Derrick Burgess is a Friggin Stiff

[QB12]

To my eyes, Ninkovich has been a more disruptive pass rusher than Burgess has. Whether that's because it's only been in spot duty is a fair question but I have more confidence right now that Ninko will get to the quarterback than I do Burgess.

 

[Ring 6]

Burgess was a signing out of desperation last year when Taylor decided to rejoin the Dolphins and Burgess is once again a desperate signing with a team that has virtually no good pass rushers.

Burgess is here and will be a starting OLB because we are desperate at the position with even less talent behind him...enuff said

Lack of depth and talent will always give mediocre players a chance when in reality they should retire.

He is not going to be playing the OLB in the base portion of the OLB job.
The OLB job does have 2 parts to it though, with the other part being playing DE in the sub package. That is the only part Burgess will play, outside of a handful of snaps here or there or an emergency.
Since we play nickel/dime half the time, whether you consider that the starting OLB or not is debatable.

 

[D-cleater]

He is not going to be playing the OLB in the base portion of the OLB job.
The OLB job does have 2 parts to it though, with the other part being playing DE in the sub package. That is the only part Burgess will play, outside of a handful of snaps here or there or an emergency.
Since we play nickel/dime half the time, whether you consider that the starting OLB or not is debatable.

Not sure if you watched the game last Thursday, but was the starting ROLB in the base 3-4. It appears as though he was signed to play exactly the role you say he is not going to be playing.

Nickel/Dime describes formation of the secondary, not the front 3 or 4.

The sub package you speak of, as I recall, was the least effective of any that the Pats played last year. I pray they scrap it. But when/if it is used, you will see two 3-4 OLB's , like TBC and Burgess, play the DE spot as mgteich alludes to, not Mike Wright.

 

[Run DMC]

Just to put this in perspective, our arch enemies of our dynasty decade, the Colts, have Mathis and Freeny as their edge rushers. We have Tully and Burgess. I think that says it all.

 

[mgteich]

I would think that our comparative records say it all.

Have the colts been a better team? a better managed team? the team with the better defense?

No, you haven't said it all.

Just to put this in perspective, our arch enemies of our dynasty decade, the Colts, have Mathis and Freeny as their edge rushers. We have Tully and Burgess. I think that says it all.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I can't disagree here but it makes sense in a way. Oakland is just screwed up in so many ways. There are talented players who look like crap on that team because of how they do things and the way they misuse players.

IMO, Burgess should only be used at ROLB. LOLB simply has too much run defending duties for him to handle and Burgess has never been a good run defender. Even during his prime stretch from 2005-2007, the Raiders were atrocious against the run but Burgess was a good pass rusher at RDE. When they started moving him around and making him play LDE is when he became irrelevant. If New England returned him to solely being ROLB who's job was to rush the QB, there's a good chance he'd return to being an elite pass rusher.

Gee whiz. I thought you might know what you are talking about, but I see that is NOT the case. The reason that DB plays LOLB is that he INSISTS that he play on the strong side. He insists he is much more effective from that side. He has ALWAYS played on that side and the years he got 11 and 16 sacks, and made the Probowls, he did it on the strong side, well.

So I know that you would have a great reason to move him to the weakside. RIIIIGHT!? Pray tell, what is it?

 

[Run DMC]

I would think that our comparative records say it all.

Have the colts been a better team? a better managed team? the team with the better defense?

No, you haven't said it all.

That was then and this is now. The Colts are the #1 team in the AFC. And yes Polian has done a much better job of drafting talent than we have. Sorry, if the truth hurts. And for the record, I rabidly dislike the Colts.

 

[mgteich]

I presume that your time perspective for velauting the clots and patriots is 2008-2010.

That was then and this is now. The Colts are the #1 team in the AFC. And yes Polian has done a much better job of drafting talent than we have. Sorry, if the truth hurts. And for the record, I rabidly dislike the Colts.

 

[Run DMC]

I presume that your time perspective for evaluating the clots and patriots is 2008-2010.

