Defense wins championships

[upstater1]

I must be the only Hightower fan on these boards. The guy has been asked to do everything in several positions his first couple years in the league. When he settles into his position, he does well. He can become one of the top 3 MLBs in football. He has that much talent.

 

[Sciz]

I must be the only Hightower fan on these boards. The guy has been asked to do everything in several positions his first couple years in the league. When he settles into his position, he does well. He can become one of the top 3 MLBs in football. He has that much talent.

One could argue that he was the best defender on the field for the Patriots starting in week 13 or so. I'm not worried about Hightower at all next season. He'll be fine.

 

[Marqui]

One could argue that he was the best defender on the field for the Patriots starting in week 13 or so. I'm not worried about Hightower at all next season. He'll be fine.

Agreed, but I wish he would drop at least 10 lbs though. Does he really need to be 270? Kind of a waste of his athleticism if you ask me.

 

[Deus Irae]

Semantics. You were calling my posts lousy and you know it.

But moving on, I engaged with Mayo but you failed to engage with me. I'll happily debate anything with anyone so long as they put up a counter argument. You haven't.

It's not semantics. It's pointing out that you weren't posting like your normal self. You've been everything you were accusing me of in this thread. No need to go further in this thread, and you said you'd look elsewhere, so feel free to stop with the spurned woman routine of calling me out in your responses to Mayo.

 

[manxman2601]

I must be the only Hightower fan on these boards. The guy has been asked to do everything in several positions his first couple years in the league. When he settles into his position, he does well. He can become one of the top 3 MLBs in football. He has that much talent.

Far from it. I'm a fan too.

 

[Tunescribe]

Sorry to disappoint you if I don't actually feel bad.

You're probably so used to feeling bad about the Bills you've become numb to it and don't know the difference. But I sure do enjoy watching the Pats eat their lunch twice a year. It's my favorite annual road trip.

 

[Uncle Meat]

You're probably so used to feeling bad about the Bills you've become numb to it and don't know the difference. But I sure do enjoy watching the Pats eat their lunch twice a year. It's my favorite annual road trip.

The Bills do usually do get their lunch eaten. Sometimes I think that they forgot to pack their lunch at all.

But other times the Bills eat their own lunch, only they choke on it.

Once in a while, they'll eat somebody else's lunch.

The Patriots are lucky to be in this division, where it's a veritable free all-you-can-eat buffet or smorgasbord.

 

[mayoclinic]

I must be the only Hightower fan on these boards. The guy has been asked to do everything in several positions his first couple years in the league. When he settles into his position, he does well. He can become one of the top 3 MLBs in football. He has that much talent.

I would have preferred a more mobile LB, and I didn't think he was worth the #25 overall pick, but I think Hightower can be a very good player. I think he's an upgrade from Spikes at MLB, and he could also be effective getting some snaps at DE. Not so sure about top 3 - I don't see him being as good as Navorro Bowman, Luke Kuechly, Patrick Willis, Sean Lee, or probably Bobby Wagner or Kiko Alonso, all of whom are better in space. I don't think he's a special talent, but I think he can be solid. I hope he proves me wrong and you right.

 

[Uncle Meat]

Richard Sherman was saying that they deciphered Peyton Manning's signals and audibles, so they knew what plays were coming.

It sure seemed that way.

 

[Kontradiction]

Richard Sherman was saying that they deciphered Peyton Manning's signals and audibles, so they knew what plays were coming.

It sure seemed that way.

It's actually very possible that they figured him out. The Seahawks didn't do anything exotic on defense. They made absolutely no effort to disguise what they were doing. They just lined up and laid the lumber to the Broncos on offense.

 

[ivanvamp]

Even though Seattle was called for 10 penalties in the game, they weren't flagged for illegal contact or defensive holding at all. Two clear DPI penalties, but there should have been a third as well.

My point is that even though the refs were willing to throw flags in general, they allowed Seattle's DBs to play Denver's WRs very physically. Played right into Seattle's hands.

 

[Kontradiction]

Even though Seattle was called for 10 penalties in the game, they weren't flagged for illegal contact or defensive holding at all. Two clear DPI penalties, but there should have been a third as well.

My point is that even though the refs were willing to throw flags in general, they allowed Seattle's DBs to play Denver's WRs very physically. Played right into Seattle's hands.

That's not really different from the postseason in general, though. The refs were very loose with their whistles on DB's throughout the entire playoffs.

 

[ivanvamp]

That's not really different from the postseason in general, though. The refs were very loose with their whistles on DB's throughout the entire playoffs.

Ok. I didn't pay close enough attention to that to know for sure, but I'll believe you. Either way, it sure helped Seattle because they really want to get after receivers like that.

 

[captain stone]

...Remember too, BB didn't just draft Hightower, he traded up for him, and his comments after the 2012 draft suggested that the Pats had Hightower and Jones ranked equally. That suggests that they had a clear rationale / plan for wanting him so badly, in spite of which, they don't seem at all clear about where he fits or what to do with him. That's part of what I consider a "lack of clarity"...

This is the crux of one of my problems with Bill. By drafting a strictly 4-3 DE in Chandler Jones,
his direction for his defense should've been clear. But then he goes and drafts a 3-4 ILB in Donte
Hightower when he already had very recently expended 1st- & 2nd-round capital in Mayo/Spikes.
If that isn't inconsistent, then I don't know what is.

