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Hoge: Moss 'played his tail off'

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  1. 2000army

    2000army Rookie

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    Hoge: Moss 'played his tail off' - Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston



    When ESPN analyst Merril Hoge first began watching coaches tape of the Patriots' 20-10 win over the Panthers, he anticipated that he would see a lackluster effort from Randy Moss.

    He didn't.

    Now, after a few days in which Moss has been blasted by critics, Hoge is stepping forward to defend him.

    "I didn't see one play where he was sitting around, quit, or was 'useless.' If you're going to use the words 'useless' and 'quit', I'd need to see some stronger evidence than words that come out of a losing locker room," Hoge said. "After I looked at the tape, based on the things I had heard, I expected to see the dog days of Randy Moss. But there was nothing of the sort. He played his tail off.

    "This one was wrong. He needed a voice. I was a player, and if I went in to watch tape of myself, saw what I saw, and then read the things that were out there, I would be so furious and upset, asking 'Are you kidding me?'"

    Hoge made the point that TV copy of games "never tells the truth."

    "When you get caught up watching TV, you might think you know things," he said. "But when you put on [coaches] tape, that's the real story."

    Hoge will be sharing his thoughts on SportsCenter and NFL Live today.

    I'll plan on posting a few more of his observations later in the day.




    And again ... more detailed....



    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2009/12/hoge_coming_to.html





    OK, so got in touch with ESPN analyst Merril Hoge a few minutes ago, who'd seen what I wrote a few days ago, and wanted to talk about Randy Moss' performance.

    First, some background. Hoge told me that about a decade ago, he and some other analysts at ESPN did a year-and-a-half study to prove that Moss was loafing. It took that long because those guys felt like they needed to be fair -- based on the fact that it was a pretty strong criticism -- and wanted a large body of work. And so they went with it, with video of Moss standing around at the snap of some plays and jogging through routes as evidence.

    After studying Moss' effort Sunday against the Panthers, this former Steeler says he saw something completely different.

    "I'll say this -- He didn't take a play off, not one play did he take off," Hoge said, emphatically. "Just to add to that, I'd say 60 percent of the time, Tom Brady didn't look to his side, based on the coverage. He knew he was being taken out of the game."

    Hoge said the Panthers played Moss the way the Bears used to -- pressing with a corner and keeping a safety 20-25 yards deep over the top. It obviously worked.

    And Hoge allowed that Carolina changed their coverage as the game went on, which is what the Panther defensive backs told me on Sunday. But he added that his effort didn't waver, at least not on tape.

    "I've watched every game from him -- except for a couple he had with the Raiders -- and I've never seen with do (what he did in those early days with the Vikings) again," Hoge said. "Last week was one of the best efforts I've seen from him, as far as not having the ball in his hands. He made 8-10 important blocks in the running game."

    As for the interception ...

    "That route wasn't the best route, he could've come out of his break better," Hoge said, before adding that Moss' effort was the third factor on the pick. The first was Chris Gamble playing outside technique, which meant that it was a risky decision to throw it there in the first place. "But it's Tom Brady and Randy Moss, so you take that chance," Hoge said.

    The second factor was the throw, which was altered by Julius Peppers getting inside pressure, keeping Brady from properly stepping into it. And the third was the route.

    "I understand where (the Panthers DBs) are coming from," Hoge said. "But to be fair, Moss has never been a great route-runner. It's not his forte. It's not his position to do that. He's never been a sharp, crisp route-runner, and that's not what anyone fears in him."

    Hoge added that the Patriots used Moss to free up others, by motioning and running stack-release sets that allowed Wes Welker and Co. to get off the line cleanly.

    If it seems we're hearing different things here, then maybe we are. But Hoge was adamant about his point, which he'll make again on the 2 p.m. Sportscenter and 4 p.m. NFL Live.

    "If I thought he quit, I'd be the first to say it," Hoge said. "This was one of his better games, away from the ball."
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  2. Rob0729

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    I will conceed that the coach's film may have shown a different story than what we saw on the TV. Wasn't at the game so don't have that view either. From the TV view, it looked like he dogged it.

    I would rather hear from Jaws than Hoge though. Hoge is a moron, but he might have a point.

    But then again, two people watch the coaches' films and see two different things. But Hoge backs up Cossel. So I will conceed that Moss might have quit on a handful of plays and not the overall game.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  3. 2000army

    2000army Rookie

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    He studied Moss dogging it in Minnesota and Oakland for a year and a half ... I think he has some merit
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  4. signbabybrady

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    WOW SOMEONE ACTUALLY DID SOME WORK AND DECIDED TO LOOK AT THE FILM TO SEE IF HE WAS DOGGING IT:eek:


    and Hoge of all people....Guess I have to give him some credit his homerism has made me grow to hate him but I can live with homerism if I trust he does work to support his thoughts.

