Does anyone think Tom is underrated when compared to Peyton Manning?

[stevedogc]

Someone give this Colts fan the URL to the You Tube video where Saturday basically threatens Peyton with a beatdown. I love that one. But I don't have the link.

it seems to have been deleted from youtube. But here is another link to it:

http://ballhype.com/video/peyton_manning_goes_insane/

And here an old time favorite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1piy8Zxddw

What a classy guy!

 

[ScottieC]

it seems to have been deleted from youtube. But here is another link to it:

http://ballhype.com/video/peyton_manning_goes_insane/

And here an old time favorite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1piy8Zxddw

What a classy guy!

Right, nice work!!

Now in the spirit of fair play - Is there a Tommy video out there similar to these? I've never seen one, but I'm a Total Unapologetic Patriots Homer (TUPH) so maybe I've forgotten.

 

[the taildragger]

Look...over the years I have been one of the biggest Peyton bashers on this board with an unrelenting vengeance...Pay Me Tons, Manling,Goober from Geekville...whatever...but seriously, Peyton Manning has been a once in a generation QB in the NFL from the start...he's smart, he's tough and he's a hard worker par excellence...put him on the Patriots with our staff and support structure and he'd have torn this league to shreds over the years. The pressure he can put on the opposition on a team that plays excellent team DEFENSE would have undoubtedly led to more championships. Polian took his chances betting offense would carry the Colts. The Pats PROVED defense ultimately wins out. I still hate his guts but I respect Peyton Manning..he's earned it

Not sure if TB is "underrated" (anymore), but I've always felt Peyton is overrated.

He's a fine QB. I'd still rate him a distant second. By building Peyton up so high you're sort of asking for him to get bashed.

He's great within his system. You talk about a "support structure," and yet no QB was afforded more support than Peyton over his career....no QB would have turned down a chance to play with all those first-round picks around him.

Is Peyton really a guy who can carry a defense-oriented team with a below average supporting cast (that's putting it mildly some years)? And I just remember a few too many seasons when the Pats defense wasn't good. The best case you could make for Peyton was 2006, but he hardly tore up anything, in fact you could argue he played the worst of any QB in that postseason....while his foe in the AFC Championship was like Atlas with the cast-offs he was dealt....some "support system." He won, but did he really carry his team like great QBs do? He wasn't even a game manager, in fact, he was pretty damn close to a liability.

I'd call it a stretch to suggest Peyton would've "torn up" anything in New England. He relies way too much on his receivers beating their guys and being exactly where they're supposed to be to have had anything but frustration in New England....much less, unprecedented success ala 12.

 

[roscothunder]

Why is it when you guys compare Manning and Brady you always take Manning's superiour offense into account, but you always dismiss it when anyone points out that Brady had a much better overall team than Manning until recently?

Brady had a pretty good, maybe even great, D during his SB run. Even last year they were one of the top D's in the league. The Colts D couldn't stop crap until 2006 playoffs.

Brady is a great QB, but if you put Manning on those Pats teams and Brady on the Colts the # of rings would flip flop.

As others have pointed out Manning basically sat out two games in 2004 when he set the TD record, Brady threw what 80 or so more passes than Manning when he set the record? Just like Moss breaking Rice's record: Moss took 3 more games to do it.

And as far as Manning "throwing his teamates under the bus" during that press conference, grow up. He was repeatedly asked about the offensive line screwing up, which they did, and all he said was "we had some protection problems". Yeah, what a bad teammate. Stating the obvious. He could have just said no comment I guess but you make such a big deal out of it.

You want to talk about being a baby, how about the stuff BB did after the SB last year? I know this is a Pats board so you guys can't admit it, but that was some first class sore-loser crap right there.

Manning and Brady are both great QBs. But you have to put championships in context. You talk about Montana and Marino, and how Montana has more rings while Marino had the numbers? Like that makes Montana a better QB?

