FARINELLA: Piling on Moss too easy ... and wrong

[Rob0729]

Moss short arming a pass does not support your "he quit" hypothesis.
Moss was NOT in position to break up the INT, but he did push the interceptor out of bounds and did not "QUIT" on the play. The DB was shading outside btw.

LOL! Of course he was in position to make the play on the ball if he didn't give up/ I do give him credit for tapping Gamble as he was running out of bounds.

And yes, short arming a pass because he is worried about getting hit, is quitting. If it is the only infraction, it is quitting on the play. If it is an ongoing thing, it part of quitting in the game. Sorry, if you are more worried about turning around to see the guy coming at you than to watch the ball into your gloves, you are quitting on a play. That is what Moss did, He was looking in the other direction before the ball hits his hands causing him to short arm the ball.

 

[RL12]

He keeps this up he wont be a Pat next year. His contract is up at the end of the season and a lot of people are forgetting that. I dont think he dosent want to be a Patriot. I think he just feels like all the magic from 07 is gone and he wants a super bowl ring before he is done. By the way, WEEI is listing a boat load of top name WR who have had bad games in the last 3 weeks but because everyone hates the Pats if your not living in NE they are more focused on Moss then others.

 

[Patspsycho]

LOL! Of course he was in position to make the play on the ball if he didn't give up/ I do give him credit for tapping Gamble as he was running out of bounds.

And yes, short arming a pass because he is worried about getting hit, is quitting. If it is the only infraction, it is quitting on the play. If it is an ongoing thing, it part of quitting in the game. Sorry, if you are more worried about turning around to see the guy coming at you than to watch the ball into your gloves, you are quitting on a play. That is what Moss did, He was looking in the other direction before the ball hits his hands causing him to short arm the ball.

He didn't exactly quit, but he didn't give 100%. Will that hypothesis satisfy you?

There were plays where he put out, where he ran and blocked, and there were plays where he could have done certain things better.

 

[Rob0729]

NFL Videos: NFL Scoreboard: Panthers vs. Patriots highlights

Here is the video. At the 25 second mark you will see that Moss did not move quickly to the ball even if Brady was off the mark and Gamble's own moment took him out of bounds. In fact, Randy only tried to do was strip the ball and if Gamble didn't fall out of bounds would have had a bigger gain.

 

[emoney_33]

Well if Brady, Faulk, Bruschi, Rodney, Brown, and Welker say so. Bruschi and Rodney are two of the biggest Patriots bashers in the media. Brady has a long history of calling out individual teammates and throwing them under the bus.

I think you misread my post...

Cris Carter who has been the biggest Randy supporter in the media for the longest time called Moss' performance disgraceful because he gave up. Granted Carter doesn't blame Moss for it, he blames Belichick for sending him home on Wednesday.

So because Carter thinks Moss gave up, then it is so? So Cris Carter cannot be questioned? Yet Tom Brady, Kevin Faulk and Bill Belichick can be questioned? Come on.

I don't get why admitting Randy quit in one game (well two, but as I said most of the team quit in the other game) is such a horrible thing to admit. I mean you can't even accept he quit in the past even when Moss himself admitted to quitting on the Raiders. It was a horrible thing for the game itself, but if he changes his attitude it isn't horrible for going forward.

He did not quit, there is nothing to "admit". You continue to attempt to force your longstanding opinion on Moss' character into the current situation. I also don't care what happened in the black hole, hell Brady would be a different person playing over there lol.

You continue to use circumstantial at best evidence like a comment from Cris Carter, while ignore the direct facts in front of your face like the following:

He uncharacteristically put his shoulder into a defender on the fumble play. He shoulder'd a defender after the incomplete over his head rather than shying away from the contact. He tried to slap the ball out of the interceptor's hand while pushing him out of bounds. He continued to block all game. He continued to run routes all game drawing 2 defenders away from Watson and Welker. His presence and route on the Watson TD allowed Watson to get open since the outside DB in the area he ran initially stepped back towards Moss.

NONE of these things support your assertion that he "quit". But because he's Randy Moss you have a media-driven stigma to hold on to.

