Brady, the OL and the OC

[the wrothbroughterer]

did you see how dominant the jets oline was yesterday? that's the kind of oline you need to win, not this country boy oline bs that the pats have. there is a reason why our running game sucks. and part of the reason why brady struggled this year is because he's not getting time. he is being rushed into making bad decisions. we simply cannot continue to have the same oline year after year.

light- he's been with the team since 2001. he played well but his time has come. maybe another year but major upgrade needed here.

koppen- still only 30 but not that athletic

kaczur - lol

neal - could be gone after this year.

mankins- only 27. should keep around.

vollmer - keep

replacements should be made at center, LT, and guard (neal's spot). they just need to have nastier players up front. the line has no attitude anymore.

Could the mediocrity of the running game perhaps be a function of bad running backs? The only competition that Maroney had for playing time for the majority of the year was Ben-Jarvus Green-Ellis and he still couldn't top 200 carries this year. Kevin Faulk has never been used as an every down back, Fred Taylor played in 6 games, and Morris in 12. Despite all that, the Pats still finished in the top half of the NFL in Rushing Offense. With a reliable RB and the same squad there is no reason to think they couldn't have been in the top quarter of rushing teams.

I'm sure you've got solid ground to stand on when talking about the "attitude" of our O-Line, too. Do you regularly attend practices or are these the musings of an armchair GM?

Football Outsiders had the Patritos O-Line as the 2nd best pass blocking unit and the 5th best run blocking unit. There are certainly question marks with some players but year in and year out the Pats have one of the best lines in football and this year was no different.

Also, statistically the Patriots rushing game was best when running up the middle. How can Koppen be an issue when the team is most productive running up his ass?

 

[emoney_33]

Could the mediocrity of the running game perhaps be a function of bad running backs? The only competition that Maroney had for playing time for the majority of the year was Ben-Jarvus Green-Ellis and he still couldn't top 200 carries this year. Kevin Faulk has never been used as an every down back, Fred Taylor played in 6 games, and Morris in 12. Despite all that, the Pats still finished in the top half of the NFL in Rushing Offense. With a reliable RB and the same squad there is no reason to think they couldn't have been in the top quarter of rushing teams.

I'm sure you've got solid ground to stand on when talking about the "attitude" of our O-Line, too. Do you regularly attend practices or are these the musings of an armchair GM?

Football Outsiders had the Patritos O-Line as the 2nd best pass blocking unit and the 5th best run blocking unit. There are certainly question marks with some players but year in and year out the Pats have one of the best lines in football and this year was no different.

Also, statistically the Patriots rushing game was best when running up the middle. How can Koppen be an issue when the team is most productive running up his ass?

Good post. Now I may be completely wrong here but I don't think BB -wants- a single RB getting 20+ carries a game. I think after Dillon's breakdown in '05 following his monster year, BB made the shift to split carries and keep the backs healthy. Also since this team has such a great passing attack, it makes sense not to put so much into a single running back.

I may be wrong and he may just not have found the right back, but that's what it looks like from way out here.

 

[Brady2Welker]

NFL Game Center: Baltimore Ravens at New England Patriots - 2009 Wild Card Weekend

starting at 0:36... ahh it's all Brady's fault, that bum!

Light got beat. Badly.

Nothing short of a hold could stop Suggs from getting a sack.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Could the mediocrity of the running game perhaps be a function of bad running backs? The only competition that Maroney had for playing time for the majority of the year was Ben-Jarvus Green-Ellis and he still couldn't top 200 carries this year. Kevin Faulk has never been used as an every down back, Fred Taylor played in 6 games, and Morris in 12. Despite all that, the Pats still finished in the top half of the NFL in Rushing Offense. With a reliable RB and the same squad there is no reason to think they couldn't have been in the top quarter of rushing teams.

I'm sure you've got solid ground to stand on when talking about the "attitude" of our O-Line, too. Do you regularly attend practices or are these the musings of an armchair GM?

Football Outsiders had the Patritos O-Line as the 2nd best pass blocking unit and the 5th best run blocking unit. There are certainly question marks with some players but year in and year out the Pats have one of the best lines in football and this year was no different.