Yeah, but Marino never played on a team anywhere near as talented as Montana. One guy, even a QB, can only do so much. And championships in a team sport like football doesn't make you a better player. Trent Dilfer has more championships than Tarkenton, Marino, Moon, Esiason, Archie Manning, Randal Cunningham, and many other great NFL QB's combined, but he's certainly not better than any of those guys.

Troy Aikman has as many rings as Brady, but Brady is obviously a much better QB. Terry Bradshaw has more rings than Brady, but Brady is a better QB than Bradshaw. I know I'm pissing in the wind here because you are all Pats homers, but Brady isn't the greatest QB ever, he's in the argument, but so are a lot of other QB's.

And as far as choking in the playoffs goes, Brady has now choked 3 straight seasons. The Broncos, the AFC championship game, and of course in the SB. Remember when he scoffed at Plaxico for saying they'd only score 17 points? Plaxico overrated them a bit.

 

[stevedogc]

Why is it when you guys compare Manning and Brady you always take Manning's superiour offense into account, but you always dismiss it when anyone points out that Brady had a much better overall team than Manning until recently?

Brady had a pretty good, maybe even great, D during his SB run. Even last year they were one of the top D's in the league. The Colts D couldn't stop crap until 2006 playoffs.

Brady is a great QB, but if you put Manning on those Pats teams and Brady on the Colts the # of rings would flip flop.

As others have pointed out Manning basically sat out two games in 2004 when he set the TD record, Brady threw what 80 or so more passes than Manning when he set the record? Just like Moss breaking Rice's record: Moss took 3 more games to do it.

And as far as Manning "throwing his teamates under the bus" during that press conference, grow up. He was repeatedly asked about the offensive line screwing up, which they did, and all he said was "we had some protection problems". Yeah, what a bad teammate. Stating the obvious. He could have just said no comment I guess but you make such a big deal out of it.

You want to talk about being a baby, how about the stuff BB did after the SB last year? I know this is a Pats board so you guys can't admit it, but that was some first class sore-loser crap right there.

Manning and Brady are both great QBs. But you have to put championships in context. You talk about Montana and Marino, and how Montana has more rings while Marino had the numbers? Like that makes Montana a better QB?

Yeah, but Marino never played on a team anywhere near as talented as Montana. One guy, even a QB, can only do so much. And championships in a team sport like football doesn't make you a better player. Trent Dilfer has more championships than Tarkenton, Marino, Moon, Esiason, Archie Manning, Randal Cunningham, and many other great NFL QB's combined, but he's certainly not better than any of those guys.

Troy Aikman has as many rings as Brady, but Brady is obviously a much better QB. Terry Bradshaw has more rings than Brady, but Brady is a better QB than Bradshaw. I know I'm pissing in the wind here because you are all Pats homers, but Brady isn't the greatest QB ever, he's in the argument, but so are a lot of other QB's.

And as far as choking in the playoffs goes, Brady has now choked 3 straight seasons. The Broncos, the AFC championship game, and of course in the SB. Remember when he scoffed at Plaxico for saying they'd only score 17 points? Plaxico overrated them a bit.

There is not one shred of evidence that supports what you claim, in fact there is evidence that claims otherwise. You say that if Brady and Manning flipped teams the rings would flip flop. I highly doubt that. Manning has had plenty of good defenses throughout his career. He has a a defense that was ranked 7th, 2nd and 1st in the league in defense for the season. Any guesses to the Colts combined playoff record for those three years? 0-3! Not one win. And in those three loses the offense average 14 points per game!

And when talking about putting championships into context, why not look at the Colts loses in the playoffs. Mannings combined stats in a playoff loss are: 155 of 281 for 1725 yards 6 tds 9 ints rating: 67.4 Seems to me if Manning played better in the playoffs, then maybe the Colts would have more rings. And when you look at the years in which both QB won titles, Mannings td-int ratio is 3-7, Bradys 11-2!

 

[Deus Irae]

And as far as choking in the playoffs goes, Brady has now choked 3 straight seasons. The Broncos, the AFC championship game, and of course in the SB. Remember when he scoffed at Plaxico for saying they'd only score 17 points? Plaxico overrated them a bit.

