Bill Barnwell article on how we got here

[PP2]

I like the article but disagree with his point on keeping Bill. Barnwell seemed to go over two dozen reasons why Bill has failed at the rebuild but then inexplicably thinks he should come back with some changes in place.

Yes BB failed at the rebuild, and his scouting/GM'ing skills are average to terrible which warrants him losing these privileges. But does that warrant discharging BB, the HC? I'm not aware of his coaching acumen slipping; have you seen anything of that sort?

Of course, if BB refuses to yield decision-making on the draft, and GM'ing, then he would have to be discharged.

 

[jimnance]

I have been referring to this to the point that I have gotten the horse beat out of me. (get it?) To much emphasis on Bill getting Bill Type Guys and not enough emphasis on getting best athletes available.

What's ironic is if you go back to the early dynasty years, I remember an interview with BB saying in the draft you always draft best player available regardless of position as opposed to reaching for a guy who fills a need.
Which was how I've always viewed the draft.
I like the old Bill better.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I like the article but disagree with his point on keeping Bill. Barnwell seemed to go over two dozen reasons why Bill has failed at the rebuild but then inexplicably thinks he should come back with some changes in place.

A predictable conclusion from an ESPN writer.

 

[Steve102]

What's ironic is if you go back to the early dynasty years, I remember an interview with BB saying in the draft you always draft best player available regardless of position as opposed to reaching for a guy who fills a need.
Which was how I've always viewed the draft.
I like the old Bill better.

Yeah, me too. I think at some point, he got to be the get off my lawn guy and didn't want to deal with certain type of guys, kinda like the Jones situation. He always launched guys that were locker room lawyers or guys that cried about money, so that's not new, but it really feels like he passes on guys that he just doesn't want to be around.

 

[jimnance]

Yes BB failed at the rebuild, and his scouting/GM'ing skills are average to terrible which warrants him losing these privileges. But does that warrant discharging BB, the HC? I'm not aware of his coaching acumen slipping; have you seen anything of that sort?

Of course, if BB refuses to yield decision-making on the draft, and GM'ing, then he would have to be discharged.

The only failure as a HC, as opposed to his GM position, was the insane hiring of Fat Matt and Judge as OC last year. That's a responsibility that usually falls on a HC, not a GM.
And as bad decisions go, that was epic.
But as far as teaching, coaching positions,, x'es and o's etc. I see no drop-off. He did the best with what his GM gave him to work with

 

[Steve102]

@jimnance This version of Bill would not have drafted Gronk or the other TE idiot in the same draft.

 

[FCB02062]

Yes BB failed at the rebuild, and his scouting/GM'ing skills are average to terrible which warrants him losing these privileges. But does that warrant discharging BB, the HC? I'm not aware of his coaching acumen slipping; have you seen anything of that sort?

Of course, if BB refuses to yield decision-making on the draft, and GM'ing, then he would have to be discharged.

do you watch the games? on what planet should the coach have gone for a blocked punt vs Ind w no returner, this costing his club 17-20 yards of super valuable field position...the IBWT people really have their heads in the sand. Do I need to mention Bills record pre and post Brady? about a .450 win %. Jeff Fisher has a comparable %. Bill is 27-34 since he kicked out Brady...but yeah, let's keep him around

 

[PP2]

The only failure as a HC, as opposed to his GM position, was the insane hiring of Fat Matt and Judon as OC last year. That's a responsibility that usually falls on a HC, not a GM.
And as bad decisions go, that was epic.
But as far as teaching, coaching positions,, x'es and o's etc. I see no drop-off. He did the best with what his GM gave him to work with

Judon = Judge?

 

[203Pat]

Yes BB failed at the rebuild, and his scouting/GM'ing skills are average to terrible which warrants him losing these privileges. But does that warrant discharging BB, the HC? I'm not aware of his coaching acumen slipping; have you seen anything of that sort?

Of course, if BB refuses to yield decision-making on the draft, and GM'ing, then he would have to be discharged.

I think his coaching has slipped too. Some of his timeout usage, decisions to kick or not kick field goals in certain situations, the failed stretch run experiment, making Patrica and Judge OC and QB coaches, players seemingly not buying in/checking out (JC Jackson, Jack Jones, Isiah Wynn), endless sloppy penalties and mistakes on field. All these things signal to me he just doesn't have it anymore.

 

[jimnance]

Judon = Judge?