Also, statistically the Patriots rushing game was best when running up the middle. How can Koppen be an issue when the team is most productive running up his ass?

when i see guys closing in on brady before he gets his feet set it's an oline problem. if you want to bring up stats, then look at maroney's avg yards per carry. it's gone down as a whole since 2006 but the number of attempts has gone up. what's the problem????? it's an older and less athletic oline. being in the top half in rushing offense is unacceptable. you need to be much higher to really compete for the SB. also, when i mean "attitude" i don't mean they are randy moss types. i mean they have to be nastier and more edgy. Age will make people less fearless than they used to.

i'm looking at next year's schedule and we have major problem. just look at the schedule...indy, pitt, minn, etc. brady will get killed behind that oline of ours. the dude only has 4-5 years left to play in the league and that's if he's protected well. one more knee injury like he had in 08 will mean his career. i'll be honest...8-8 if we are lucky.

i know you are trying to find ways for the pats to get back to the SB next year but that is way unlikely. i'm sorry but that's just the reality. the team has been gutted over the past 5 seasons both in terms of coaching and players. and the players we have lost have not been adequately replaced through the draft.

 

[emoney_33]

Light got beat. Badly.

Nothing short of a hold could stop Suggs from getting a sack.

Exactly, but some posters want you to believe it was Brady's fault.

 

[the wrothbroughterer]

Good post. Now I may be completely wrong here but I don't think BB -wants- a single RB getting 20+ carries a game. I think after Dillon's breakdown in '05 following his monster year, BB made the shift to split carries and keep the backs healthy. Also since this team has such a great passing attack, it makes sense not to put so much into a single running back.

I may be wrong and he may just not have found the right back, but that's what it looks like from way out here.

Yeah they have been working under the philosophy of splitting the carries which if it works is great because its cheaper and keeps players fresh, but I don't think that their experiment has been really successful. Their RB corps seems to be hurt fairly regularly and the backs that have been healthy aren't that good. If they did have a feature back to run in there, I think that we would see a return of that "step on their throat" running game that was a staple of the 2004 championship team.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's fascinating to read all these posts and realize that people, in general, absolutely refuse to learn from past mistakes. Last season, after Brady went down, Matt Cassel was getting hit as if he was the unwilling guest at a pinata party. Then, after he'd gotten some game experience and Neal had gotten healthy, the sack totals plummeted. Nonetheless, people still crack out the bull about the 2007 Super Bowl game and how Neal wouldn't have made a difference.

This year, Patriots fans were treated to a Brady with limited mobility and a fear/hesitation when it came to running the ball. His pocket mobility was clearly affected, and his pocket awareness in general was obviously not up to his pre-injury standards. Most of this came as no surprise to anyone with a semblance of a brain. Yet, somehow, everything is the fault of the line and the scheme, and none of it is because Brady wasn't back to 100% of being Brady. I look forward to the day when people realize that quarterback play impacts offensive line play and play calling, just as offensive line play and play calling impacts quarterback play. These things are intertwined, not compartmentalized.

 

[emoney_33]

This year, Patriots fans were treated to a Brady with limited mobility and a fear/hesitation when it came to running the ball. His pocket mobility was clearly affected, and his pocket awareness in general was obviously not up to his pre-injury standards. Most of this came as no surprise to anyone with a semblance of a brain. Yet, somehow, everything is the fault of the line and the scheme, and none of it is because Brady wasn't back to 100% of being Brady. I look forward to the day when people realize that quarterback play impacts offensive line play and play calling, just as offensive line play and play calling impacts quarterback play. These things are intertwined, not compartmentalized.

Neither the OL nor Brady were particularly bad this year. The LACK of a #2 wideout was the "issue" on offense.

Brady: 18 sacks (lowest of career)
Brady: 65.7 completion % (2nd best of career)

If Brady had any issues with pocket awareness this year, it wasn't an impact on the overall offense performance. Not to mention the difficult pass schedule, which some people pretend doesn't exist. This offense had a GOOD year.

 

[SanAngeloState]

Light and Kaczur would both be better off as guards. My opinion anyway.

I think theh problem is Moss. Brady is waiting for him to get open. Just loves throwing to him. Only problem is a lot of his patterns take a while to develop. How do I know Brady loves throwing to him? Because he often throws it to him even if he is double covered, which makes no sense to me as the completion then is about 10%, I'd guess.