 

[Rob0729]

He didn't exactly quit, but he didn't give 100%. Will that hypothesis satisfy you?

There were plays where he put out, where he ran and blocked, and there were plays where he could have done certain things better.

That seems to more diplomatic way of looking at it than a realistic. Moss tried, just not that hard. He did try at times. He just quit at other times.

It isn't like I have looked to pile on this guy all year or anything. I just call it like I see it and he did mail it in a lot of the game. Just because you can point to individual plays where he tried doesn't mean he didn't quit on other plays.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Alllllllrighty then.

Film guru sees nothing amiss with Moss - AFC East Blog - ESPN



BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet Blog Archive Edge NFL Matchup exec weighs in: “I thought this game was no different for Randy Moss than any other game.”

Dear god in heaven, talk about a tortured rationale... Now Moss is shut down in zone with a safety over the top too. And if a ball he drops wobbled before he caught and dropped it it's not a drop. And if he quits on a route because he didn't think things were going his way it's Brady's fault for not quitting too... He missed the false start which was obviously Brady's fault, too.

I hope he got this to Bill before the Monday morning film session and saved him adding insult to injury by having to come up with a rationale that would play well to an audience of one with sensitivity issues.

The sad part is I agree this game was no different for Randy Moss than too many other games this season, as well as an unfortunate few in past seasons or post seasons to boot.

Even amongst Randy's defenders, save the most ardent and biased in their own right, there was no denying the lack of effort on Sunday. Harrison didn't deny it. Neither did Brady or Faulk. Just something they attempted to rationalize as a guy who got down on himself because of things others said to or about him. They keep pointing to what he's done in the past to avoid directly dealing with what he did on Sunday. Fine. But as AD would say, this ain't kindergarden and we all know why they are doing this. In fact most of us agree there isn't much else they can do given the circumstances...because their entire season is hanging in the balance. And not just because of Randy, but because absent his best effort this team isn't talented enough or experienced enough to even run with the elite.

 

[Rob0729]

I think you misread my post...



So because Carter thinks Moss gave up, then it is so? So Cris Carter cannot be questioned? Yet Tom Brady, Kevin Faulk and Bill Belichick can be questioned? Come on.



He did not quit, there is nothing to "admit". You continue to attempt to force your longstanding opinion on Moss' character into the current situation. I also don't care what happened in the black hole, hell Brady would be a different person playing over there lol.

You continue to use circumstantial at best evidence like a comment from Cris Carter, while ignore the direct facts in front of your face like the following:

He uncharacteristically put his shoulder into a defender on the fumble play. He shoulder'd a defender after the incomplete over his head rather than shying away from the contact. He tried to slap the ball out of the interceptor's hand while pushing him out of bounds. He continued to block all game. He continued to run routes all game drawing 2 defenders away from Watson and Welker. His presence and route on the Watson TD allowed Watson to get open since the outside DB in the area he ran initially stepped back towards Moss.

NONE of these things support your assertion that he "quit". But because he's Randy Moss you have a media-driven stigma to hold on to.

And you have a Randy Moss fan bias to hold onto. God forbid someone pick on your Randy. Randy is awesome and he is a Patriot, so the media are full of crap and created a stigma. Now if Randy was a Jets player right now, the media would be on the money. Sorry, if you are going to question my biases and ability to form my own opinion, I certainly can do the same.

The media barring exPatriots players have overwhelmingly saying Moss quit. Not all of them are mindless lemmings who just say things because of reputations and media creations.

Again, Moss has had some really bad games before and I have never accused him of quitting while in a Pats' uniform other than this game and another game where most of the team quit. I'm sorry, but if short arming the ball because you are more concerned about the defender coming at you than watching the ball into your hands, not trying to scramble to break up a pass that you can see is goping directly to a defender whether you have a realistic chance or not, and not protecting the ball when you catch it are clear indications of quiting whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[emoney_33]

LOL! Of course he was in position to make the play on the ball if he didn't give up/ I do give him credit for tapping Gamble as he was running out of bounds.

