Defense wins championships

[DW Toys]

Bill Belichick can start rebuilding the defensive line by drafting two defensive tackles. First round draft selections need not apply:

Brandon Mebane - 3rd Round
Red Bryant - 4th Round

Cousins, The almighty Draft again? Exactly one player from both Superbowl Teams was a 2013 Draft choice that started. One in 44, not including special teamers.

I Like the Draft but it is not going to help our HOF QB.

The 2014 Draft is valuable for the year 2017. Remember..... three year shelf life to ignite Draft picks to their full potential about 90% of the time. 17% actually make an impact during that period. The rest jags or done.

Do we need to worry about what we have for TB in the year 2017....Thoughts? I see perhaps a small up tick in our kid WR core in 2014. I am hoping for more in 2015. Collins should be better and the two kids at DT but game changers? Any? I don't know. There are three Defensive positions that are core. Is there the talent with those kids? Can they dominate? Who knows?

Here is an interesting stat to all the build through the Draft disciples (which I agree, just not for now while we have a QB with an expiration date). It's a fair statement to say that the Seahawks D line won the game for them. Look at this for who they are and how they got there:Seahawks brought in four D Linemen as free agents (Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, Tony McDaniel, Benson Mayowa) and traded for three more (Chris Clemons, Clinton McDonald, O’Brien Schofield).

The Draft is a crap shoot. FA and Trades you have tape and information, but the cost structure is more. I think we all agree BB is better at trades and FA picks ups than his Drafting over the years. I think since A. Thomas (one good year) and Colvin (injuries) he is gun shy at upper tier guys. The Seahawks F.O., not so much. We can build a Seahawk like relentless defense if we concentrate on the "D" perhaps more so than the O because we are scoring points with anyone with less talent there. You have some nice pieces already. Think this; Jones on one side and Jared Allen on the other? Maybe a Melton or a Michael Bennett to go with Vince and the kids. Orakpo would be a massive addition.

Maybe you grab one or two tweaks to the O like a Dietrich-Smith at C (Love Mack but Cleveland won't let him go) who could be had for Connelly money and a serviceable TE (I like Owen Daniels who will be a CAP drop over high dollar Findley et,al) and a typical good luck grab that BB does one or twice like maybe a Blackmon at WR or a Bolden and the O is set.

How about a trade of Ridley for S Antrel Role? I think BB like Blount's game more. Trade serves both Teams. An immediate upgrade in the back of our D. I mentioned that player many times. BB is not afraid of 31 year old players.

Both those Teams in the SB relied heavily on trades and FA pick ups. The Draft is for Depth. One or two work out well.

DW Toys

 

[JackBauer]

True, but that was partly by design. They had more than 2 defensive ends that they could count on.

The Pats need Buchanan to step up, and they need to dump Carter and Bequette and get some bodies who can actually produce is a rotation with Jones and Ninkovich.

I agree completely. My only point is that (to my eyes, anyway) Jones seemed to wear down toward the end of the season for the reason you expressed - inadequate depth. I was disappointed that they didn't make a more aggressive attempt at Michael Bennett.

 

[mayoclinic]

I agree completely. My only point is that (to my eyes, anyway) Jones seemed to wear down toward the end of the season for the reason you expressed - inadequate depth. I was disappointed that they didn't make a more aggressive attempt at Michael Bennett.

You and me both.

My first priority at DL last season was a DT who could pressure. I thought Desmond Bryant would be a good fit, but Cleveland gave him an enormous contract. My second option was Bennett, who I thought could be used much as Seattle has used him this year. I was less than thrilled when he signed for a reasonably low 1 year contract with Seattle.

I've been saying for months that the need for rotational depth at the DE position is every much as big a priority as the need at DT. Jones and Ninkovich played the most snap counts of any DEs in the NFL last year, and that's not acceptable.

 

[TonyTucker]

You and me both.

My first priority at DL last season was a DT who could pressure. I thought Desmond Bryant would be a good fit, but Cleveland gave him an enormous contract. My second option was Bennett, who I thought could be used much as Seattle has used him this year. I was less than thrilled when he signed for a reasonably low 1 year contract with Seattle.

I've been saying for months that the need for rotational depth at the DE position is every much as big a priority as the need at DT. Jones and Ninkovich played the most snap counts of any DEs in the NFL last year, and that's not acceptable.

Yep, they need defensive tackles AND defensive ends. What did Jones play, 99 percent of the snaps?

 

[mayoclinic]

Yep, they need defensive tackles AND defensive ends. What did Jones play, 99 percent of the snaps?

98.1%. Ninkovich played 95.6%.

Seattle had Red Bryant, Brandon Mebane, Chris Clemons and Bruce Irvin, and they went out and got Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett and Tony McDaniel in FA. I understand that they had the benefit of a QB and two of their top defenders all on rookie contracts, but they were aggressive in building depth all across their DL.

 

[Deus Irae]

98.1%. Ninkovich played 95.6%.