Yep. Obviously, we smoked those fools in the 8 years preceding the end of our dynasty in the game that shall not be mentioned at the conclusion of the 2007 season. I'm talking now. We match up on offense with them, but our D is far inferior to theirs presently. I hope that changes after our 2011 draft and some more seasoning for our youngsters.

 

[Kontradiction]

To my eyes, Ninkovich has been a more disruptive pass rusher than Burgess has. Whether that's because it's only been in spot duty is a fair question but I have more confidence right now that Ninko will get to the quarterback than I do Burgess.

They're both JAG type players. To say that one is better than the other isn't exactly a compliment.

 

[italia44]

Gee whiz. I thought you might know what you are talking about, but I see that is NOT the case. The reason that DB plays LOLB is that he INSISTS that he play on the strong side. He insists he is much more effective from that side. He has ALWAYS played on that side and the years he got 11 and 16 sacks, and made the Probowls, he did it on the strong side, well.

So I know that you would have a great reason to move him to the weakside. RIIIIGHT!? Pray tell, what is it?

Gee whiz....a hissy fit between AZ pats fans.

Let me straighten YOU out,skippy.Derrick Burgess doesn't play the STRONG side or the WEAK side.

The STRONG side is the side where the TE lines up....got it?.....On pass plays the TE is more often;than not, lined up on the offensive LEFT side
Why?.....Because this is the QB's BACKSIDE and also the ROLB is usually the better pass rusher than the LOLB.

BURGESS prefers the LEFT side,not because it's STRONG,but because he played LDE in a 4-3 defense....not a 3-4.in which he plays a LOLB.
The LEFT side is what he's used to....that's all.

GOT It?....End of lecture(CAPITALS were used,as it seems to be your only form of communication.):bricks::bricks::bricks:

 

[mgteich]

Our offense was a bit better than Indy last year, and Brady is back healthy, so we can expect our offense to remain as good as theirs.

In what areas of defense to you think the might colts were and are better than the patriots? We seem to lead them or are very close in almost all stats. Surely the advantage of their defense isn't that that our defense failed in our playoff game last year.
Do you believe that the colts are BETTER than last year? Do you think that the patriots are worse? Has the sun been getting to you?

2009 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Yep. Obviously, we smoked those fools in the 8 years preceding the end of our dynasty in the game that shall not be mentioned at the conclusion of the 2007 season. I'm talking now. We match up on offense with them, but our D is far inferior to theirs presently. I hope that changes after our 2011 draft and some more seasoning for our youngsters.

 

[Ring 6]

Not sure if you watched the game last Thursday, but was the starting ROLB in the base 3-4. It appears as though he was signed to play exactly the role you say he is not going to be playing.

Nickel/Dime describes formation of the secondary, not the front 3 or 4.

The sub package you speak of, as I recall, was the least effective of any that the Pats played last year. I pray they scrap it. But when/if it is used, you will see two 3-4 OLB's , like TBC and Burgess, play the DE spot as mgteich alludes to, not Mike Wright.

It was a preseason game. That is his position, if he ever plays in the base, which he didnt last year and rarely will this year. He played it in the preseaosn game to get reps on the field.

Nickel/dime is the defense, not just the secondary.
When the Partriots play nickle or dime, they use 34 DEs at DT and 34 OLBs at DE, always have.
Not sure what you mean about scrapping a defense with extra dbs, we actually use it more than ever.

When we play real 34, we make one of the OLBs a DE, one of the DEs a DT.
We are not going to play a 43 wth 2 260lb DEs for any significant amount of snaps.

 

[Run DMC]

Our offense was a bit better than Indy last year, and Brady is back healthy, so we can expect our offense to remain as good as theirs.

In what areas of defense to you think the might colts were and are better than the patriots? We seem to lead them or are very close in almost all stats. Surely the advantage of their defense isn't that that our defense failed in our playoff game last year.
Do you believe that the colts are BETTER than last year? Do you think that the patriots are worse? Has the sun been getting to you?