    I don't always watch the games a second time especially now that I am back to work and when I do it is the TV film anyway but One thing that stands out to me about Moss and I have noticed it the whole time he has been here is that he is willing to run block and I use that as evidence to his work ethic. If he was dogging it his run blocking would be the first to go. I am not saying he is a great run blocker but you can clearly see effort on most if not all run plays that are ran in his direction. And I know I saw some nice run blocks and screen blocks vs the Panthers.
  5. mayoclinic

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    Hoge has an anti-Pats bias, but I think he's right on with this. Watching some of the replay on NFL Total Access, Moss made a couple of nice blocks for Welker. And the INT was clearly a horrible throw from Brady.

    The only real criticism I have of Moss is that he isn't very aggressive about keeping the defensive back form making the interception. I thought he could have done more to stop the Vontae Davis interception in the end zone against Miami, for example. But overall I think the reports of his "giving up" and dogging it are exaggerated.
  6. Rob0729

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    But if you listen to people on this board, Moss didn't dog it in Oakland and it was just a media creation.

    I don't really value Hoge's opinion on much of anything, but he backs up Cossel. So I use him supporting evidence. I still think Jaws is the best at breaking down game film on TV and would love to hear his opinion.
  7. Disco Volante

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    Hoge has now defended 4th & 2, Late-Gate and the Moss performance.

    He's cool in my book from now on.
  8. Rob0729

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    But unfortunately, Moss doesn't always try to break up passes he cannot catch for a while. I have learned to live with that. I wouldn't have made as much of a deal about it if it was an individual play on Sunday, but I felt it was a bigger concern like the alligator arms and not protecting the ball better. But if he gave his effort most of the rest of the game, I will apologize for saying he quit. He just didn't give a good enough effort on several plays.
  9. Rob0729

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    He's still an arse and is an idiot. Being Pro Patriots/Belichick doesn't change my opinion of that. Even when Peter King was the biggest Patriots ball washer in the world, I thought he was a moron.

    It is just nice to see Hoge not trying to bash the Pats every time he can.
  10. Armen Da Pats Fan

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    No offense to Merrill Hoge intended, but who cares what he thinks he saw.

    He is implying that his infinite football eye and mind, along with "coaches tape", give him some insight that is greater than that of everyone else?

    Bull-kaka.

    I have been watching football at all levels for 40 years, and have covered High School ball as a stringer for the Sun-Sentinel (South Florida) and I know when a player (especially a receiver or cornerback (bacause they are just easier to see) is dogging it.

    And trust me, Merrill, Randy Moss was dogging it on Sunday in Foxboro!

    Now, that said, I hope he got his little petulant, "I got disrespected" temper tantrum out of the way and can get focused for the playoff run of this season.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  11. emoney_33

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    Did you intentionally skip this part:

    He studied him for a year and a half in MINNESOTA not Oakland. He then said he watched every game except a few from the Raiders, and NEVER saw him dog it again.

    You keep grasping for your TV feed eyeball test straws though.
  12. SVN

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    maybe peter king will read what hoge has to say after he had very strong words for moss saying he regretted havinghim in his all decade team like that is the ultimate pedestal for anyone playing football..
  13. Rob0729

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    You keep on listening to Merril Hoge. Hoge is a moron. If he says that without coorberation from anyone else who actually knows what they are talking about, then I don't believe a word he says. He is the same guy who picked against the Eagles every week for 8 weeks in 2004 all the way to the Super Bowl because when he broke down the film, he saw a mediocre team ripe for the picking.

    BTW, isn't Hoge in the media? So it is ok to listen to the media when it supports your argument and not when it doesn't. Jaws broke down the film on Moss earlier this year and said Moss was dogging it. Not that I agree with him, but he is much better at reviewing game film than Hoge.

    Also, you said he has never dogged it and you are using a guy who said he has as your evidence. So it isn't an 100% media creation,
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  14. BSR

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    Silly me, I just went by Belichick and Brady's word on it.
  15. klinefan

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    God bless this beautiful, beautiful man. It brings tears to my eyes. For the things he said and the way he said it. God bless Randy Moss too.

    So it was all a LIE!

    And now the liars must be punished. Libel suit probably wouldn't work, they would hide behind "it's was just my opinion". But I think at a minimum if any Pats see these guys, they should give them a beat down. Beat it into them that they must not lie about Randy Moss! How is he supposed to get open all the time if he's double coveraged-aroo?
  16. emoney_33

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    Rob, you can't take one of Hoge's comments and use it as your basis as a backhanded remark towards me, and then when I correct you, just dismiss Hoge altogether. I'm not going to get into Hoge's football IQ here but be consistent please.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  17. emoney_33

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    He has never dogged it as a Patriots player. He has never and I do not expect him to ever quit on the Patriots. He will finish his career in New England. Please do not put words in my mouth.
  18. patman12

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    Hoge gets it.

    Hopefully his analysis will shut up some of the more vocal Moss-hating, uninformed idiots.
  19. Rob0729

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    Personally, I don't value what Hoge has to say EVER unless someone else with football knowledge coorberates what he says. I am consistent on this.