Seattle had Red Bryant, Brandon Mebane, Chris Clemons and Bruce Irvin, and they went out and got Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett and Tony McDaniel in FA. I understand that they had the benefit of a QB and two of their top defenders all on rookie contracts, but they were aggressive in building depth all across their DL.

Defensive ends cost money and, as a general rule, BB doesn't like to spend that money on one FA. He'd rather spend it on 5.

 

[mayoclinic]

Defensive ends cost money and, as a general rule, BB doesn't like to spend that money on one FA. He'd rather spend it on 5.

Seattle spent it on 3. They got Avril and Bennett for less than their expected market rate (2 years / $15M for Avril, 1 year / $5M for Bennett), and McDaniels was a cheap pick up (1 year / $890K). Not chump change, but none of them massive break-the-bank kind of deals. Obviously, it helped their cap situation that Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman and Russell Wilson were all on rookie deals.

I've been advocating getting additional DE depth through the draft given the high price of many FAs. Regardless, Carter/Buchanan/Bequette won't cut it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Seattle spent it on 3. They got Avril and Bennett for less than their expected market rate (2 years / $15M for Avril, 1 year / $5M for Bennett), and McDaniels was a cheap pick up (1 year / $890K). Not chump change, but none of them massive break-the-bank kind of deals. Obviously, it helped their cap situation that Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman and Russell Wilson were all on rookie deals.

I've been advocating getting additional DE depth through the draft given the high price of many FAs. Regardless, Carter/Buchanan/Bequette won't cut it.

Seattle spent $7.5m on Avril alone, if you split the contract. BB's big ticket defender was Tommy Kelly, at about $2.5m. I would love to see BB stop with the A. Wilson signings. Since he can't seem to draft a safety, I'm all for him signing Byrd or Ward. I just don't know that we're going to see it.

 

[Ring 6]

Avrils contract was 2/13 with 3.75 hit this year and 9.25 next year.

 

[Ring 6]

Seattle spent $7.5m on Avril alone, if you split the contract. BB's big ticket defender was Tommy Kelly, at about $2.5m. I would love to see BB stop with the A. Wilson signings. Since he can't seem to draft a safety, I'm all for him signing Byrd or Ward. I just don't know that we're going to see it.

BB spent more of this years cap on Aqib Talib than Seattle spent on Avril.
BB spent zero on Adrian Wilson.
BB spent 3mill in this years cap # on Vollmer.
Can we just stop the analysis that the guys signed for nothing that didn't make the team are the way to judge free agency?

 

[mayoclinic]

Seattle spent $7.5m on Avril alone, if you split the contract. BB's big ticket defender was Tommy Kelly, at about $2.5m. I would love to see BB stop with the A. Wilson signings. Since he can't seem to draft a safety, I'm all for him signing Byrd or Ward. I just don't know that we're going to see it.

I hated the Wilson signing, and thought it was a total waste of money. IIRC, it was widely applauded on this board.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...-you-re-sorely-needed-here.html#.UvFMApGwNvY
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...14907-adrian-wilson-signed.html#.UvFMaZGwNvY

Then again, people badly wanted Ed Reed.

The Pats had a chance to get Dashon Goldson in 2011, just before BB ended up scrapping the entire secondary. He ended up re-signing with SF for chump change (around $2.5M, I believe) that year. Despite his flaws, that's the kind of player the Pats needed opposite McCourty - someone with some nasty attitude who lays the lumber but who isn't a complete liability in coverage. Calvin Pryor or Deone Bucannon fit that bill fairly nicely.

 

[Deus Irae]

I hated the Wilson signing, and thought it was a total waste of money. IIRC, it was widely applauded on this board.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...-you-re-sorely-needed-here.html#.UvFMApGwNvY
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...14907-adrian-wilson-signed.html#.UvFMaZGwNvY

Then again, people badly wanted Ed Reed.

The Pats had a chance to get Dashon Goldson in 2011, just before BB ended up scrapping the entire secondary. He ended up re-signing with SF for chump change (around $2.5M, I believe) that year. Despite his flaws, that's the kind of player the Pats needed opposite McCourty - someone with some nasty attitude who lays the lumber but who isn't a complete liability in coverage. Calvin Pryor or Deone Bucannon fit that bill fairly nicely.

If there's a silver lining to come out of Seattle winning the SB, it might just be that people here have finally come around about the safety play. Seeing Chancellor and Thomas owning the middle of that field reminded me of 2003-2004.

 

[Joker]

If there's a silver lining to come out of Seattle winning the SB, it might just be that people here have finally come around about the safety play. Seeing Chancellor and Thomas owning the middle of that field reminded me of 2003-2004.

the only person of importance as far as "coming around" is Belechick. If he continues to think swivel hipped 5'10", 190 pound DB's are the way to go, we will continue to see clutch and grab, read react, soft zone secondary play.

I saw one play that absolutely enraged me in the Denver game...after Talib went off, another corner moved in to take his spot and lined up across from Demaryius Thomas...the ball was snapped, Thomas broke the line and ran a sideline route. Our corner let him break to the sideline and sat down in a zone 5-7 yards of the LOS covering an area of five yards on either side of himself. NO ONE WAS NEAR HIM. Essentially he was covering NOBODY. Thomas made the catch on the sideline inbounds and ran off a good chunk for a 1st down.