It's the perils of having a superstar WR, I guess. Your QB has the need to try to force it to him too much.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I'm not saying Brady was on his A+ game and had no flaws this year, but The Suggs play was not indicative of any longstanding problem throughout the year. Brady has in effect been strip sacked in the past. He definitely was a bit rusty coming off of the rehab year, but it wasn't an issue, he still played very well considering. If his awareness were actually a terrible problem, he wouldn't have had the lowest sack total of his career while posting the 2nd highest comp % of his career.

Brady was good, I agree. But he wasn't what he was. When on top of his game, Brady is good enough to cover alot of the deficiencies on offense, whether it be protection or lack of WR talent. If anything, it's a testament to how good Brady was pre-injury making the offense work with lesser weapons, especially in '06. Other than a few moments in '07 where Brady was able to sit back and defenders couldn't breathe on him, the OL was never a whole lot better than it was this year IMO. It just seemed that way with all the other problems we had on offense.

 

[emoney_33]

Light and Kaczur would both be better off as guards. My opinion anyway.

I think theh problem is Moss. Brady is waiting for him to get open. Just loves throwing to him. Only problem is a lot of his patterns take a while to develop. How do I know Brady loves throwing to him? Because he often throws it to him even if he is double covered, which makes no sense to me as the completion then is about 10%, I'd guess.

It's the perils of having a superstar WR, I guess. Your QB has the need to try to force it to him too much.

Supposedly he forces it to Moss too much, yet at the same time has the lowest sack total of his career while having the 2nd best statistical year in every other category including completion %. I suppose if it were "hurting" him as you claim, the numbers might have indicated that, but they do not.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

It's fascinating to read all these posts and realize that people, in general, absolutely refuse to learn from past mistakes. Last season, after Brady went down, Matt Cassel was getting hit as if he was the unwilling guest at a pinata party. Then, after he'd gotten some game experience and Neal had gotten healthy, the sack totals plummeted. Nonetheless, people still crack out the bull about the 2007 Super Bowl game and how Neal wouldn't have made a difference.

This year, Patriots fans were treated to a Brady with limited mobility and a fear/hesitation when it came to running the ball. His pocket mobility was clearly affected, and his pocket awareness in general was obviously not up to his pre-injury standards. Most of this came as no surprise to anyone with a semblance of a brain. Yet, somehow, everything is the fault of the line and the scheme, and none of it is because Brady wasn't back to 100% of being Brady. I look forward to the day when people realize that quarterback play impacts offensive line play and play calling, just as offensive line play and play calling impacts quarterback play. These things are intertwined, not compartmentalized.

maybe you are right but the oline will be a year older and less athletic next year, that is if changes aren't made. If you keep the same players year after year, opponents will figure out how to beat you.

 

[emoney_33]

Brady was good, I agree. But he wasn't what he was. When on top of his game, Brady is good enough to cover alot of the deficiencies on offense, whether it be protection or lack of WR talent. If anything, it's a testament to how good Brady was pre-injury making the offense work with lesser weapons, especially in '06. Other than a few moments in '07 where Brady was able to sit back and defenders couldn't breathe on him, the OL was never a whole lot better than it was this year IMO. It just seemed that way with all the other problems we had on offense.

2006 was quite a pitiful year receiving wise. The top 3 'receivers' in 2006 had an astonishingly bad 57% catch rate!

What Brady did in 2006 was nothing short of miraculous, and 2007 was vindication as he got weapons and exploded for records.

 

[Kontradiction]

It's fascinating to read all these posts and realize that people, in general, absolutely refuse to learn from past mistakes. Last season, after Brady went down, Matt Cassel was getting hit as if he was the unwilling guest at a pinata party. Then, after he'd gotten some game experience and Neal had gotten healthy, the sack totals plummeted. Nonetheless, people still crack out the bull about the 2007 Super Bowl game and how Neal wouldn't have made a difference.

This year, Patriots fans were treated to a Brady with limited mobility and a fear/hesitation when it came to running the ball. His pocket mobility was clearly affected, and his pocket awareness in general was obviously not up to his pre-injury standards. Most of this came as no surprise to anyone with a semblance of a brain. Yet, somehow, everything is the fault of the line and the scheme, and none of it is because Brady wasn't back to 100% of being Brady. I look forward to the day when people realize that quarterback play impacts offensive line play and play calling, just as offensive line play and play calling impacts quarterback play. These things are intertwined, not compartmentalized.

