are big games coming up!

 

[Rob0729]

When you are blocking and running routes taking 2 defenders out of the play, those are "without the ball in his hands". I think the point he was trying to make, and maybe with too much emphasis, was that Moss put in a lot of effort on plays that were not throws to him (i.e. away from the ball)



Hoge, whether true or not, was saying it was the best he has ever seen Moss blocking, route running etc... while not getting the ball. It doesn't mean it was his best overall game, or that it was better than if he were catching balls etc... D&C should be banned from ever reaching an audience.



I have no opinion on Hoge, because I rarely listen to any of these morons anymore. I learn more here than I ever will watching/listening to the idiot talking heads. And I absolutely refuse to listen to any of the idiots on local radio. D&C is probably the dumbest show I've ever had the misfortune of listening too. I'd rather listen to nails scratching a chalkboard than hear those two morons misanalyze every single thing they talk about.

My point was that Moss was taken out of the game. When the ball came his direction, at least two of the three times he blew the play (and I am not talking dogging it just that what he did failed the particular play) Whether or not Moss was trying or he was doing great blocking and other things, it is hard to argue he had a good game. To argue this is one his best games without touching the ball is a stupid argument. Moss gets paid to catch balls first and blocking is a secondary responsibility.

I am just saying it goes to the intelligence of Hoge. Instead of making a case that although Moss made mistakes and was taken out of the passing game, he did a lot of things right and made a strong effort all game; he had to go overboard and turn what he consider a great effort in a bad game into a great game eventhough he didn't do what a primary WR is supposed to - catch the ball and hold onto it. Again, I am not turning this into anything on Moss, but the stupidity of Hoge. It would be like arguing in a game where Brady completed only 20% of his passes and threw 4 picks, but seemlessly handed off the ball and called a snap count that caused the defense to commit 6 offside penalties, the best game Brady has played without being on target in the passing game.

As for Dennis and Callahan, I agree they are morons. I said so. I do agree with Dennis in this case. It is one thing to go against the grain and point out that the public perception is wrong about Moss dogging it, but it is another to take the next step and praise him for having a great game for catching one ball for 16 yards which is fumbled away.

 

[emoney_33]

My point was that Moss was taken out of the game. When the ball came his direction, at least two of the three times he blew the play (and I am not talking dogging it just that what he did failed the particular play) Whether or not Moss was trying or he was doing great blocking and other things, it is hard to argue he had a good game. To argue this is one his best games without touching the ball is a stupid argument. Moss gets paid to catch balls first and blocking is a secondary responsibility.

I think you are just getting caught up on the words chosen. I took it to mean the following:

If you take every game Moss has played and removed every ball thrown his way, this would have been the most effective game he has played. Simply saying that throughout the game Hoge felt he had given his most consistent effort on plays away from the ball. He is not saying it was his best game played of the games in which he didn't get the ball, or something like that. It's simply complimenting his effort when he didn't get the ball.

I am just saying it goes to the intelligence of Hoge. Instead of making a case that although Moss made mistakes and was taken out of the passing game, he did a lot of things right and made a strong effort all game; he had to go overboard and turn what he consider a great effort in a bad game into a great game eventhough he didn't do what a primary WR is supposed to - catch the ball and hold onto it.

That's where your misinterpretation is coming, not what Hoge actually meant. He meant the former not the latter. He did not mean it was a great game because of the plays away from the ball. He meant it was his best collection of away-from-the-play effort in any game he has watched.

Again, I am not turning this into anything on Moss, but the stupidity of Hoge. It would be like arguing in a game where Brady completed only 20% of his passes and threw 4 picks, but seemlessly handed off the ball and called a snap count that caused the defense to commit 6 offside penalties, the best game Brady has played without being on target in the passing game.

No I understand it's about Hoge, but I'm just pointing out that you are misinterpreting Hoge's statements.

As for Dennis and Callahan, I agree they are morons. I said so. I do agree with Dennis in this case. It is one thing to go against the grain and point out that the public perception is wrong about Moss dogging it, but it is another to take the next step and praise him for having a great game for catching one ball for 16 yards which is fumbled away.

Dennis is indeed a moron, and in this case he may have tricked you into his misunderstandings . Hoge never praised him for having a great game. Hoge countered the argument that Moss dogged it by claiming that Moss' effort away from the ball was the best Hoge has personally seen in any game. There's a big difference.

 

[SVN]

Peter king's response on twitter ..typical "Surprised. If he played so well, why was he never open?"

All these stories are about 'access' .King calls moss a classic prima donna but favre just loves the game because he grants them interviews .
Same with dennis/callahan or any media writer. if moss was cozying up to any one the major media writers like king/silver/freeman/ etc they wouldnt such strong opinions. in fact moss and BB are kinda like the same....so media writes whatever they want about him

 

[Rob0729]

I think you are just getting caught up on the words chosen. I took it to mean the following:

If you take every game Moss has played and removed every ball thrown his way, this would have been the most effective game he has played. Simply saying that throughout the game Hoge felt he had given his most consistent effort on plays away from the ball. He is not saying it was his best game played of the games in which he didn't get the ball, or something like that. It's simply complimenting his effort when he didn't get the ball.



That's where your misinterpretation is coming, not what Hoge actually meant. He meant the former not the latter. He did not mean it was a great game because of the plays away from the ball. He meant it was his best collection of away-from-the-play effort in any game he has watched.




No I understand it's about Hoge, but I'm just pointing out that you are misinterpreting Hoge's statements.