THIS was the proper coverage technique in our secondary, according to post game reports. To me that is a "punch me in the face, stomp on me and kick my azz all the way down the field" defensive strategy. Yeah, I'm sick of the Punch and Judy smurf corners but until there is some fundamental shift up top in this organization, we will draft 3 or 4 more of these dodge-em car corners and we will continue to see this read and react defense.

 

[Deus Irae]

the only person of importance as far as "coming around" is Belechick. If he continues to think swivel hipped 5'10", 190 pound DB's are the way to go, we will continue to see clutch and grab, read react, soft zone secondary play...

In the meta, I fully agree with you. My point was really just about this board. I'm talking safeties on another thread, and pointing to exactly your point, which is that it's about BB acknowledging his struggles with the position.

I was just talking about the board because it can get tedious around here when the Insane Homer Posse gets rolling about something.

 

[captain stone]

Funny, the last time we won a SB we actually had a Defense which seems like many moons ago now.

108 moons ago, to be exact.

 

[mayoclinic]

Nice breakdown from Bucky Brooks of the all-22 film looking at Seattle's tactics against Denver in the SB:

Seattle Seahawks walloped Denver Broncos with simple scheme - NFL.com

A couple of excerpts:

Heading into Super Bowl XLVIII, Seattle defenders boldly told observers that they would stick with their simplistic approach. At the time, I couldn't envision a defense using a conventional game plan to shut down Manning. The veteran quarterback is one of the few signal-callers in the game given complete freedom to check and adjust plays at the line of scrimmage based on his exquisite pre-snap reads; I thought a static coverage would allow him to routinely get the Broncos into ideal play calls and exploit favorable matchups. Most importantly, I thought a straightforward approach would leave the Seahawks' D vulnerable to big plays in the passing game after Manning got a feel for his opponent in the first few possessions.

To their credit, the Seahawks' coaches understood that a simple game plan would reduce the clutter in their players' minds, allowing them to play faster and without hesitation. Consequently, Seattle could spend more time focusing on the Broncos' formational tendencies by down and distance rather than worrying about various checks and adjustments out of multiple coverages. This approach minimized the risk of mental breakdowns, which typically result in big plays surrendered by the defense. It also gave Seahawks defenders a chance to master the Broncos' favorite concepts and anticipate those plays in the pre-snap phase.

From a coverage standpoint, Seattle used a handful of play calls that were ripped out of a high school playbook. The Seahawks played a basic man-to-man defense with a deep-middle safety and a robber lurking in the middle. Additionally, the 'Hawks employed a three-deep zone with four or five underneath droppers stretched across the field. With Seattle's cornerbacks adept at employing press and press-bail techniques on the outside, the team is able to essentially play a matchup man defense that eliminates the deep ball and limits yards after the catch.

The Seahawks are known for their aggressive press-coverage tactics on the perimeter, but the team routinely employed a three-deep zone against the Broncos to effectively cover the variety of crossing routes utilized by the NFL's No. 1 offense. Instead of running across the field while attempting to avoid picks and rubs by receivers, the underneath defenders used "spot drops" (defenders drop to designated landmarks, with their eyes fixed on the quarterback) and essentially passed off the crossers. In addition, the Seahawks added an underneath defender by regularly dropping McDaniel into the "low hole" from his defensive tackle spot.

This was particularly effective against the Broncos' empty formations because it allowed the Seahawks to match up with the five eligible receivers while maintaining deep coverage with the corners and deep-middle safety.

While the Seahawks do attack opponents with a variety of blitz-man pressures, their bread-and-butter coverage is Cover 1-Robber. The Seahawks will position a safety in the deep middle to take away the home-run ball while employing the other safety as a robber in the intermediate area. Chancellor typically plays the role of the robber, with his size, speed and physicality making him an ideal defender to smash crossing routes or attack the line of scrimmage against the run.

There's some nice analysis. It's worth a read.

 

[Joker]

that was well worth the read, mayo...thanks

 

[Ring 6]

Nice breakdown from Bucky Brooks of the all-22 film looking at Seattle's tactics against Denver in the SB:

Seattle Seahawks walloped Denver Broncos with simple scheme - NFL.com

A couple of excerpts:









There's some nice analysis. It's worth a read.

There was a play where Welker ran a crossing pattern, probably at about 15 yards. Chancellor hit him as the ball arrived and broke it up.
They replayed it and Chancellor was covering another receiver in his zone, who also crossed. He left him, and picked up Welker. He did what you are taught in the 8th grade playing zone defense (which 90% of high school players never get right) he had his head on a swivel and not only covered the man in his zone, but saw the man entering his zone. Chancellor looked like he made that adjustment 1,000,000 times. THAT is why he is a great safety.

 

[captain stone]

I know exactly the play you mention; that was textbook middle-zone technique, perfectly
executed, and finished with physicality. It was beautiful to watch, in it's own way.