On no planet does Judon=Judge.
Judon is one of the very few elite players at his job.
Judge is..well, I won't judge.

 

[RIpats88]

“If another general manager had Belichick's past eight classes of drafts on his résumé, he would be out of a job”

He hasn't had a good draft in nearly a decade.

People forget why the roster in 2019 was so bad for Brady. It wasn't because they "went all in" it was because the drafts were so bad that you had no replacements for their older retiring players.

2010-2013/14 we're solid drafts which built the second dynasty. Then they started to go downhill pretty fast.

Now we started our rebuild in 2020. Who will still be here after 4 years of drafts? What building blocks has Bill gotten?

All our good players like Duggar or onwenu are free agents and likely to leave because Bill didn't want to offer them second contracts

 

[PP2]

I think his coaching has slipped too. Some of his timeout usage, decisions to kick or not kick field goals in certain situations, the failed stretch run experiment, making Patrica and Judge OC and QB coaches, players seemingly not buying in/checking out (JC Jackson, Jack Jones, Isiah Wynn), endless sloppy penalties and mistakes on field. All these things signal to me he just doesn't have it anymore.

Most of those are personnel decisions- things such as timeout usage or FG decisions are on par with the questionable decisions he's made over the years, in the past. We had quite a number of sloppy penalties, mistakes, and many players checking out in 2009 when BB lost control of the team. That was the year we had Adalius Thomas.

But the decision to bench Mac right before the last drive is something that stands out as an outlier to me. If we have more moments like those, then I will consider that his acument is not the same as before.

 

[archstanton543]

Most of those are personnel decisions- things such as timeout usage or FG decisions are on par with the questionable decisions he's made over the years, in the past. We had quite a number of sloppy penalties, mistakes, and many players checking out in 2009 when BB lost control of the team. That was the year we had Adalius Thomas.

But the decision to bench Mac right before the last drive is something that stands out as an outlier to me. If we have more moments like those, then I will consider that his acument is not the same as before.

What about not putting a punt returner back and letting the Colts get off a 70 yard punt?

 

[PP2]

What about not putting a punt returner back and letting the Colts get off a 70 yard punt?

That would be on Achord.

 

[archstanton543]

That would be on Achord.

The buck stops with Bill.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

do you watch the games? on what planet should the coach have gone for a blocked punt vs Ind w no returner, this costing his club 17-20 yards of super valuable field position...the IBWT people really have their heads in the sand. Do I need to mention Bills record pre and post Brady? about a .450 win %. Jeff Fisher has a comparable %. Bill is 27-34 since he kicked out Brady...but yeah, let's keep him around

The most baseless cliche still used in sports: that doesn’t happen to a Bill Belichick coached team.

 

[sb1]

do you watch the games? on what planet should the coach have gone for a blocked punt vs Ind w no returner, this costing his club 17-20 yards of super valuable field position...the IBWT people really have their heads in the sand. Do I need to mention Bills record pre and post Brady? about a .450 win %. Jeff Fisher has a comparable %. Bill is 27-34 since he kicked out Brady...but yeah, let's keep him around

Is IBWT still a thing? After that coaching clusterflick last season?

 

[sb1]

Most of those are personnel decisions- things such as timeout usage or FG decisions are on par with the questionable decisions he's made over the years, in the past. We had quite a number of sloppy penalties, mistakes, and many players checking out in 2009 when BB lost control of the team. That was the year we had Adalius Thomas.

But the decision to bench Mac right before the last drive is something that stands out as an outlier to me. If we have more moments like those, then I will consider that his acument is not the same as before.

The only reason I can think of is BB didn't like his demeanor after the INT and pulled the plug. No point keeping him in there if he's that shook about it. It's not like the Patriots are in playoff contention and every win matters. The season is over.

A real franchise QB wouldn't be shook of course, he'd shake it off and move on. Imagine if Brady was the type to pout and crying after he had a bad game. We wouldn't have won very much.

 

[SVN]

 

[RIpats88]

What of how Bill handled the last 4 years of the rebuild would give fans confidence on giving him a rookie prospect and allowing him to continue to build the roster offensively this way and continue to let him pick the groceries?

I don't want a rookie QB protected by V. Lowe while throwing to the likes of parker/Bourne. As Bill hires jags for the offense yet drafts special teams/defensive guys for depth and maybe reaches on a 4th rounder in the 1st or 2nd