    I am just pointing out the guy said he has dogged it in the past. If he was the only guy saying it, I would agree with you that he is pulling it out of his arse.

    I will apologize for the backhanded remark. I was out of line.
  20. Rob0729

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    I wouldn't bet Moss will finish his career here. If guys like McGinest and Vrabel didn't finish their careers here, I wouldn't bet on Moss either. No one is guaranteed to spend their end of their career with the Pats.
  21. klinefan

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    He's the type of guy who is rich enough that he isn't going to work somewhere he doesn't want to, just won't. Will demand an outright cut or will just retire or threaten to.

    This story parallels many myths in that a demi-god comes to earth, is persecuted unfairly and finally killed by the angry mob of idiots, only to rise up again and be worshipped as the true god he is.

    *not saying that people dogging moss wanted to kill him or were idiots, just that the parallel is there.
  22. Rob0729

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    I don't know. I think both McGinest and Vrabel would have taken less to stay here. Sometimes it isn't money. Belichick at a certain point in most player's careers just decides to move on no matter the cost. Moss may be willing to play here for free and Belichick could still say no and it may have nothing to do with how he feels about him personally or whether he felt he gave an effort every game or not.
  23. patriots pam

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    Man, he'll say anything to distract from the Steelers downward spiral this year, huh? :D

    I still think he's a homerific dink, but it is refreshing to see that he's not jumping on the anti-Pats team/coach/player dog-faker-pile on these issues, when it would be all too easy right now.

    2009. The season I had to thank Merrill friggin Hoge for speaking out in defense of the Pats. :stars2:
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  24. emoney_33

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    We'll have to wait and see, but I think it's fairly obvious he'll be retiring here.
  25. Zeus

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    Bill Belichick replaced Bernie Kosar in Cleveland, Drew Bledsoe in New England, suspended Terry Glenn during the 2001 season, cut Lawyer Milloy, traded Richard Seymour ...

    So why would he tolerate an unacceptable level of effort from Randy Moss?

    There's only one opinion that matters - not Felger, not Peter King, not any of the Sporting Press or Talking Heads.

    BB's opinion is the one that counts. Period. His track record is that he operates on facts, not emotions. The game film does not lie.

    The logical conclusion is that Belichick is comfortable with Moss; we know this because Moss continues to play, snap after snap after snap. No other explanation makes sense.
  26. emoney_33

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    I do not see Moss trying to play if he deteriorates to the point where he cannot produce and does not command double teams. As long as he commands double teams, he will have a lot of value as a player. Leaving the possibility that BB would cut/trade him because he felt he didn't give an effort every game means you have not been paying attention.
  27. Rob0729

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    I don't think it is fairly obvious anyone is going to retire here outside of Brady and maybe Faulk. Only two players have thus far been given the ability to retire with the Pats under any circumstance thus far have been Bruschi and Brown. I don't think Moss is close to Belichick's heart as either of those guys. Both had histories with Belichick back to 1996.

    If you think it is obvious that Moss will retire here unless he plays to retire in the next year or two, you haven't been following this team. Virtually everyone is cutable or tradeable under the right circumstances.
  28. Rob0729

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    But you don't know when Moss will retire (or if he won't be one of those players who decides to stay at the dance for a year or two too long than they should have) or if he will take less to stay here when his contract is up in a year or if Belichick decides to move on. Sorry, you don't know any of the potential situations that might occure over the next few years that could cause the Pats and Moss to part ways.

    Who said I said he would cut or trade him because he didn't give an effort. Belichick could think he plays his heart out and there is no guarantee that Belichick will resign him when his contract is up. There is no guarantee that Moss won't try to get one last decent deal when his contract is up and the Pats refusing to match another offer.

    If you do, you are clearly biased on the situation and not looking at this team objectively.

    And BTW, I can see Moss getting to the point where his skills disapear overnight. Look at many elite WR in their mid-30s and that is exactly what happened to them. WRs can hit the age wall pretty hard and fast in their mid-30s. Look at Marvin Harrison, Cris Carter, and others. That isn't a swipe at Moss, but just the harsh fact of WRs in their mid-30s.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
  29. emoney_33

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    The circumstances will never be "right".
  30. emoney_33

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    Yea I'm stating my opinion, congratulations for picking up on that. I can give the same possibilities and hypotheticals for Brady.

    Actually it is quite the opposite. All signs point to Moss not wanting to play elsewhere. All signs point to everyone on the Patriots feeling he is worth it. No signs point to things changing. No signs point to Moss trying to play way too long as to the detriment of a team. No signs point to Moss likely to want another big contract elsewhere. It is you who may be biased or not paying attention.

    I stated my opinion on what is likely to happen given all that we know. I don't really care that there is a possibility things will turn out differently. There is also a possibility that Brady wont' finish his career here, but you wouldn't jump on me when I say it's pretty clear IMO that he will.
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