And yes, short arming a pass because he is worried about getting hit, is quitting. If it is the only infraction, it is quitting on the play. If it is an ongoing thing, it part of quitting in the game. Sorry, if you are more worried about turning around to see the guy coming at you than to watch the ball into your gloves, you are quitting on a play. That is what Moss did, He was looking in the other direction before the ball hits his hands causing him to short arm the ball.

You can call short arming, or looking up field early, on a play quitting if you want. But don't act like things like that are extremely rare in the NFL and it's just a staple of Moss "quitting". You need to accept the fact that Moss never was and never will be a physical receiver. He always has and always will shy away from contact. He catches a TD and immediately slides away from defender on goes right to the ground. Kind of like Marvin Harrison, and guess what? It helps extend their careers and keep them injury free.

NFL Videos: NFL Scoreboard: Panthers vs. Patriots highlights

Here is the video. At the 25 second mark you will see that Moss did not move quickly to the ball even if Brady was off the mark and Gamble's own moment took him out of bounds. In fact, Randy only tried to do was strip the ball and if Gamble didn't fall out of bounds would have had a bigger gain.

How you can take that camera angle and that play and say Moss quit on the game is ridiculous. He swiped for the ball and pushed him out of bounds. There are various reasons aside from quitting in which he could have cut the way he did and not break hard for the sideline.

 

[emoney_33]

Even amongst Randy's defenders, save the most ardent and biased in their own right, there was no denying the lack of effort on Sunday. Harrison didn't deny it. Neither did Brady or Faulk. Just something they attempted to rationalize as a guy who got down on himself because of things others said to or about him. They keep pointing to what he's done in the past to avoid directly dealing with what he did on Sunday. Fine. But as AD would say, this ain't kindergarden and we all know why they are doing this. In fact most of us agree there isn't much else they can do given the circumstances...because their entire season is hanging in the balance. And not just because of Randy, but because absent his best effort this team isn't talented enough or experienced enough to even run with the elite.

Manipulate their words to fit your hypothesis. Brady FLAT OUT said regarding Moss that "he fights through it". That's a flat out denial that he quit.

The fact that you claim that he hasn't tried in "too many other games" this season, yet his numbers dispute that fact, proves your bias towards Moss when it comes to effort.

 

[Rob0729]

You can call short arming, or looking up field early, on a play quitting if you want. But don't act like things like that are extremely rare in the NFL and it's just a staple of Moss "quitting". You need to accept the fact that Moss never was and never will be a physical receiver. He always has and always will shy away from contact. He catches a TD and immediately slides away from defender on goes right to the ground. Kind of like Marvin Harrison, and guess what? It helps extend their careers and keep them injury free.

It isn't rare. And I call it quitting on a play every time it happens. If that was my only complaint about Moss on Sunday, I would have blamed him for the individual play and moved on. Probably wouldn't have mentioned it once this week although I would have called him out in the game thread. Many other receivers would have made an effort to break up the pass. He was out of position to catch it, but if he hussled and reached out a bit he could have gotten a finger or a hand on the ball.

How you can take that camera angle and that play and say Moss quit on the game is ridiculous. He swiped for the ball and pushed him out of bounds. There are various reasons aside from quitting in which he could have cut the way he did and not break hard for the sideline.

Even if he pushed him out of bounds, it wasn't much of a push because I didn't even see it. Could have broke up the pass if he hussled, but pushed a guy going out of bounds out of bounds. Again, he had a very good shot at breaking up the pass if he hussled, but he didn't. He doesn't get brownie points for pushing a defender out out bounds when he probably would have gone on his own.

 

[upstater1]

As I said in the other post, whether the INT was on Brady or Moss in terms of whether Brady was off target or Moss was out of position, Moss' lack of effort to break up the pass is on him. He had an opportunity to at least break up the pass and chose to give up on the route.

It looked to me like there was no way Moss had a chance to come back outside after turning inside after correctly reading that Gamble had help and was going outside. No way. That was on Brady.