Saying that Brady choked in the loss to the Colts is just ignorant. Then again, so was most of your post, so it fit right in.

 

[Steve Zabel]

I think the biggest difference between the two is that Peyton has been throwing to a HOF receiver his whole career.

To be fair, Manning has thrown to Harrison since 1998. His other receives before Wayne really emerged in 2003 were, Terence Wilkins, Jerome Pathon, Bobby Olive, Quadry Ismail, Torrance Small and Trevor Insley. Not one of them is better than Caldwell, Gaffney, Troy Brown, David Givens or Branch. and you can truly make a case it's Manning who has made Harrison and Wayne into Hall of Famers. Before Manning got to Indy, Harrison's numbers were fair. Avg. @ 65 catches 7 TD's. 800 yards.

 

[stevedogc]

To be fair, Manning has thrown to Harrison since 1998. His other receives before Wayne really emerged in 2003 were, Terence Wilkins, Jerome Pathon, Bobby Olive, Quadry Ismail, Torrance Small and Trevor Insley. Not one of them is better than Caldwell, Gaffney, Troy Brown, David Givens or Branch. and you can truly make a case it's Manning who has made Harrison and Wayne into Hall of Famers. Before Manning got to Indy, Harrison's numbers were fair. Avg. @ 65 catches 7 TD's. 800 yards.

If you look at Marvin Harrisons stats for the first two years he was in the league, they compare to some of the best WR's to ever play the game. Generally, WR's do not put great numbers early in their career. So to say his numbers were average is being very short sighted. Not to mention he put up those numbers with Jim Harbaugh throwing him the ball. He was a mid first round pick, so the talent was there.

And if you look at Mannings number prior to Wayne's, as you claim, break out season, his career QB rating is 85.9. Bradys career QB rating prior to this season, without Moss/Welker/Stallworth is 88.4. Manning has had a HOF fame receiver his entire career. Not to mention a much better running game/threat then Brady with Faulk/James/Addai. Brady has had only a HOF receiver for 1 season.

 

[alvinnf]

All the stats and numbers in the world may be availlable to make people feel better about their binkies, for me the only thing I care about is that TB is under center when we snap the ball. Period...... Everything else is just fodder.

 

[ScottieC]

Why is it when you guys compare Manning and Brady you always take Manning's superiour offense into account, but you always dismiss it when anyone points out that Brady had a much better overall team than Manning until recently?

Brady had a pretty good, maybe even great, D during his SB run. Even last year they were one of the top D's in the league. The Colts D couldn't stop crap until 2006 playoffs.

Brady is a great QB, but if you put Manning on those Pats teams and Brady on the Colts the # of rings would flip flop.

As others have pointed out Manning basically sat out two games in 2004 when he set the TD record, Brady threw what 80 or so more passes than Manning when he set the record? Just like Moss breaking Rice's record: Moss took 3 more games to do it.

And as far as Manning "throwing his teamates under the bus" during that press conference, grow up. He was repeatedly asked about the offensive line screwing up, which they did, and all he said was "we had some protection problems". Yeah, what a bad teammate. Stating the obvious. He could have just said no comment I guess but you make such a big deal out of it.

You want to talk about being a baby, how about the stuff BB did after the SB last year? I know this is a Pats board so you guys can't admit it, but that was some first class sore-loser crap right there.

Manning and Brady are both great QBs. But you have to put championships in context. You talk about Montana and Marino, and how Montana has more rings while Marino had the numbers? Like that makes Montana a better QB?

Yeah, but Marino never played on a team anywhere near as talented as Montana. One guy, even a QB, can only do so much. And championships in a team sport like football doesn't make you a better player. Trent Dilfer has more championships than Tarkenton, Marino, Moon, Esiason, Archie Manning, Randal Cunningham, and many other great NFL QB's combined, but he's certainly not better than any of those guys.