Dennis is indeed a moron, and in this case he may have tricked you into his misunderstandings . Hoge never praised him for having a great game. Hoge countered the argument that Moss dogged it by claiming that Moss' effort away from the ball was the best Hoge has personally seen in any game. There's a big difference.

How can you misinterpret the things he say. He has the subtilty of a jackhammer.

"Last week was one of the best efforts I've seen from him, as far as not having the ball in his hands."

"This was one of his better games, away from the ball."

And his only real criticism of Moss was on the INT:

"That route wasn't the best route, he could've come out of his break better," Hoge said, before adding that Moss' effort was the third factor on the pick. The first was Chris Gamble playing outside technique, which meant that it was a risky decision to throw it there in the first place. "But it's Tom Brady and Randy Moss, so you take that chance," Hoge said.

Moss may have tried in the game and did some things right, but he had a horrible game. Hoge tries to argue otherwise. He never even remotely insinuates that Moss had a bad game and several times said it was one of his best under when he doesn't catch the ball.

He even states that the reason why he didn't catch any ball other than the fumbled one was because he was a decoy and Brady never looked in his direction.

"I'll say this: he didn't take a play off, not one play did he take off," Hoge said, emphatically. "Just to add to that, I'd say 60 percent of the time, Tom Brady didn't look to his side, based on the coverage. He knew he was being taken out of the game."

So he spun the fact that Moss was being taken out of the play on routes to make it sound like it was all part of the plan.

Sorry, I don't know how you can spin it otherwise. Hoge is a moron. He went overboard to make a point. That is his MO. Many times he has a good point and bastardizes it with his over-the-top style making him look foolish.

Again, not disputing him saying that Moss tried hard on every play (still don't know if I trust his analysis, but barring someone to dispute him who watched the coaches' film, I will not dispute it), I am just stating how he goes overboard to prove his point to make a bad game into a good game when even his best defenders would say Moss had a bad game with some good things.

 

[emoney_33]

Seems your dislike of Hoge is getting in the way here. Saying Moss had a good game away from the ball is not going over the top. It's a fair comment and not really one to get hung up on. Just because he doesn't produce stats, doesn't mean he isn't doing good things. You can assume many things about why he wasn't targetted much, but fact of the matter is he was only thrown to what was it 4 times? The 2nd half gameplan was much about getting quick routes to Welker and some mismatches to Watson.

If the Panthers did a good job in focusing on Moss with the double coverage, why do we have to harp only on Moss not getting the stats? Should the gameplan have been changed to force Moss the ball to attempt at getting him some stats, so that you can justify the subjective statement of good game? I don't really care about what Hoge said one way or the other, because in my mind it is NORMAL for Moss to be having good games and helping the team even on plays he doesn't get the ball. Moss just being on the field is having a good game, relatively speaking of course

 

[emoney_33]

Peter king's response on twitter ..typical "Surprised. If he played so well, why was he never open?"

All these stories are about 'access' .King calls moss a classic prima donna but favre just loves the game because he grants them interviews .
Same with dennis/callahan or any media writer. if moss was cozying up to any one the major media writers like king/silver/freeman/ etc they wouldnt such strong opinions. in fact moss and BB are kinda like the same....so media writes whatever they want about him

Most of the media are a bunch of children running around desperately trying to talk to grown men about a game. So how dare some of these men not want to speak with them!

 

[oldskool138]

Most of the media are a bunch of children running around desperately trying to talk to grown men about a game. So how dare some of these men not want to speak with them!

Most sports writer's are on a par with "Mean Gene" Okerlund

 

[Rob0729]

Seems your dislike of Hoge is getting in the way here. Saying Moss had a good game away from the ball is not going over the top. It's a fair comment and not really one to get hung up on. Just because he doesn't produce stats, doesn't mean he isn't doing good things. You can assume many things about why he wasn't targetted much, but fact of the matter is he was only thrown to what was it 4 times? The 2nd half gameplan was much about getting quick routes to Welker and some mismatches to Watson.

If the Panthers did a good job in focusing on Moss with the double coverage, why do we have to harp only on Moss not getting the stats? Should the gameplan have been changed to force Moss the ball to attempt at getting him some stats, so that you can justify the subjective statement of good game? I don't really care about what Hoge said one way or the other, because in my mind it is NORMAL for Moss to be having good games and helping the team even on plays he doesn't get the ball. Moss just being on the field is having a good game, relatively speaking of course

Stop insinuating that I am some kind of moron and can't make judgments objectively. Maybe you cannot make decisions without biases and are projecting it on me, but I can. You don't know how I think and stop making it sound like you can.

Saying he had a good game away from the ball is not over the the top. Saying Moss had one of his best games of his career away from the ball is going over the top. Saying he did a great job at certain things, saying it was one of his best games of his career doing those things is another. I bet you if you went through the game tapes of Moss' career, you can find better examples of him run and screen blocking in potentially dozens of games.

Moss has been double covered all year and every year of his career. Let's not act like the Panthers did anything different.

Hoge went over the top, but that is his style. It makes him look like a moron even if the underlying point is valid. Whether if he is talking about his overall game or just his run blocking, I am pretty sure he is using hyperbole. If this was one of Moss' best performances run blocking of his career, don't you think Belichick, Brady, or another Patriot would have stated that?

Do you really think he did one of his best jobs ever run blocking or screen blocking? Or playing the decoy? He might have played well in that area, but if it was his best we would have seen it more.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

I thought perhaps the most interesting thing Hoge said was that from the end zone, the ball that Randy alligator armed was tipped. That's one of the two most highlighted plays about how Moss was supposedly "dogging it."