I tend to put some of the blame on Brady's pocket awareness and some of the blame on the O-Line. These things work together. For instance, Neal at the beginning of the year made that right side of the line virtually inpenetrable. After injury and insertion of Connolly, the right side line play fell. At the very least, the RG position should be upgraded. And yes, I do believe that Brady's pocket presence needs to improve. IMO, a year of playing time along with the addition of a third WR not named Sam Aiken should help this. People should realize that this team, specifically the offense though, fell apart at times due to a variety of reasons and not just a single reason.

 

[alvinnf]

Maybe we could run the ball!

 

[Deus Irae]

I tend to put some of the blame on Brady's pocket awareness and some of the blame on the O-Line. These things work together. For instance, Neal at the beginning of the year made that right side of the line virtually inpenetrable. After injury and insertion of Connolly, the right side line play fell. At the very least, the RG position should be upgraded. And yes, I do believe that Brady's pocket presence needs to improve. IMO, a year of playing time along with the addition of a third WR not named Sam Aiken should help this. People should realize that this team, specifically the offense though, fell apart at times due to a variety of reasons and not just a single reason.

Absolutely, and this is where film work and breakdown will be so important. None of us is likely to sit back and time each dropback Brady had in order to count how long he had to throw, but someone over at Gillette will do that. How much of the line's problems were on injury, how much on Brady, how much on each player and how much on a lack of cohesion? All of that will need to be looked at so that a solid plan can be put together moving forward. The hope is that the Patriots front office is far less myopic than many of the team's fans seem to be.

 

[SanAngeloState]

Supposedly he forces it to Moss too much, yet at the same time has the lowest sack total of his career while having the 2nd best statistical year in every other category including completion %. I suppose if it were "hurting" him as you claim, the numbers might have indicated that, but they do not.

Yeah he does. I'm right. He had Welker as a dump off, but if he had 3 good receivers or a TE in there too, and didn't stare down Moss, it would be better. He does stare down Moss way too much.

 

[emoney_33]

Yeah he does. I'm right. He had Welker as a dump off, but if he had 3 good receivers or a TE in there too, and didn't stare down Moss, it would be better. He does stare down Moss way too much.

I agree completely that it benefits the team to have 3 good receivers in the lineup. What I disagree with is the idea that Brady -hurt- the team by "looking down Moss" unnecessarily this year.

The wideout opposite Moss had a catch percentage of 35% (Galloway) and then 48% (Aiken). Aiken was -always- covered, because he can't get separation. So why would Brady throw to a covered Aiken, when he has HOF Moss and pro-bowl Welker? If we had a good #2 wideout, then I am sure Brady would have thrown more that way.

It's not like Brady was forcing it so much that he threw too many incompletions (Best comp % aside from 2007) or that he threw too many INT (best TD-INT ratio aside from 2007)

 

[Jimke]

I agree completely that it benefits the team to have 3 good receivers in the lineup. What I disagree with is the idea that Brady -hurt- the team by "looking down Moss" unnecessarily this year.

The wideout opposite Moss had a catch percentage of 35% (Galloway) and then 48% (Aiken). Aiken was -always- covered, because he can't get separation. So why would Brady throw to a covered Aiken, when he has HOF Moss and pro-bowl Welker? If we had a good #2 wideout, then I am sure Brady would have thrown more that way.

It's not like Brady was forcing it so much that he threw too many incompletions (Best comp % aside from 2007) or that he threw too many INT (best TD-INT ratio aside from 2007)

One of BB's early mistakes was deciding not to re-sign Jabar Gaffney.
He took the cheap route by trading for Greg Lewis and signing Joey
Galloway. Both Lewis and Galloway were duds. This is why Aiken
had to play wide receiver. Aiken had 28 catches in 7 years at Miami.
The Patriots need wide receivers who can get open and catch the ball.

 

[emoney_33]

One of BB's early mistakes was deciding not to re-sign Jabar Gaffney.
He took the cheap route by trading for Greg Lewis and signing Joey
Galloway. Both Lewis and Galloway were duds. This is why Aiken
had to play wide receiver. Aiken had 28 catches in 7 years at Miami.
The Patriots need wide receivers who can get open and catch the ball.

Although at the time the Lewis and Galloway deals didn't look too bad, it would have helped tremendously to have Gaffney still on the team. This offseason, they simply cannot fail in that department especially with Welker's unkown status