Troy Aikman has as many rings as Brady, but Brady is obviously a much better QB. Terry Bradshaw has more rings than Brady, but Brady is a better QB than Bradshaw. I know I'm pissing in the wind here because you are all Pats homers, but Brady isn't the greatest QB ever, he's in the argument, but so are a lot of other QB's.

And as far as choking in the playoffs goes, Brady has now choked 3 straight seasons. The Broncos, the AFC championship game, and of course in the SB. Remember when he scoffed at Plaxico for saying they'd only score 17 points? Plaxico overrated them a bit.

Wow, That's really delusional.

 

[ScottieC]

To be fair, Manning has thrown to Harrison since 1998. His other receives before Wayne really emerged in 2003 were, Terence Wilkins, Jerome Pathon, Bobby Olive, Quadry Ismail, Torrance Small and Trevor Insley. Not one of them is better than Caldwell, Gaffney, Troy Brown, David Givens or Branch. and you can truly make a case it's Manning who has made Harrison and Wayne into Hall of Famers. Before Manning got to Indy, Harrison's numbers were fair. Avg. @ 65 catches 7 TD's. 800 yards.

I'm not sure what your point is, are you arguing the chicken and egg scenario here with who made who better? That's does not work.

Would Peyton be Peyton with out Marvin or would Marvin be Marvin without Peyton. That's all revisionist history and as stated it just don't work.

Fact is that they have been together and whether you want to believe it or not they are one of if not the greatest QB/WR tandems of all time (as backed up by the NFLN) - So please, open Wikipedia check Marvin's stats and rethink your argument.

 

[ScottieC]

Why is it when you guys compare Manning and Brady you always take Manning's superiour offense into account, but you always dismiss it when anyone points out that Brady had a much better overall team than Manning until recently?

Are you familiar with the 2004 Indy offense?

 

[roscothunder]

Are you familiar with the 2004 Indy offense?

Yeah, I'm also familiar with the 2004 Indy defense, are you?

It was one of the worst in the league. I'm not talking about the offensive side, I'm talking about the Colts as a team. The Pats were a much better team than the Colts until recently.

The only thing you guys can show Brady having any edge on Manning is in playoff wins, but Brady had a much better team to help him get those wins.

The Pats defense was just as much responsible for those SB's as Brady was. It was the Pats D that beat the Colts.

 

[ScottieC]

Yeah, I'm also familiar with the 2004 Indy defense, are you?

It was one of the worst in the league. I'm not talking about the offensive side, I'm talking about the Colts as a team. The Pats were a much better team than the Colts until recently.

The only thing you guys can show Brady having any edge on Manning is in playoff wins, but Brady had a much better team to help him get those wins.

The Pats defense was just as much responsible for those SB's as Brady was. It was the Pats D that beat the Colts.

"Until recently." When did that happen? Did I miss a game?

You're right, That 2004 defense was horrible - However when you talk about those teams a few years ago, how do you Colts fans explain away Peyton's affinity for passing to Ty Law, Rodney Harrison and Teddy Bruschi?

I guess the question is this: Has Peyton ever LOST you a game?

 

[ScottieC]

"The only thing you guys can show Brady having any edge on Manning is in playoff wins"

Please check: 2007 New England Patriots Regular Season.

I believe that you can find it on Wikipedia.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

To be fair, Manning has thrown to Harrison since 1998. His other receives before Wayne really emerged in 2003 were, Terence Wilkins, Jerome Pathon, Bobby Olive, Quadry Ismail, Torrance Small and Trevor Insley. Not one of them is better than Caldwell, Gaffney, Troy Brown, David Givens or Branch. and you can truly make a case it's Manning who has made Harrison and Wayne into Hall of Famers. Before Manning got to Indy, Harrison's numbers were fair. Avg. @ 65 catches 7 TD's. 800 yards.