Again, I didn't defend Moss on the tipped ball or the fumble. Those are on him. As soon as Brady threw that ball I knew it was trouble.

 

[emoney_33]

And you have a Randy Moss fan bias to hold onto. God forbid someone pick on your Randy. Randy is awesome and he is a Patriot, so the media are full of crap and created a stigma. Now if Randy was a Jets player right now, the media would be on the money. Sorry, if you are going to question my biases and ability to form my own opinion, I certainly can do the same.

Don't act like you know me in the slightest. I rarely comment on Jets players, and wouldn't have a damn word to say about Moss if he were on the Jets. Why? Because I don't follow the Jets closely and don't give a damn to follow their players. I have no Moss fan bias, I'm defending the unfair assault on the guy's character, which stems from a longstanding media bias against him. You can claim you are your own person all you want, but there are players on your own team that have short armed passes, failed to block, made mental errors etc... and you have never once called out another player for "quitting".

The media barring exPatriots players have overwhelmingly saying Moss quit. Not all of them are mindless lemmings who just say things because of reputations and media creations.

You conveniently ignore anyone who says he didn't including a guy who watched the film closely and repetitively. Instead you hang on the words of idiots like Peter King. Congratulations, you are now finding out that by and large the media does NOT know more than anyone else. They are generally clueless and their end goal is RATINGS not FACTS.

Again, Moss has had some really bad games before and I have never accused him of quitting while in a Pats' uniform other than this game and another game where most of the team quit. I'm sorry, but if short arming the ball because you are more concerned about the defender coming at you than watching the ball into your hands, not trying to scramble to break up a pass that you can see is goping directly to a defender whether you have a realistic chance or not, and not protecting the ball when you catch it are clear indications of quiting whether you want to admit it or not.

This was his worst game as a Patriot, he hasn't really had too many bad games as a Patriot. He has a bad game and you pile on and accuse him of quitting.

You continue to ignore facts and spew nonsense. I have already disproven 2 out of your 3 points above.

The INT play he did scramble to break up, his momentum was gone because he didn't break hard for the sideline. After the throw he picked up to try to swat the ball but it was too late. It is FAR more likely he read outside coverage rather than just quitting on his route.

The Fumble play, he secured the ball, and put his shoulder down into a defender. He usually goes down before, and doing MORE than he normally does is the opposite sign of QUITTING. But you have no bias right?

 

[emoney_33]

Even if he pushed him out of bounds, it wasn't much of a push because I didn't even see it. Could have broke up the pass if he hussled, but pushed a guy going out of bounds out of bounds. Again, he had a very good shot at breaking up the pass if he hussled, but he didn't. He doesn't get brownie points for pushing a defender out out bounds when he probably would have gone on his own.

So he should have drawn a late hit penalty to satisfy your need to SEE the push?

 

[dhamz]

I'm sorry, but if short arming the ball because you are more concerned about the defender coming at you than watching the ball into your hands, not trying to scramble to break up a pass that you can see is goping directly to a defender whether you have a realistic chance or not, and not protecting the ball when you catch it are clear indications of quiting whether you want to admit it or not.

WRs short arming balls is a pretty common happenning in the NFL. You see it every week. There was a time not too long ago when we bragged about how our DBs were the one's causing it.

I'm not sure it is a sign of quitting - a lack of toughness certainly but that is hardly a new thing at the WR position. If it is a sign of quitting then there are plenty of pass catchers quitting around the league each week.

 

[Rob0729]

Don't act like you know me in the slightest. I rarely comment on Jets players, and wouldn't have a damn word to say about Moss if he were on the Jets. Why? Because I don't follow the Jets closely and don't give a damn to follow their players. I have no Moss fan bias, I'm defending the unfair assault on the guy's character, which stems from a longstanding media bias against him. You can claim you are your own person all you want, but there are players on your own team that have short armed passes, failed to block, made mental errors etc... and you have never once called out another player for "quitting".

LOL! You are way too funny. You know exactly how I think because you know me inside and out, but I don't know you in the slightest. With logic like that, you support my arguement that you are just biased. Sorry, you cannot make baseless assumptions about me without me throwing right back at you.