BTW, I give Bill no grief at all for bypassing Dunlap in 2010; he didn't fit the defense played at
that moment, and he was a knucklehead who could've just as easily busted as succeeded.
My problem has always been drafting the underwhelming Jerry Cunnyham at 53rd overall when
Nobody in the Entire Universe had rated him a 53rd overall talent, or anywhere close.
Absolutely awful.

 

[mayoclinic]

This is the crux of one of my problems with Bill. By drafting a strictly 4-3 DE in Chandler Jones,
his direction for his defense should've been clear. But then he goes and drafts a 3-4 ILB in Donte
Hightower when he already had very recently expended 1st- & 2nd-round capital in Mayo/Spikes.
If that isn't inconsistent, then I don't know what is.

BTW, I give Bill no grief at all for bypassing Dunlap in 2010; he didn't fit the defense played at
that moment, and he was a knucklehead who could've just as easily busted as succeeded.
My problem has always been drafting the underwhelming Jerry Cunnyham at 53rd overall when
Nobody in the Entire Universe had rated him a 53rd overall talent, or anywhere close.
Absolutely awful.

That's true in hindsight. But Cunningham had a solid rookie year as a 3-4 OLB, and many on this board were optimistic about his future going into 2011. But he didn't pan out at all as a 4-3 DE.

I can understand that BB was still trying to figure out what way to go in 2010 and passed up guys like Dunlap and Hardy - perfect 4-3 DE candidates - in favor of a projected OLB like Cunningham. BB "reached" for Vollmer in the 2nd round in 2009, and that worked out ok, so if BB thought Cunningham was a good fit at 3-4 OLB in 2010 I'm ok with it. But a year later he was running a 4-3 under in training camp and clearly moving towards more of a 4 man front with a hybrid scheme, and he needed to find players that fit that scheme. I'm still not sure where Hightower fits.

 

[PatsFan2]

Funny, the last time we won a SB we actually had a Defense which seems like many moons ago now.

 

[PatsFan2]

This is the crux of one of my problems with Bill. By drafting a strictly 4-3 DE in Chandler Jones,
his direction for his defense should've been clear. But then he goes and drafts a 3-4 ILB in Donte
Hightower when he already had very recently expended 1st- & 2nd-round capital in Mayo/Spikes.
If that isn't inconsistent, then I don't know what is.

BTW, I give Bill no grief at all for bypassing Dunlap in 2010; he didn't fit the defense played at
that moment, and he was a knucklehead who could've just as easily busted as succeeded.
My problem has always been drafting the underwhelming Jerry Cunnyham at 53rd overall when
Nobody in the Entire Universe had rated him a 53rd overall talent, or anywhere close.
Absolutely awful.

Add a Tavon Wilson to the list of Awful Second picks by BB and we wonder why this Defense still sucks! They didn't even lay a finger on Manning embarassing.:snob: I thought Chandler Jones turned the conrner but he didn't remind me of anybody on that Seattle DL.

 

[mgteich]

Cunnningham was a good 3-4 prospect and was progressing well. He would still be on the team is he weren't injured last year.

The patriots no longer have a pure 4-3 or 3-4, or even a pure 2-gap. We run all kinds of sets. IMHO, the problem is that we don't have enough quality players to play all the sets well.

I'm told that all that we can hope for is quality starters as if it only the seven starters that we depend on.

The greatness of the SB defense was both the quality of players and the ability to disguise sets and run them well. I think that much of this is lost.

Our 2005-2013 teams have been on the edge of greatness, often one play away. For those who measure only Super Bowls, the team is a failure and it would have been a huge success if two plays had gone differently or Gronkowski been more healthy. For others, we have been one of the very best teams in the NFL for the 2005-2013.

This is the crux of one of my problems with Bill. By drafting a strictly 4-3 DE in Chandler Jones,
his direction for his defense should've been clear. But then he goes and drafts a 3-4 ILB in Donte
Hightower when he already had very recently expended 1st- & 2nd-round capital in Mayo/Spikes.
If that isn't inconsistent, then I don't know what is.

BTW, I give Bill no grief at all for bypassing Dunlap in 2010; he didn't fit the defense played at
that moment, and he was a knucklehead who could've just as easily busted as succeeded.
My problem has always been drafting the underwhelming Jerry Cunnyham at 53rd overall when
Nobody in the Entire Universe had rated him a 53rd overall talent, or anywhere close.
Absolutely awful.

 

[JackBauer]

Add a Tavon Wilson to the list of Awful Second picks by BB and we wonder why this Defense still sucks! They didn't even lay a finger on Manning embarassing.:snob: I thought Chandler Jones turned the conrner but he didn't remind me of anybody on that Seattle DL.

How many of Seattle's defensive ends played over 1,000 snaps during the year?

Not to diminish Seattle's defense at all because they're certainly awesome, but it seems to be they had pretty good fortune on the injury front. Kind of the polar opposite of our experience this year.

 

[mayoclinic]

How many of Seattle's defensive ends played over 1,000 snaps during the year?

Not to diminish Seattle's defense at all because they're certainly awesome, but it seems to be they had pretty good fortune on the injury front. Kind of the polar opposite of our experience this year.

True, but that was partly by design. They had more than 2 defensive ends that they could count on.

The Pats need Buchanan to step up, and they need to dump Carter and Bequette and get some bodies who can actually produce is a rotation with Jones and Ninkovich.