Derrick Burgess is a Friggin Stiff

[UofApatsfan]

i think you know what i mean. i'm not talking about future HOFers. we just keep taking al's leftovers from oakland like warren, sands and burgess. they are not helping at all.

I can't disagree here but it makes sense in a way. Oakland is just screwed up in so many ways. There are talented players who look like crap on that team because of how they do things and the way they misuse players.

IMO, Burgess should only be used at ROLB. LOLB simply has too much run defending duties for him to handle and Burgess has never been a good run defender. Even during his prime stretch from 2005-2007, the Raiders were atrocious against the run but Burgess was a good pass rusher at RDE. When they started moving him around and making him play LDE is when he became irrelevant. If New England returned him to solely being ROLB who's job was to rush the QB, there's a good chance he'd return to being an elite pass rusher.

 

[Rob0729]

No, he wasn't, and I wish the myth that he was would die. He had sacks against Carolina, Buffalo and Houston, and people began acting as if he was playing well. He was still sucking. He'd simply gone from full power suckage to medium suckage.

I'm not getting into this again with you since you have argued in the past how Burgess is some how part of the trade for Seymour. It is obviously a sore subject for you.

I stated my peace and I am done. Feel free to have the last word on the subject.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not getting into this again with you since you have argued in the past how Burgess is some how part of the trade for Seymour. It is obviously a sore subject for you.

I stated my peace and I am done. Feel free to have the last word on the subject.

Rob, Seymour has nothing to do with how bad Burgess stunk last year.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Back to the original topic: aside from the fact that there were a lot of other players on defense that did not play well tonight, why would you want to cut Burgess? What's the alternative? I've never understood the rationale of "let's fire/cut/trade this guy" when there is no better choice being offered.

If we want the Pats to have a successful season, we need Burgess to be part of the team and be productive. Would you prefer we just designate 2010 a throwaway season and watch inexperienced players get on the job training in an extended audition for 2011?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Back to the original topic: aside from the fact that there were a lot of other players on defense that did not play well tonight, why would you want to cut Burgess? What's the alternative? I've never understood the rationale of "let's fire/cut/trade this guy" when there is no better choice being offered.

If we want the Pats to have a successful season, we need Burgess to be part of the team and be productive. Would you prefer we just designate 2010 a throwaway season and watch inexperienced players get on the job training in an extended audition for 2011?

Thats a good point, Im sure if there were better players and we had unlimited capital we could have a super team but we have who we have and it is what it is. No matter how much a guy may suck on any given sunday we have to hope they get it and turn their play around eventually.

 

[D-cleater]

I was watching Burress and while he didn't suck as most of our CB's, I think he sucked the most out of the front 7, IMO. TBC made mistakes, for sure. But Burress just looks like he's playing patty cake out there with the TE. No contain, no pash rush, and no plays being made. I doubt he's being asked to drop back.

One play on the Rams first drive comes to mind. Rams TE #47, (who owned Burgess on just about every play), engages Burgess, adjusts his face mask with one hand, and then continues to pass protect. Hysterical. Pathetic.

 

[DaBruinz]

Why are you singling out Burgess. Mike Wright, Devin McCourty, Brandon Spikes, Gerrad Warren, and several other starters played just as bad or worse then Burgess has. At least Burgess has the excuse that he is only his second week of practicing.

Sorry, but Spikes played a very good game. I agree with you about McCourty and Warren.

That being said, Burgess was just horrid..

 

[Christopher Patriot]

Let's give Burgess one more game with extended playing time before we crucify the guy for a game where it looked like the defense never stepped on the field.
I agree he looked bad I'd like to see more Ninkovich, Murrelll, and for the love of god Cunningham. We still have Mankins for trade bait let's hope that nets us a edge rusher our 2nd tier running back.

 

[Bostonian1962]

And his keister should be cut tomorrow. Send him packing.

Ciao. Sayonara. Adios. Arrivedere. Bye.

Enough said.

That sad thing is with as bad as he looks, they've got little else to generate a pass rush. Did you all see the time and room the Rams' QBs had to throw last night? It was deja vu to last year.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I'm blown away that with all of BB's talk after last season that 'we've got to address the lack of pass rush', that he did so little to address the pass rush. Yes, even a rookie QB can look good given all that time to throw.

 

[stinkypete]

Sorry, but Spikes played a very good game. I agree with you about McCourty and Warren.

That being said, Burgess was just horrid..

Agreed. Spikes had a very good game, marred by one high-profile bad play. He's a rookie. It happens.

Burgess really looks like a lost cause. I didn't have much reason to believe that he was an upgrade over Ninkovich or Woods last year, and I don't see how keeping him in the game over Cunningham or Murrell is going to do this any good this year.