The only WR who arrived in NE as a ready-made star was Randy Moss. The rest weren't household names when they were signed, and only became such after Brady. And fwiw, tell us how well Deion and co have done since leaving NE.
If Manning making Harrison better means Manning's a better QB, then Brady making some of our WR's better makes Brady a better QB too.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Yeah, I'm also familiar with the 2004 Indy defense, are you?

It was one of the worst in the league. I'm not talking about the offensive side, I'm talking about the Colts as a team. The Pats were a much better team than the Colts until recently.

The only thing you guys can show Brady having any edge on Manning is in playoff wins, but Brady had a much better team to help him get those wins.

The Pats defense was just as much responsible for those SB's as Brady was. It was the Pats D that beat the Colts.

Manning always got so rattled too Good times. Of course I'll never forget that snowy playoff game in Foxboro, when Manning was ready to unleash his secret play. But the play was blown, not by our D, but by Manning himself.

 

[ManningOverratedHick]

Peyton Manning is Jessica Simpson: Blonde with big boobs and sex appeal, but no personality. Tom Brady is Elaine from Seinfeld or Roz from Frasier: not going to turn most guy’s heads on looks alone, but physically attractive and a great personality. Even those attracted to Jessica Simpson would only be dating her as a trophy girlfriend and for sex, and as soon as they were watching a football game with her and she asked “what’s so fair about a fair catch?” both of those perks would get old quickly, just like even the biggest Manning ballwasher flinches when he throws the ball to the wrong team in the playoffs. Meanwhile, Elaine or Roz continue to get dates and Jessica sits at home and wonders “Why do guys like them better than me?” Similar to Manning having more natural talent and athletic ability than Brady, but not having the quality, the intangible “it” that Brady has and Manning will never have. Then Elaine or Roz goes out and gets a new outfit (or Randy Moss) and while their boobs still aren’t big as Jessica’s, they have equal amount of sex appeal and beat Jessica at her own game anyway.

 

[JSn]

Peyton Manning is Jessica Simpson: Blonde with big boobs and sex appeal, but no personality. Tom Brady is Elaine from Seinfeld or Roz from Frasier: not going to turn most guy’s heads on looks alone, but physically attractive and a great personality. Even those attracted to Jessica Simpson would only be dating her as a trophy girlfriend and for sex, and as soon as they were watching a football game with her and she asked “what’s so fair about a fair catch?” both of those perks would get old quickly, just like even the biggest Manning ballwasher flinches when he throws the ball to the wrong team in the playoffs. Meanwhile, Elaine or Roz continue to get dates and Jessica sits at home and wonders “Why do guys like them better than me?” Similar to Manning having more natural talent and athletic ability than Brady, but not having the quality, the intangible “it” that Brady has and Manning will never have. Then Elaine or Roz goes out and gets a new outfit (or Randy Moss) and while their boobs still aren’t big as Jessica’s, they have equal amount of sex appeal and beat Jessica at her own game anyway.

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect, lol.

I had to laugh "what's so fair about a fair catch?". That's classic.

 

[PatsFanJess]

Peyton Manning is Jessica Simpson: Blonde with big boobs and sex appeal, but no personality. Tom Brady is Elaine from Seinfeld or Roz from Frasier: not going to turn most guy’s heads on looks alone, but physically attractive and a great personality. Even those attracted to Jessica Simpson would only be dating her as a trophy girlfriend and for sex, and as soon as they were watching a football game with her and she asked “what’s so fair about a fair catch?” both of those perks would get old quickly, just like even the biggest Manning ballwasher flinches when he throws the ball to the wrong team in the playoffs. Meanwhile, Elaine or Roz continue to get dates and Jessica sits at home and wonders “Why do guys like them better than me?” Similar to Manning having more natural talent and athletic ability than Brady, but not having the quality, the intangible “it” that Brady has and Manning will never have. Then Elaine or Roz goes out and gets a new outfit (or Randy Moss) and while their boobs still aren’t big as Jessica’s, they have equal amount of sex appeal and beat Jessica at her own game anyway.

LOL. Interesting. What the hell are you talking about?