The media may or may not be unfair to Moss, but it has no bearing on how I think. I am intelligent enough to form my own thoughts and opinions and have watched a ton of Vikings games while he was there. I have seen the guy quit with my own two eyes. I usually disagree with the media on a lot of their crap. So I am not influenced by them.



You conveniently ignore anyone who says he didn't including a guy who watched the film closely and repetitively. Instead you hang on the words of idiots like Peter King. Congratulations, you are now finding out that by and large the media does NOT know more than anyone else. They are generally clueless and their end goal is RATINGS not FACTS.

This was his worst game as a Patriot, he hasn't really had too many bad games as a Patriot. He has a bad game and you pile on and accuse him of quitting.

You continue to ignore facts and spew nonsense. I have already disproven 2 out of your 3 points above.

The INT play he did scramble to break up, his momentum was gone because he didn't break hard for the sideline. After the throw he picked up to try to swat the ball but it was too late. It is FAR more likely he read outside coverage rather than just quitting on his route.

The Fumble play, he secured the ball, and put his shoulder down into a defender. He usually goes down before, and doing MORE than he normally does is the opposite sign of QUITTING. But you have no bias right?

LOL! Yes, you disproved 2 of the 3 of my points because page one of the Randy Moss ball washer's manual says don't accept anything as quitting.

 

[Rob0729]

It looked to me like there was no way Moss had a chance to come back outside after turning inside after correctly reading that Gamble had help and was going outside. No way. That was on Brady.

Again, I didn't defend Moss on the tipped ball or the fumble. Those are on him. As soon as Brady threw that ball I knew it was trouble.

He had a chance. We can argue how great of a chance. He had no chance though when he didn't even try to make a break on the ball when Brady release it and it was clear it was heading towards Gamble and not him. By the time it actually hit Gamble, I agree he had no chance.

 

[Rob0729]

WRs short arming balls is a pretty common happenning in the NFL. You see it every week. There was a time not too long ago when we bragged about how our DBs were the one's causing it.

I'm not sure it is a sign of quitting - a lack of toughness certainly but that is hardly a new thing at the WR position. If it is a sign of quitting then there are plenty of pass catchers quitting around the league each week.

It is quitting on the play. As an isolated event, it is not quitting all together. But that wasn't the only play in my mind.

When you are more concerned about getting hit than catching the ball and you don't go through your progressions to catch and secure the ball, it is the classic definition of quitting on a play. Many players quit on plays. QBs fall to the ground and take a sack when they have an opportunity to get rid of the ball and throw out of bounds. RBs rather than hitting the hole they are supposed to bounce outside for a loss because they are afraid of getting smacked for a short gain because they are going to get hard. WRs run out of bounds when they catch the ball rather than taking the hit and get an extra yard or two even if that yard or two is the difference between punting or converting downs.

None of those are quitting for a game, but it is quitting on an individual play.

 

[emoney_33]

He had a chance. We can argue how great of a chance. He had no chance though when he didn't even try to make a break on the ball when Brady release it and it was clear it was heading towards Gamble and not him. By the time it actually hit Gamble, I agree he had no chance.

This is a horrendous recreation of events.

 

[emoney_33]

LOL! You are way too funny. You know exactly how I think because you know me inside and out, but I don't know you in the slightest. With logic like that, you support my arguement that you are just biased. Sorry, you cannot make baseless assumptions about me without me throwing right back at you.

The media may or may not be unfair to Moss, but it has no bearing on how I think. I am intelligent enough to form my own thoughts and opinions and have watched a ton of Vikings games while he was there. I have seen the guy quit with my own two eyes. I usually disagree with the media on a lot of their crap. So I am not influenced by them.

Forget the media bias, you have a bias against Randy Moss. I don't care WHERE it comes from, but you are biased against him. When have you called out another Patriot for quitting? NEVER. And you cannot sit there and say that no other Patriots have short armed a pass, made mental errors, looked as if they misplayed something, looked as if they could have broken up a pass to your eyes on TV.