2009 NFL Opposition & Defensive Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. What that link doesn't show is the cupcake schedule we had last year. Also, no mention of out inability to close other teams down on 3rd down, which if I recall correctly, was a major issue last year against good teams. And, if you watched the Rams PS game, looks like it is going to be a problem once again. If you recall last year,we had major problems against quality opponents and I see that happening again with our JAG pass rush and the passing of the guard to these youngsters.
Also, when is the last time you can recall anyone(since 2008) on this D forcing a game changing turnover in crunch time?

 

[AzPatsFan]

Gee whiz....a hissy fit between AZ pats fans.

Let me straighten YOU out,skippy.Derrick Burgess doesn't play the STRONG side or the WEAK side.

The STRONG side is the side where the TE lines up....got it?.....On pass plays the TE is more often;than not, lined up on the offensive LEFT side
Why?.....Because this is the QB's BACKSIDE and also the ROLB is usually the better pass rusher than the LOLB.

BURGESS prefers the LEFT side,not because it's STRONG,but because he played LDE in a 4-3 defense....not a 3-4.in which he plays a LOLB.
The LEFT side is what he's used to....that's all.

GOT It?....End of lecture(CAPITALS were used,as it seems to be your only form of communication.):bricks::bricks::bricks:

You are correct. It is the left side that he plays, as a LDE and/or LOLB. Conventionally, that left side is typically the "strong side", as the TE usually line up there. But technically the "strong side" is where the TE lines up, when a single TE is on the field, and lines up on the line. The point is that Derrick does not switch to the right side if the TE moves to the right side, or now the "strong side".

Similarly TBC has almost always but not quite exclusively a right side OLB or by convention a "weak side" OLB.

 

[AzPatsFan]

He is not going to be playing the OLB in the base portion of the OLB job.
The OLB job does have 2 parts to it though, with the other part being playing DE in the sub package. That is the only part Burgess will play, outside of a handful of snaps here or there or an emergency.
Since we play nickel/dime half the time, whether you consider that the starting OLB or not is debatable.

That was true last season; it is a lot less true this pre-season. Derrick has indeed been taking stand up OLB snaps in pre-season, whereas he did not last year.

 

[AzPatsFan]

That was then and this is now. The Colts are the #1 team in the AFC. And yes Polian has done a much better job of drafting talent than we have. Sorry, if the truth hurts. And for the record, I rabidly dislike the Colts.

Only because they were lucky enough to play in a very weak division for a very long time, AFCS division. Now that Houston, an expansion frachise is finally competitive, and the Titans have settled on a QB, their reign as even AFCS division champion is being questioned.

 

[Run DMC]

Only because they were lucky enough to play in a very weak division for a very long time, AFCS division. Now that Houston, an expansion frachise is finally competitive, and the Titans have settled on a QB, their reign as even AFCS division champion is being questioned.

I hope you're right!

 

[AzPatsFan]

They're both JAG type players. To say that one is better than the other isn't exactly a compliment.

No they are not comparative, and Derick Burgess is not just-a-guy. DB had 5 sacks last season, his firsrt playin gin a 3-4 D; Ninkovitch recorded a single sack assist. DB was a two time Probowl player and is 31, not quite an antique. He might no longer be a probowler but he is still far from a JAG. Ninko fits the definition of a ner-was, ner-will-be, or just-a-guy, aka JAG.

 

[italia44]

You are correct. It is the left side that he plays, as a LDE and/or LOLB. Conventionally, that left side is typically the "strong side", as the TE usually line up there. But technically the "strong side" is where the TE lines up, when a single TE is on the field, and lines up on the line. The point is that Derrick does not switch to the right side if the TE moves to the right side, or now the "strong side".

Similarly TBC has almost always but not quite exclusively a right side OLB or by convention a "weak side" OLB.

Now.....why couldn't you have replied to UofApats fan,like this? Intellect+Reason+Compassion=Credibility,my friend......p.s.I don't have the stats in my head for all teams,but the Patriots are a "left-handed" team and line-up the TE on the left offensive side about 70% of the time.