And spare me the "Burgess is our 4-3 DE" argument. It doesn't compute with me. That is a sub-package that the defense uses 30% of the time, and both TBC and Cunningham can man the edge in those situations.

 

[bucky]

Here's the problem with Burgess playing OLB: he never drops into coverage and opposing QBs know it. So both the Falcons and Rams took advantage by running off the CBs and throwing to the flat on Burgess' side. I assume BB will account for that in the regular season, but IMO there is still a major question as to whether Burgess can play OLB or is just a 3rd down pass rusher like he was last season.

 

[mgteich]

The team is trying Burgess at OLB in the base defense. He has never done this well. IMHO, Burgess will be back to sub packages, playing on only 57% or so of the defensive reps as he did last year. Of course, that was more than any OLB but Banta-Cain.

The open question is whether Cunningham will improve OLB production when he plays.

 

[lillestroom]

Here's the problem with Burgess playing OLB: he never drops into coverage and opposing QBs know it. So both the Falcons and Rams took advantage by running off the CBs and throwing to the flat on Burgess' side. I assume BB will account for that in the regular season, but IMO there is still a major question as to whether Burgess can play OLB or is just a 3rd down pass rusher like he was last season.

Or a 3rd down pass rusher who simply cant be bothered to report for the first two and a half weeks of camp.

I'd sling him out just for that.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Or a 3rd down pass rusher who simply cant be bothered to report for the first two and a half weeks of camp.

I'd sling him out just for that

I dont think he blew it off because he was a lazy ass, BB wouldnt of even let him back if that was the case. I thought he was contemplating retirement because of some family problem and he thought he should be home full time, never got any more info on that but that was the rumour floating around.

 

[Ring 6]

Here's the problem with Burgess playing OLB: he never drops into coverage and opposing QBs know it. So both the Falcons and Rams took advantage by running off the CBs and throwing to the flat on Burgess' side. I assume BB will account for that in the regular season, but IMO there is still a major question as to whether Burgess can play OLB or is just a 3rd down pass rusher like he was last season.

There is no question at all, he is not going to be on the field as a 34 OLB.

 

[mgteich]

The situation is really as simple as you say.

Burgess should be judged as a 4-3 2-gap DE, the position that he will play for us. It is Banta-Cain and Burgess who will be our 4-3 DE's. Maybe there will be some contribution from Cunningham when he is healthy.

This is the same as what we had last year. I expect that we will be better against the pass this year with the addition of McCourty.

There is no question at all, he is not going to be on the field as a 34 OLB.

 

[Ring 6]

The situation is really as simple as you say.

Burgess should be judged as a 4-3 2-gap DE, the position that he will play for us. It is Banta-Cain and Burgess who will be our 4-3 DE's. Maybe there will be some contribution from Cunningham when he is healthy.

This is the same as what we had last year. I expect that we will be better against the pass this year with the addition of McCourty.

Not really even 4-3 but nickel and dime. In the 43 we are more likely to use a guy like Wright as one of the DEs than 2 LBs, which we use in nickel and dime.

 

[Kontradiction]

Needless to say, Cunningham getting healthy, producing, and knocking Burgess out of the starting line-up in 3-4 packages would be a HUGE plus for us.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Burgess was a signing out of desperation last year when Taylor decided to rejoin the Dolphins and Burgess is once again a desperate signing with a team that has virtually no good pass rushers.

Burgess is here and will be a starting OLB because we are desperate at the position with even less talent behind him...enuff said

Lack of depth and talent will always give mediocre players a chance when in reality they should retire.

 

[mgteich]

Why should a JAG retire when he is better than lots of players at his position and can beat out players for a roster spot?

If Burgess plays pass-rusher in the sub package better than Ninkovich, he will and SHOULD make our team. Burgess played in 57% of the defensive reps last year, and should play in fewer this year, if Cunningham or Ninkovich taking some of his reps.

Burgess is a veteran, role-playing JAG. There has always been room for such players on winning patriot teams.

Posters here seem to think that all our players should be pro-bowlers or potential pro-bowlers. That is NOT possible in a well-managed nfl team. There is plently of room for veteran players, past their prime, who sign contracts one year at a time, and can contribute some when called upon. In most situations, these players are inexpensive insurance (for example, Ojinnaka and Ghiaciuc). Sometimes such players are the weakest player with significant playing time, as Burgess was for us last year and is likely to be this year.

Personally, I would rather depend on Burgess in the sub package rather than Ninkovich.

Burgess was a signing out of desperation last year when Taylor decided to rejoin the Dolphins and Burgess is once again a desperate signing with a team that has virtually no good pass rushers.

Burgess is here and will be a starting OLB because we are desperate at the position with even less talent behind him...enuff said

Lack of depth and talent will always give mediocre players a chance when in reality they should retire.